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[R.I.P.] RIP Nelson Mandela [W:39:56:99]

Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

Always respected how he was imprisoned for 27 years, but didn't come out a bitter man.

RIP
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

ecofarm said:
Mandela was a great man and led his nation from horrible oppression towards human rights and democracy.
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Indeed. Pity how South Africa turned out really.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

MichaelW said:
Indeed. Pity how South Africa turned out really.
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This is very true, I have been to Durban in the last few months and it is a disaster, crime is everywhere. Many say, if you walk the streets you will be robed and if you don't give you will stabbed to death. And no one will say a word. I have been to Cape Town and there is so much crime in Cape Town they have a police officer on every corner in the city. South Africa is in decline, not prospering. All the intellectual capital is leaving, leaving South Africa with no real leadership.
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

APACHERAT said:
Hey Shrub :2wave:

You may remember a few years ago on the Politico we had thread about Mandela and if you remember I have a chip on my shoulder on what happened in Africa with all of the Soviet Unions proxy wars that were taking place under the disguise of freedom fighters.
My fiance was raped and murder along with her entire family in Rhodesia in 1978 by communist terrorist. And that's what they were called, communist and terrorist.
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So it's personal with me.
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Your fiancee, her family and you have my sympathy.

If Nelson Mandela (RIP.) was alive today I am sure that he would join me in condemning those terrible acts.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

MichaelW said:
Indeed. Pity how South Africa turned out really.
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There always seems to be this unstable violent period after a country is set free from an iron fist rule. You saw it in the USSR and the Middle East.

Am not saying at all these people were better off under iron fist control .
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

APACHERAT said:
Not as bad as 1/4 of all the women in South Africa have been raped.
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South Africa after apartheid has become known as the "Rape Capitol of the World."

>" Lizette Lancaster, manager of the ISS Crime and Justice Information Hub, says there are many complex reasons South Africa has such a high sexual offence rates. The armed struggle against apartheid and the violent backlash and suppression that followed have led to a normalization of violence in South African society, she said...


“Rape is one of the most under-reported crimes in South Africa,” noted the NGO coalition Shukumisa. It points to research, conducted in Gauteng in 2010, that found one-quarter of women questioned in the study “had been raped in the course of their lifetimes, while almost one in 12 women had been raped in 2009..."<

IRIN Global | A look behind the statistics of South Africa
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Mighty sad, but not all that unusual after a nation-wide war.

I have read reports that every woman in Germany was raped after WWII and I don't find that hard to believe

Certainly no one can blame Nelson Mandela for all of these things.

In any case he is not here to defend himself. Let the man rest in peace. I believe that earned that.
 
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shrubnose said:
Mighty sad, but not all that unusual after a nation-wide war.

I have read reports that every woman in Germany was raped after WWII and I don't find that hard to believe

Certainly no one can blame Nelson Mandela for all of these things.

In any case he is not here to defend himself. Let the man rest in peace. I believe that earned that.
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Even if he was alive he doesn't have to defend his legacy. He lead his country through a massive transition and avoided conflict and bloodshed. He united a country and then left leadership in 1999. South african leaders are responsible for any current unrest and its up to them to solve it
 
Higgins86 said:
Even if he was alive he doesn't have to defend his legacy. He lead his country through a massive transition and avoided conflict and bloodshed. He united a country and then left leadership in 1999. South african leaders are responsible for any current unrest and its up to them to solve it
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That's it in a nutshell, very well put.

As I have said elsewhere on this thread, Mandela deserved his Nobel Peace prize. Few people in the last century come close to this man's achievements.

South Africa may not be a great place today, but without Nelson Mandela's efforts it would probably be a lot worse.
 
This thread doesn't require anyone justifying or apologising for Nelson Mandela. He was a great revolutionary, a great statesman and a great human being. Rest in peace, Madiba. You earned it!
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

The death of Nelson Mandela has already, on CNN and Fox, highlighted his early history, incarceration, release and rise to the Presidency of South Africa: the standard Mandela talking points. It would be nice, for a change, if the media actually reported the information outside of their tightly confined talking points, like this: C.I.A. TIE REPORTED IN MANDELA ARREST - NYTimes.com

At any rate, I'm actually saddened by this man's passing. He spent, IIRC, the last few months of his life in poor health. Having learned about Mr. Mandela when I was younger, I was always impressed that he came out of being held prisoner with his head held high and was smiling as though he'd been on vacation.
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

RIP Mandella.

Hopefully what you stood for does not follows you.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Fisher;1062627867[B said:
]He was a communist who adopted a socialist face. I never considered him a great leader. If anything, he was a symbol while his wife did all the dirty work
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[/B]. Either way, I hope he had a relationship with God.
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That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, and which I will ignore.


You didn't mention this, so I'll do it for you: Despite little help from the USA he triumphed over his apartheid enemies in South Africa, put hate aside and has put South Africa on the road to a better, more inclusive future.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

DiAnna said:
I am greatly saddened by the passing of this great man. His contribution to his country, and to the world as a whole, cannot be overestimated. Decades of suffering could not snuff out the light of love in his heart for his people, nor taint his forgiveness for those who had so grievously wronged him. RIP, Mr. Mandela. Your greatness is your legacy, and will not be forgotten.
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I totally agree.

