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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
The ruling in is. Chalk another one up for the good guys
Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington TimesA Colorado judge ruled Friday against a bakery owner who refused to prepare a cake for a gay couple’s wedding reception.

Administrative Law Judge Robert N. Spencer ordered Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, to “cease and desist from discriminating against complainants and other same-sex couples by refusing to sell them wedding cakes or any other product [he] would provide to heterosexual couples.”


Read more: Colorado judge: Bakery owner discriminated against gay couple - Washington Times
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Another ruling that bigotry will no longer be tolerated in America. If this baker is truly concerned about his religious beliefs....perhaps he should start by trying to be more "Christ-like" and try living the principles that Jesus Christ taught.
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This is not a victory for the good guys but more BS from the thought police advocates.

Bigotry is and will be tolerated in peoples private affairs because they have the right to be.

If one is a public servant working for government then such rules may apply but private business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

Besides this is rather like the idiots who support socialized medicine. Why would you wish a doctor to treat you with a gun to his head? One " accidental " slip of the scapel and guess what?

Basically the same logic applies here. The guy is making baked goods for people to eat and you want to force him to do so? Think some gay couples might now get the worst cakes the guy ever baked? Or maybe one with a little urine in it?

The smarter move would have been to boycott or even advertise against him and let the market work.

Neither you nor this baker have a monopoly on understanding christian principles they are fairly subjective and he has the right to live within his interpretation of them just as you do. Although his are probably more accurate to the teachings of the book which christians believe in.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Soupnazi630 said:
This is not a victory for the good guys but more BS from the thought police advocates.

Bigotry is and will be tolerated in peoples private affairs because they have the right to be.

If one is a public servant working for government then such rules may apply but private business has every right to refuse service to anyone.

Besides this is rather like the idiots who support socialized medicine. Why would you wish a doctor to treat you with a gun to his head? One " accidental " slip of the scapel and guess what?

Basically the same logic applies here. The guy is making baked goods for people to eat and you want to force him to do so? Think some gay couples might now get the worst cakes the guy ever baked? Or maybe one with a little urine in it?

The smarter move would have been to boycott or even advertise against him and let the market work.

Neither you nor this baker have a monopoly on understanding christian principles they are fairly subjective and he has the right to live within his interpretation of them just as you do. Although his are probably more accurate to the teachings of the book which christians believe in.
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I don't know what country you are living in, but people in America are NOT free to refuse service to people, our Constitution prevents against that.
Don't like it? Then don't open a business. Or better yet, try living a true "Christlike" life rather than the perverted versions of "Christianity" that are mostly devoid of Jesus Christ...and are more concerned with politics and promoting a radical right-wing agenda.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
So in other words, you are fine with white restaurant owners refusing to serve blacks, you are fine with "White only" drinking fountains and having certain areas of theaters where people of color are allowed to sit and where they aren't allowed. Gotcha. Sorry...but that isn't America, my friend.
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I think that non-incorporated businesses should be perfectly free to be whites only, blacks only, or just about anything else they want to be.

Most of them would be vile and reprehensible, and I'd hope that they'd quickly starve for business, but I think that they should be free to run their affairs as seems best to them.

And you're wrong of course, for most of our history that was America. It still is in a lot of places, people are just sneakier about it.

Liberty should be the standard that we deviate from only with compelling, not merely desirable motivation. Accepting less will sooner or later make slaves of us all, since at each step we'll be told, have been told that it's all "for the best."
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
I don't know what country you are living in, but people in America are NOT free to refuse service to people, our Constitution prevents against that.
Don't like it? Then don't open a business. Or better yet, try living a true "Christlike" life rather than the perverted versions of "Christianity" that are mostly devoid of Jesus Christ...and are more concerned with politics and promoting a radical right-wing agenda.
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In America we are absolutely permitted to refuse private services to other people and are constitution prevents no such thing in any way shape or form. The constitution is all about protecting individual rights and no one has the right to patronize a specific private business but those said businesses do have the right to turn down business ( even if it is stupid to turn down someones money for a legitimate trade).

You obviously have never read the constitution or for that matter taken note of signs in resteraunts and motels etc which read " We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone ". The consitution is about controlling and restricting government NOT people and their privatebusiness affairs.


You do not have a read of fix on what real christianity is and neither does the baker your version is as perverted as his.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Oftencold said:
I think that non-incorporated businesses should be perfectly free to be whites only, blacks only, or just about anything else they want to be.

Most of them would be vile and reprehensible, and I'd hope that they'd quickly starve for business, but I think that they should be free to run their affairs as seems best to them.

