• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama: Flags To Be Flown At Half-Staff In Honor Of Nelson Mandela [W:382]

Bob Blaylock said:
This thread isn't about honoring “one of democracy's greatest leaders”; it's about honoring a murderous terrorist.
Click to expand...

You mean you wouldn't fight back? If you and your family were in the same position he and his were in, you'd sit down, shut up and just accept your position?
 
Anyone'd be pretty small-minded and petty to object to marking the passing of Nelson Mandela.
That, or too young to remember what apartheid was.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Mandela wasn't American, I see no reason why flags should be half mast.
Click to expand...

Is there any precedent for this? With a non-American I mean?
Click to expand...




The President of the USA, Barack Obama, said that the flags would be flown at half-staff, that's good enough for me.
 
Grand Mal said:
You mean you wouldn't fight back? If you and your family were in the same position he and his were in, you'd sit down, shut up and just accept your position?
Click to expand...

If by “fight back”, you mean torturing and murdering my neighbors, because I didn't think they were staunchly-enough on my side, then no, I would not “fight back” in such a manner.

If you mean anything other than that, by “fight back”, then it has no relevance to Mr. Mandela and those with whom he associated.
 
Carleen said:
He ended apartheid in South Africa. PPretty big accomplishment
Click to expand...

Whether that is true or not, he still made no significant contribution to America and thus our flag should not be lowered. Honor him or not all you wish. Hell, give him a Nobel prize. But we are not the world and our flag belongs to Americans.
 
Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Would have made no difference to US policy. The ANC were initially inspired by Ghandi's peaceful protest movement and the US had a major problem with its black population brewing.

It was politic for the US to turn a blind eye to segregation policy of the 1948 - 1960's in South Africa because that was exactly what was happening in the US at the same time. Even when the South African police killed over 50 unarmed protesters at Sharpeville there was no condemnation (although the US did vote against South Africa at the UN)

The ANC simply used or built relations with any force / movement or country that would support the cause of freedom for Africans and that did not include America.
Click to expand...

Before the 1970's the USA had no interest in Sub Sahara Africa. During the 40's and 50's most of Africa were still European colonies including South Africa which was still part of the British Commonwealth. Until the 1970's Africa was always Europe's problem not America's.

That would change when the Soviet Union turned their eyes towards Africa during the Cold War.

Get off this liberal believe every thing is black and white.

You also said >" freedom for Africans."< Again it seems your living in a black and white world. Are not Afrikaans also Africans or Libyans ? Anyone born on the continent of Africa is an African as anyone born in America is an American.
 
Objective Voice said:
Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
Click to expand...

I think Mandela deserves all the honors he can get and I support the president flying the flag at half staff. As for Thatcher, I think the president should have followed what was protocol up to that point of sending the VP to head the delegation from the United States if he was unable to attend her funeral. He didn't and that made him look petty. Part of the Vice Presidents job is to attend funerals of foreign leaders when the president can't attend. Or it was up to and until Thatcher.

But there is a difference between the two, Mandela is a world's icon. Thatcher was GB, US, and European Icon.
 
Kobie said:
South Africa remains the only nuclear state to have voluntarily given up its nuclear weapons.

You're going to have to do better than this, AR.
Click to expand...

That's right and do you know why they destroyed their nukes ? They saw the writing on the wall that the terrorist organization the ANC would be gaining control of the South African government. If you look at the incompetancy and corruption of the ANC even today, if they had those nukes they would have sold them to highest bidder probably Al Qaeda.
 
Objective Voice said:
Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa; and,

2) they view this presidential decree as a slight to Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England and a Conservative Leader, who recently passed away and clearly did not receive such presidential honors.

Judge him based on his past if you wish, but the way I see it if the world is in mourning over Mandela's death, how could the President of the United States not pay this foreign dignitary and icon of peace due respect? And since there clearly seems to be comparisons between paying tribute to Mandela and Thatcher, I'd like to know if folks who oppose this posthumous honor would be willing to produce comparative lists of what Mandela did not just for his people but for world peace compared to what Thatcher did. The only caveat: Leave Mandela's past out of it. Why? Because we already know of his actions as revolutionary. As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his crimes by spending 27 years in prison.

Let's see if folks are willing to be honest and then we can truthfully determine if Mandela deserves such worldly honors.
Click to expand...

I love how you do the mind reading thing. Unfortunately you're just not very good at it. Lowering our flag to half staff isn't for worldly honors, it is to honor someone who has made a significant contribution to OUR country, typically reserved for a countryman. We don't give out Congression Medals of Honor to folks from other militaries nor do we give out Medals of Freedom to non-Americans, no matter how much they forwarded the cause of freedom.

Again, if you want to honor him, do so. But not with something that doesn't fit. It's a cheap political move or just rank stupidity on our current president's part.
 
clownboy said:
I love how you do the mind reading thing. Unfortunately you're just not very good at it. Lowering our flag to half staff isn't for worldly honors, it is to honor someone who has made a significant contribution to OUR country, typically reserved for a countryman. We don't give out Congression Medals of Honor to folks from other militaries nor do we give out Medals of Freedom to non-Americans, no matter how much they forwarded the cause of freedom.

Again, if you want to honor him, do so. But not with something that doesn't fit. It's a cheap political move or just rank stupidity on our current president's part.
Click to expand...
As a Navy veteran who has performed many Honors Ceremonies, I could tell you you're wrong, but quoting regulations as this poster previous did on page one does the trick so much better.

Beaudreaux said:
Title 4 United States Code:
§ 7. Position and Manner of Display.
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day, the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a state, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.
Click to expand...
 