Very few people who have lived on this planet in the last hundred years have done as much to improve the lives of so many people as Nelson Mandela has done.

This is a truly great man who has left a lasting legacy which his close-minded detractors will never surpass or diminish.
 
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Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

shrubnose said:
And exactly what is that supposed to mean?
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He stood for civil rights, democracy, etc, and now he is dead. We would not want to see those things that he stood for die with him now do we?
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

shrubnose said:
That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, and which I will ignore.


You didn't mention this, so I'll do it for you: Despite little help from the USA he triumphed over his apartheid enemies in South Africa, put hate aside and has put South Africa on the road to a better, more inclusive future.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers
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Obviously you didn't ignore my opinion so much as you ignore the FACT that F.W de Klerk, the white guy, is the one who oversaw the ending of Apartheid and shared the same Noble Prize with Mandela, but because he was the white guy, people don't mention him and credit Mandela for things de Klerk did
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Fisher said:
Obviously you didn't ignore my opinion so much as you ignore the FACT that F.W de Klerk, the white guy, is the one who oversaw the ending of Apartheid and shared the same Noble Prize with Mandela, but because he was the white guy, people don't mention him and credit Mandela for things de Klerk did
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That just reads as ignorant bitterness.

de Klerk and Pik Botha went to see Mandela in prison to start negotiations and to agree a transfer towards one man one vote and an end to Apartheid. All three are credited with ending Apartheid but what you are ignoring (and others who have poured bile out in this thread) is that once in power - Mandela could have unleashed hatred and mass murder on the white population, could have stripped them of all they had (through stealing the riches of the native population) could have simply let revenge and anger dictate the future of South Africa.

What he did and some will never acknowledge or understand is to take the tough route and forgive, to have reconciliation and acknowledgement of the evils that were committed on both sides. He visited Betsy Verwoerd (mother of the architect of apartheid), spoke to Afrikanners in their own language and invited them to join his unity government.

He embraced rugby (he was never a fan as it was a white man's sport) as an acknowledgement to the white minority and celebrated it - working hard to bring the World Cup to South Africa and then pushing with the majority white team for it to become a national sport.

Yes while in prison he was involved in the ANC but what defines the man beyond the "gnat on an elephant's backside comments" is what he did when he had the power to unleash evil and revenge.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Infinite Chaos said:
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Yes while in prison he was involved in the ANC but what defines the man beyond the "gnat on an elephant's backside comments" is what he did when he had the power to unleash evil and revenge.
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Thanks for admitting that he is not celebrated for what little he did. George Bush did not nuke Afghanistan. Are the liberals going to hold him up as the model human being when he dies?

As for Mandela, he would never have been in the position to do anything but for de Klerk, and no he couldn't have unleashed mass murder on whites. He would have been dead inside a week.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

I love how classy all the conservatives are being here. Not like those hateful liberals who are happy when someone dies.

BTW, you're bucking your own guy. Former president George W. Bush praises Mandela

President George W. Bush has issued a statement on Mandela’s death: “President Mandela was one of the great forces for freedom and equality of our time. He bore his burdens with dignity and grace, and our world is better off because of his example. This good man will be missed, but his contributions will live on forever.”
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Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Moderator's Warning:
Again, will remind people to be mindful of the RIP rules and not contribute to derailing comments
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Crosscheck said:
There always seems to be this unstable violent period after a country is set free from an iron fist rule. You saw it in the USSR and the Middle East.

Am not saying at all these people were better off under iron fist control .
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South Africa started going down the ****ter before apartheid ended, although the issues were only in their infancy. When Mandela came to power, South Africa had all the best chances of growth, empowerment and reconciliation available to them. Today it's a state where nothing really has changed since the end of apartheid. You have massive corruption, abuse by the ANC who have become so contempt during their two decades in power that they've pretty much abandoned all of the morals and goals set out by Mandela. You have drug epidemics, extreme poverty everywhere and a police force that has no issues with killing people.

Former Soviet states have had just as long to develop into democracies, with failures and success stories. You have places like Turkmenistan and places like Estonia.
 
Re: Nelson Mandela Dead: Icon of Anti-Apartheid Movement Dies at 95

Fisher said:
Thanks for admitting that he is not celebrated for what little he did. George Bush did not nuke Afghanistan. Are the liberals going to hold him up as the model human being when he dies?

As for Mandela, he would never have been in the position to do anything but for de Klerk, and no he couldn't have unleashed mass murder on whites. He would have been dead inside a week.
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bush didnt nuke but ****ed afghanistan :mrgreen:
 
Re: RIP Nelson Mandela [W:28, W:56]

shrubnose said:
I totally agree.

Very few people who have lived on this planet in the last hundred years have done as much to improve the lives of so many people as Nelson Mandela has done.

This is a truly great man who has left a lasting legacy which his close-minded detractors will never surpass or diminish.
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He was no MLK. He and MLK both fought against racial injustice but Mandela used murder and terrorism to do it. He's no hero of mine.
 
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