And you're wrong of course, for most of our history that was America. It still is in a lot of places, people are just sneakier about it.

Liberty should be the standard that we deviate from only with compelling, not merely desirable motivation. Accepting less will sooner or later make slaves of us all, since at each step we'll be told, have been told that it's all "for the best."
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What's troubling is that so many people today see government as some paternalistic "they" who know what's best for us and who are content with that.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

nota bene said:
What's troubling is that so many people today see government as some paternalistic "they" who know what's best for us and who are content with that.
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Very true.

The OP actually seems to think such language is in the constitution
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Soupnazi630 said:
In America we are absolutely permitted to refuse private services to other people and are constitution prevents no such thing in any way shape or form. The constitution is all about protecting individual rights and no one has the right to patronize a specific private business but those said businesses do have the right to turn down business ( even if it is stupid to turn down someones money for a legitimate trade).

You obviously have never read the constitution or for that matter taken note of signs in resteraunts and motels etc which read " We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone ". The consitution is about controlling and restricting government NOT people and their privatebusiness affairs.


You do not have a read of fix on what real christianity is and neither does the baker your version is as perverted as his.
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LOL....well sir....you are just plain and simply wrong. The US Constitution does not permit private businesses to discriminate. This is exactly what prevent private restaurant owners from refusing to serve black customers at their lunch counters....and it is what prevents Bakers from using their bigotry to refuse service to gay couples. Sorry....thats just the way it is. While America allows for anyone to hold whatever personal bigoted views they want, America does not allow people to use religion as a shield to impose their bigoted views on the public.

I love the fact that you try to argue that placing a silly sign inside a business allows one to disregard the Constitution. Those signs don't mean squat. If they did, don't you think a number of white business owners would have put those signs in the restaurants so that they didn't have to "violate" their own moral views and could refuse service to black patrons?....too funny.

As far as "Real Christianity". I know what Christ taught....and most so called "Christian" religions are so far away from the teachings of Jesus Christ these days, that Jesus himself wouldn't even recognize their doctrine. .but absolutely....they are free to preach whatever they want...and on a personal level....they can live their own personal lives any way they want....but if they want to operate a business, they must do so within the confines of our Constitution. They cannot use their religion as a shield to impose their bigotry on the public. Sorry man.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Was it "bullying" digs...to force bigoted restaurant owners into serving blacks? Bigotry in the name of religion is still bigotry.
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No one should be forced to serve anyone regardless of the so-called law.

I would have baked these fruitcakes a wedding cake they would have remembered for a long time after their so-called wedding.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
LOL....well sir....you are just plain and simply wrong. The US Constitution does not permit private businesses to discriminate. This is exactly what prevent private restaurant owners from refusing to serve black customers at their lunch counters....and it is what prevents Bakers from using their bigotry to refuse service to gay couples. Sorry....thats just the way it is. While America allows for anyone to hold whatever personal bigoted views they want, America does not allow people to use religion as a shield to impose their bigoted views on the public.

I love the fact that you try to argue that placing a silly sign inside a business allows one to disregard the Constitution. Those signs don't mean squat. If they did, don't you think a number of white business owners would have put those signs in the restaurants so that they didn't have to "violate" their own moral views and could refuse service to black patrons?....too funny.

As far as "Real Christianity". I know what Christ taught....and most so called "Christian" religions are so far away from the teachings of Jesus Christ these days, that Jesus himself wouldn't even recognize their doctrine. .but absolutely....they are free to preach whatever they want...and on a personal level....they can live their own personal lives any way they want....but if they want to operate a business, they must do so within the confines of our Constitution. They cannot use their religion as a shield to impose their bigotry on the public. Sorry man.
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I am absolutely correct and there is nothing in the constituion you can quote forbidding such practices.

Refusing to do business with someone is not imposing your view on them. Taking them to court and forcing them to conduct business IS imposing your view on them.

The racial segregation in the south was more the result of state laws requiring segregation which is just as bad as forbidding it. They forbade racial discrimination but not in terms of refusing service. basically is I run a resteraunt I can not order blacks to sit in a certain spot but I can tell them to leave I do not want their money.

Conducting your private affairs ( and business is private ) with whoever you choose is protected by the constitution even if it is for stupid reasons you cannot quote a clause which states otherwise.


Once again you seem to confuse that the constitution is about restricting government not people.

The signs I refer to which claim mean squat are a statement of personal rights and mean exactly what they say.

I daresay you know little like most christians about what christ taught and part of the evidence for this is that it is you wishing to impose your view of christianity on others the baker did not.

Unlike those you support he was practicing and living within the confines of our constitution.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Texmex said:
No one should be forced to serve anyone regardless of the so-called law.

I would have baked these fruitcakes a wedding cake they would have remembered for a long time after their so-called wedding.
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You are certainly entitled to your bigoted views. That is what is great about America.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Christ himself never spoke on the subject...and many Christian religions are not against the idea, although many are. Regardless...you cannot hide behind religion as an excuse for bigotry. That is exactly what this Court said. If you choose to do business in this country, you have to comply with the laws of this land. You cannot use your religion as a shield to promote your bigotry and decide who you want to allow to patronize your business. This is the same ruling that prevented bigoted restaurant owners from refusing to serve blacks, just because they believed it violated their perverted version of "morality".
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The sad thing about your argument is that no one at any point could cite a Bible verse to support their belief that black people were inferior to whites. However, there are many Bible verses that state that homosexuality is wrong. That's the difference and that's where people such as these bakery owners have ground to stand on. Comparing racial discrimination against this is apples to oranges IMO.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
You are certainly entitled to your bigoted views. That is what is great about America.
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And you are entitled to conduct your private business in accordance with those views. To include discriminating in who you conduct business with.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Soupnazi630 said:
I am absolutely correct and there is nothing in the constituion you can quote forbidding such practices.

Refusing to do business with someone is not imposing your view on them. Taking them to court and forcing them to conduct business IS imposing your view on them.

The racial segregation in the south was more the result of state laws requiring segregation which is just as bad as forbidding it. They forbade racial discrimination but not in terms of refusing service. basically is I run a resteraunt I can not order blacks to sit in a certain spot but I can tell them to leave I do not want their money.

Conducting your private affairs ( and business is private ) with whoever you choose is protected by the constitution even if it is for stupid reasons you cannot quote a clause which states otherwise.


Once again you seem to confuse that the constitution is about restricting government not people.

The signs I refer to which claim mean squat are a statement of personal rights and mean exactly what they say.

I daresay you know little like most christians about what christ taught and part of the evidence for this is that it is you wishing to impose your view of christianity on others the baker did not.

Unlike those you support he was practicing and living within the confines of our constitution.
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Sorry...but you couldn't be more wrong. Which is exactly why this court ruled the way it did...and more and more courts are striking down bigotry.

As far as the teachings of Christ...I know more than you would seem to believe. I have studied the life of Jesus Christ extensively and I know his teachings well. One of the main teachings of Jesus Christ stands completely opposed to the actions of this Baker and the other bigots who would follow his path. "Inasmuch as ye have done it onto one of the least of these, my bretheren, you have done it unto me". This Baker should try to be more "Christlike" and less whatever the word "Christian" means these days.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Soupnazi630 said:
And you are entitled to conduct your private business in accordance with those views. To include discriminating in who you conduct business with.
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Nope. You are simply wrong. Sorry.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

MarineTpartier said:
The sad thing about your argument is that no one at any point could cite a Bible verse to support their belief that black people were inferior to whites. However, there are many Bible verses that state that homosexuality is wrong. That's the difference and that's where people such as these bakery owners have ground to stand on. Comparing racial discrimination against this is apples to oranges IMO.
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What are you talking about? The Bible is FULL of instances of people treating other people as being "inferior" to them. Regardless, our Constitution is not founded on what the Bible says...so whatever "Ground" you claim that the bigots have to stand on is "groundless."
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Gaugingcatenate said:
1. Dude, you are the one arguing the case from that side, not me... so either stick to your side or cave if you are unwilling to stand by your arguments.

2. I posit that the Colorado law is unconstitutional in this instance... I am in no manner required to trust in what some liberal Colorado judge decides, especially when it goes directly in contradiction to one of our original and guaranteed rights. If those in Colorado want to amend the US Constitution... well, they will just have to go about it in the prescribed manners. Until then their laws in this area are total bunkum.

3. See 2 above

4. See 2 above

5. See 2 above.

Listen, don't know if you have really thought this out at all, but whether you like it or not this is going to be at the expense of one side or the other. There is no win win... and it appears you want gay rights to win over all others. Religious rights trump, sorry, they just do. Now, if this were the only baker in Colorado, maybe we could have an actual debate over the matter... but to sue to force these folks to go against their stated religious principles is a complete travesty and, I would suspect, an agenda driven move to intimidate others.

Did I ever ask the "religious beliefs of the customers"? What would be the relevance of that, exactly? They can pick and choose who they want to based on whatever their criteria might be... as long as who they choose accepts their commission to bake this special cake. If their religious beliefs don't match, they go someplace else. They would not in any way be forced to get their cake from that bakery or any other. Right? Apples and oranges.