APACHERAT said:
Before the 1970's the USA had no interest in Sub Sahara Africa --
Click to expand...

LOL, never heard of Patrice Lumumba eh? The US was complicit as far back as 1961 and then the CIA spotted Mandela's farm and notified South African police before Mandela's trial in 1964.

Just wow for your naïveté.
 
winston53660 said:
Just curious who were we allied with in S Africa at the time?
Click to expand...

At what time ? Be specific.

Before 1961 South Africa was still part of the British Commonwealth so technically they were allies of the USA. During the 60's, 70's and most of the 80's it was the CIA who handled America's interest in Africa.

If you were around during the mid 70's through most of the 80's you may have remembered when the "New Left" in America got their panties all wadded up because "Soldier of Fortune" magazine was running advertisements to recruit mercenaries to fight communist terrorist in Africa.

In 1975 the United States was officially allied with South Africa and intervened in Angola to fight the Marxist FNLA who were backed by the Soviet Union and Cuban troops. South Africa was an ally of the West during the Cold War. This is why many in America and the UK opposed economic sanctions against South African at the time. They didn't support the South African NP government apartheid policies but there were Cold war proxy wars being fought at the time and many of them in Africa.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
LOL, never heard of Patrice Lumumba eh? The US was complicit as far back as 1961 and then the CIA spotted Mandela's farm and notified South African police before Mandela's trial in 1964.

Just wow for your naïveté.
Click to expand...

Do you think maybe Mandela was a communist terrorist ?
 
Carleen said:
He ended apartheid in South Africa. PPretty big accomplishment
Click to expand...

Again, how did he end it ? He was sitting in prison for over two decades when apartheid was ended. Are you saying that Nelson Mandela personally ordered the necklace murders of black Africans ?
 
Objective Voice said:
Those who are opposed to the President lowering the U.S. Flag at half mast in memory of Nelson Mandela's death are bitter because:

1) they judge him based on his past and not his accomplishment as the former President of South Africa;

.
Click to expand...

At least Nelson Mandela had a pass to be judged upon.

To bad Barack Obama doesn't have a pass to be judged upon.

Obama will be judged by his accomplishments as President. :lamo Which aren't many, mostly failures and lies and blaming others for all of his failures.
 
APACHERAT said:
Do you think maybe Mandela was a communist terrorist ?
Click to expand...

LOL no. Even if he was- he served his time in prison for it and the point of prison is generally a punishment.

All you and the others claiming Mandela was some evil commie terrorist will still claim that despite all the evidence against it. No matter that he rightly or wrongly was sent to prison for 27 years - it will never be enough punishment.

Hope you never committed any crimes lest you find the same attitude against you - whether you serve punishment or not.
 
Captain America said:
racist.gif


.........................

:lamo
Click to expand...

I thought the Jig was an Irish dance.:lol:
 
PICKENS, S.C. (AP) — Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said he won’t lower the flag outside his sheriff’s office to half-staff to honor Nelson Mandela because the South African civil rights leader was not a United States citizen.

Clark first announced his decision Friday on his Facebook page, writing “Nelson Mandela did great things for his country and was a brave man but he was not an AMERICAN!!!”

The sheriff confirmed his decision in several interviews Friday.

Clark said the sheriff’s office American flag was at half-staff Friday to honor a Florence County deputy killed in a wreck and Saturday for Pearl Harbor Day, but will fly at full staff on Sunday and Monday.

Sheriff In SC Won’t Honor Mandela « CBS Charlotte
 
j-mac said:
PICKENS, S.C. (AP) — Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark said he won’t lower the flag outside his sheriff’s office to half-staff to honor Nelson Mandela because the South African civil rights leader was not a United States citizen.

Clark first announced his decision Friday on his Facebook page, writing “Nelson Mandela did great things for his country and was a brave man but he was not an AMERICAN!!!”

The sheriff confirmed his decision in several interviews Friday.

Clark said the sheriff’s office American flag was at half-staff Friday to honor a Florence County deputy killed in a wreck and Saturday for Pearl Harbor Day, but will fly at full staff on Sunday and Monday.

Sheriff In SC Won’t Honor Mandela « CBS Charlotte
Click to expand...
SC, staying classy as always. I see.
 
WCH said:
Yahoo! News

President Barack Obama on Thursday ordered flags to fly at half-staff at the White House and public buildings, with the US in mourning over the death of "close friend" and anti-apartheid hero Nelson Mandela.

Obama's proclamation, which also extended to the White House, US foreign missions, military posts, naval stations and military vessels, was valid through sunset on Monday.

"Today, the United States has lost a close friend, South Africa has lost an incomparable liberator, and the world has lost an inspiration for freedom, justice, and human dignity -- Nelson Mandela is no longer with us, he belongs to the ages," he said in the document.

"Through his fierce dignity and unbending will to sacrifice his own freedom for the freedom of others, he transformed South Africa -- and moved the entire world.


For a Communist? Antithesis to Freedom and Liberty?

And nothing for Maggie Thatcher...nothing

I truly want to vomit.
Click to expand...

I said it before but it bears repeating. The ONLY reason Mandela was associated with communism for a time was during the years of struggle to end apartheid, the free countries of the world that were founded on the principles of liberty choose to stand in solidarity with brutal subjugation and denial of the rights of citizenship of the majority population by strict iron-fisted enforcement by the minority based on race. He would have preferred to stand with the US, Western Europe, etc. but we were on the side of Apartheid. The only countries offering their support and solidarity were places like Cuba and the Soviets. Then after South Africa gained its freedom, he led South Africa not in not becoming communist government but one based on similar rights and freedoms patterned after the US model.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom