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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
I'd probably do the same, but would also recognize that this person has his beliefs and they should be respected unless he is causing harm. That's obviously not the case here.
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Unless the harm is not about the cake itself, but the harm of discrimination.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Grant said:
No thanks are necessary, Vesper, but thanks anyway!.

People should not be forced to do anything against their will and that should be clear to everyone. If it's not then the country is in real trouble.
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Grant personally I see what is happening to people who dare to say no to someone over moral convictions are being made out to be bigots and the left uses this to justify a need for anti-discrimination laws which is just another avenue in which those who seek government expansion over our lives. Take a look at those who advocate such "discrimination laws" and there you will find some of the most biggest supporters of big government we have on this forum called Debate Politics. At the onset they have no respect for our Constitution unless it personally benefits them, for if they did they would be able to recognize forcing someone to comply with discrimination laws when pertaining to business violates their property rights as well as their moral conscience related to religious freedom. The country is in real trouble because the Constitution has been allowed to be trampled and the consequences we are about to face because of the disrespect for the first principles we have yet to experience. Maybe it will take the consequences of so many unconstitutional laws to be experienced before the people wake up and discover what they allowed to be trampled indeed violated their own rights.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

year2late said:
Curious, do you think segregation at a private business is acceptable? Think "Whites Only" etc.
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No, i dont. But people arent forced to patronize businesses and you arent entitled to another mans business. If someone wants to run a business for white people only, they should be able to. Although that would be a pretty stupid business move.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

CriticalThought said:
Reductio ad absurdum is a legitimate form of argument provided it does not descend into a strawman.
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It descended into a strawman, as does the "Whites Only" argument
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

year2late said:
Unless the harm is not about the cake itself, but the harm of discrimination.
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What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Phil_Osophy said:
No, i dont. But people arent forced to patronize businesses and you arent entitled to another mans business. If someone wants to run a business for white people only, they should be able to. Although that would be a pretty stupid business move.
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It is hard for me to wrap my head around "whites only" or "blacks only" businesses being acceptable legally. I would like to think that we have come so far we do not need such laws, but I know that to be untrue.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

over 100 pages and nothing has changed lets go over the facts:

Owner chose to play in the public realm and open a public access business, this requires a licenses and has rules and laws that regulated it
Owner chose to break the law, commit a crime and make himself a criminal which has consequences


The judge actually let the criminal off easy,he didn't fine him or anything, he just gave him a cease and desist order.

So all the owner has to do is stop breaking the law, committing crimes, illegal discriminating and stop infringing on peoples rights, seems easy to me.

next time this dummy will think twice before breaking the law


heres some qoutes to the judges 13 page ruling

“The undisputed facts show that Respondents (Phillips) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage,” Judge Spencer wrote.

“Conceptually, [Mr. Phillips's] refusal to serve a same-sex couple due to religious objection to same-sex weddings is no different from refusing to serve a biracial couple because of religious objection to biracial marriage,” wrote Judge Spencer.

The order says the cake-maker must “cease and desist from discriminating” against gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.

“At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses,” Judge Spencer said in his written order. “This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are.”


I love when equal/human/civil rights wins over discrimination and bigotry and people who support bigotry and or discrimination freak out.

#EqualRightWinsAgain
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
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No, I am talking about harm to the society for accepting discrimination.

But frankly, I am more inclined to let them discriminate, but the shop owners also need to accept that their discrimination comes with consequences. One of those consequences would be freedom of speech- and that freedom of speech (alerting clients and future clients)may negatively affect that business.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
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What harm was caused by not allowing a black person into a white only restaraunt?

What harm was caused by forcing blacks to the back of the bus?

What harm was there in white only fountains?

If you think that separate but equal is a good policy, you might as well believe that Zeus makes lightning because your ideas are just as archaic.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
Grant personally I see what is happening to people who dare to say no to someone over moral convictions are being made out to be bigots and the left justifies a need for anti-discrimination laws which is just another avenue in which those who seek government expansion over our lives. Take a look at those who advocate such "discrimination laws" and there you will find some of the most biggest supporters of big government we have on this forum called Debate Politics. At the onset they have no respect for our Constitution unless it personally benefits them, for if they did they would be able to recognize forcing someone to comply with discrimination laws when pertaining to business violates their property rights as well as their moral conscience related to religious freedom. The country is in real trouble because the Constitution has been allowed to be trampled and the consequences we are about to face because of the disrespect for the first principles we have yet to experience. Maybe it will take the consequences of so many unconstitutional laws to be experienced before the people wake up and discover what they allowed to be trampled indeed violated their own rights.
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You nailed it, Vesper, and please understand that you are not alone in recognizing this movement. Millions of people everywhere are waking up to this craziness, and should before all personal freedoms disappear. The Founders recognized this potential for evil, designing the Constitution accordingly while George Orwell, as usual, summed it up nicely.