Listen, I hope you don't charge for your consults, because you would owe me at this point...and perhaps have a malpractice suit. What it should have revealed is that I, as have others, have had just about enough with government telling me what I they think I MUST believe, by force of law. Your pop psychology assessment, tho, does tell us a lot about you. In the end, I think I would say take your juvenile pablum, that you might actually be able to persuade others as mimicking actual intelligence, elsewhere please... I am in no need such libertarian pseudo-psychological analysis.

What a laugh there guy, do you actually read what you write? :lamo

.
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Thank you for proving my point.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
What are you talking about? The Bible is FULL of instances of people treating other people as being "inferior" to them. Regardless, our Constitution is not founded on what the Bible says...so whatever "Ground" you claim that the bigots have to stand on is "groundless."
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Okay bro. Cite the verse where it is stated that black people are inferior to white people. I'll wait.....:coffeepap
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Sorry...but you couldn't be more wrong. Which is exactly why this court ruled the way it did...and more and more courts are striking down bigotry.

As far as the teachings of Christ...I know more than you would seem to believe. I have studied the life of Jesus Christ extensively and I know his teachings well. One of the main teachings of Jesus Christ stands completely opposed to the actions of this Baker and the other bigots who would follow his path. "Inasmuch as ye have done it onto one of the least of these, my bretheren, you have done it unto me". This Baker should try to be more "Christlike" and less whatever the word "Christian" means these days.
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The courts and the constitution are two different things. Legislating from thebench is one person dictating to others without regard to constitional law. This is a problem In this country we need to stop.

I notice you never provided a quote from the constitution which forbids private business from discriminating. This is because you cannot because it does not.

The court did not strike down bigotry the baker is still a bigot.

Your quote from the bible rests on a presumption that everyone to include these two gay men are christs brethren. Thats why it doesnot apply to this argument.

You should be more christ like as well and stand against people using the courts as a bludgeon to force someone to do what they wish.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

MarineTpartier said:
Okay bro. Cite the verse where it is stated that black people are inferior to white people. I'll wait.....:coffeepap
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I didn't say that....I said that the Bible is full of instances in which people treat other people as inferior to them.....going all the way back to Exodus......
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
What are you talking about? The Bible is FULL of instances of people treating other people as being "inferior" to them. Regardless, our Constitution is not founded on what the Bible says...so whatever "Ground" you claim that the bigots have to stand on is "groundless."
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I believe his post stated the biblemakes no mention of black people being inferior that is much more specific than your response.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Soupnazi630 said:
The courts and the constitution are two different things. Legislating from thebench is one person dictating to others without regard to constitional law. This is a problem In this country we need to stop.

I notice you never provided a quote from the constitution which forbids private business from discriminating. This is because you cannot because it does not.

The court did not strike down bigotry the baker is still a bigot.

Your quote from the bible rests on a presumption that everyone to include these two gay men are christs brethren. Thats why it doesnot apply to this argument.

You should be more christ like as well and stand against people using the courts as a bludgeon to force someone to do what they wish.
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Ever heard of "Equal Protection". ....yeah....probably not.

And are you seriously trying to claim that Christ would not view the two gay men as his bretheren? Wow.......just wow........
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
I didn't say that....I said that the Bible is full of instances in which people treat other people as inferior to them.....going all the way back to Exodus......
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So what? What's that have to do with your argument? So what you're saying is that everything in the Bible is capable of being cited by Christians as justification for any bad behavior? There's murder in the Bible as well. So I can go murder someone and cite the Bible?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

MarineTpartier said:
So what? What's that have to do with your argument? So what you're saying is that everything in the Bible is capable of being cited by Christians as justification for any bad behavior? There's murder in the Bible as well. So I can go murder someone and cite the Bible?
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Thats what some people try to claim...and my point exactly...and exactly why the Bible cannot be used as the foundation for the Constitution.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Ever heard of "Equal Protection". ....yeah....probably not.

And are you seriously trying to claim that Christ would not view the two gay men as his bretheren? Wow.......just wow........
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Equal protection under the law does not extend to equal service from private business and equal protection is not in the constitution.

I do not claim anything whatsoever about what the myth of jesus would think. Because he is myth.

But having said that yes the myth would not approve of gay men.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

MarineTpartier said:
So what? What's that have to do with your argument? So what you're saying is that everything in the Bible is capable of being cited by Christians as justification for any bad behavior? There's murder in the Bible as well. So I can go murder someone and cite the Bible?
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That is exactly what people do.
 
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