So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot.
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

year2late said:
It is hard for me to wrap my head around "whites only" or "blacks only" businesses being acceptable legally. I would like to think that we have come so far we do not need such laws, but I know that to be untrue.
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Thats because you believe that you are entitled to other peoples businesses and ultimately other peoples property.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
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What harm is caused by making a certain group of people sit in the back of a bus? Or denying them a seat at a restaurant?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
What harm was caused by not allowing a black person into a white only restaraunt?

What harm was caused by forcing blacks to the back of the bus?

What harm was there in white only fountains?

If you think that separate but equal is a good policy, you might as well believe that Zeus makes lightning because your ideas are just as archaic.
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Oh My! Are we back to that strawman nonsense again? Why not give it up and discuss the topic at hand?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Oh My! Are we back to that strawman nonsense again? Why not give it up and discuss the topic at hand?
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Here is where you are not getting it. Colorado law treats sexual orientation the same as race.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

year2late said:
No, I am talking about harm to the society for accepting discrimination.

But frankly, I am more inclined to let them discriminate, but the shop owners also need to accept that their discrimination comes with consequences. One of those consequences would be freedom of speech- and that freedom of speech (alerting clients and future clients)may negatively affect that business.
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exactly how it should be.

CriticalThought said:
What harm is caused by making a certain group of people sit in the back of a bus? Or denying them a seat at a restaurant?
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depends whos bus it is. Depends whos restaraunt it is.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Oh My! Are we back to that strawman nonsense again? Why not give it up and discuss the topic at hand?
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Because whether your archaic mind likes it or not, the discrimination is relatable.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
What harm was caused by not allowing a black person into a white only restaraunt?

What harm was caused by forcing blacks to the back of the bus?

What harm was there in white only fountains?

If you think that separate but equal is a good policy, you might as well believe that Zeus makes lightning because your ideas are just as archaic.
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BINGO!

but facts like this will be ignore the response will be is somehow that was different

its always funny watching posts get destroyed by facts though
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

CriticalThought said:
What harm is caused by making a certain group of people sit in the back of a bus? Or denying them a seat at a restaurant?
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Yes, yes, these guys were forced by law to sit at the back of the bus! It's about time the leftists went back to rape and murder for their witless analogies.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Henrin said:
Yes, I will tune in to the boy that's believes we are all slaves to the state and doesn't realize it.
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So in your mind....abiding by the law that says you cannot discriminate against people = slavery to the state?

So noted. Now everyone can understand why your posts are so out on the fringe here.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
Because whether your archaic mind likes it or not, the discrimination is relatable.
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see i called it, problem is nobody educated, honest and objective believes the lie that your examples are different, its laughable

its all equal/civil/ human rights and that fact cant be changed
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
Because whether your archaic mind likes it or not, the discrimination is relatable.
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Not being sold cake for religious reasons is the equivalent of slavery as well? Leftists are obviously doing the struggle, and deaths, for Black Liberation a great disservice but obviously are not intelligent enough to recognize it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Yes, yes, these guys were forced by law to sit at the back of the bus! It's about time the leftists went back to rape and murder for their witless analogies.
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Well let us look at it from this perspective. Had this been an interracial couple and the baker had denied them a wedding cake because he religiously felt that he could not support interracial marriages, would you have supported that as legitimate free exercise of religion?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

CriticalThought said:
Here is where you are not getting it. Colorado law treats sexual orientation the same as race.
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Maybe they were stoned when they drew that conclusion.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Sorry...but you are wrong. If you open your doors to the public as a business you have to comply with the Constitution and anti-discrimination laws. You might wish it were different....I'm sure that the bigoted restaurant owners that didn't want to serve blacks also wished it were different...but unfortunately for you and your ilk.....it isn't. Bigots cannot hide behind their religion as a shield to circumvent the law....so sorry.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Not being sold cake for religious reasons is the equivalent of slavery as well? Leftists are obviously doing the struggle, and deaths, for Black Liberation a great disservice but obviously are not intelligent enough to recognize it.
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Again I'm not comparing slavery I'm comparing the discrimination. The causes are different but he discrimination is relatable whether you like it or not.

you are just like those that were against interracial marriage. Both are archaic.
 
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