Might be a delay getting your Big Mac today.

Deuce said:

You didn't answer the question.

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I already bitch about them...of COURSE I will. I will just have the added pleasure of laughing at them because of their own stupidity in compounding their problems by pricing themselves out of the jobs they had.

VanceMack said:

Sure...for now. But that means the machine has become more cost effective than an employee to take an order and give out change. They should be able to build a machine that will replace those inconvenient sandwich makers soon enough.

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You say that as if they haven't tried.

VanceMack said:

Sure...for now. But that means the machine has become more cost effective than an employee to take an order and give out change. They should be able to build a machine that will replace those inconvenient sandwich makers soon enough.

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Of course. That is inevitable. Automation keeps getting cheaper, people don't. Sooner or later, sandwich makers wont be needed. And unemployment will then bump up another notch. Then they'll automate the FedEx drivers, and unemployment will bump up a little more. Then they'll automate crop growing, replace farmers. And unemployment will bump up a little more.

Then they'll automate your job. And you'll collect unemployment because you earned it. You are just a victim of circumstances. Not like those other lazy poors. The only moral entitlement is your entitlement.

sangha said:

You say that as if they haven't tried.

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Should read "are trying"...and as soon as it becomes cost effective...they will. That will be about the time fry cooks demand 15 dollars an hour for the arduous task of opening a bag, pouring fries in a basket, and punching a button.

VanceMack said:

I already bitch about them...of COURSE I will. I will just have the added pleasure of laughing at them because of their own stupidity in compounding their problems by pricing themselves out of the jobs they had.

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Their job disappearing is inevitable. Their actions cannot prevent it.

Deuce said:

There are companies that pay employees better despite your insistence that those people don't deserve it.

But that point is made to illustrate the fact that "they'd have to double the price of a big mac!!" is incorrect. They'd have to slightly increase the price of food to maintain the same profit level. But why is that a given? Why do people think making less profit is a cardinal sin?

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Exactly. I make about $17 an hour to do mail and shipping receiving. They hired me on at $15. Other companies that I interviewed offered me a slave wage. My company's philosophy is "you get what you pay for" If you pay someone $8.00 and hour, you're going to get $8.00 an hour of work out of them.

VanceMack said:

Should read "are trying"...and as soon as it becomes cost effective...they will. That will be about the time fry cooks demand 15 dollars an hour for the arduous task of opening a bag, pouring fries in a basket, and punching a button.

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When fry cooks make $15/hr, the costs of making those machines will have risen too.

A touch screen menu, auto pay station like you see in the grocery stores, automated burger assembly. Just need a handful of people to take over. The problem I think is initial cost and upkeep/reliability. And we're getting there.

At least you know the machines won't spit (and other things) in your foodlike substance. :mrgreen:

But really, McDonald's are franchises, that means there's a variety of ownership and management. You're not going to get a unified strike going, ever. Not that it would make any difference, there are generally another bunch of fast food places within an mile of any McDonalds.

Deuce said:

McDonald's corporate could eat the cost of raising wages to $15/hour and not raise the price of food a single penny.

Food for thought.

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You are SOO right Deuce, they COULD. And they'd make a profit still. However, at least ONE FF chain wouldn't. And guess where investors would flock? Yeah, where the money is. McD's would lose investors, people would quit buying stock. That would kill the company. But hey, for a short while some burger flipper could make "a living wage". Good plan.

Deuce said:

McDonald's corporate could eat the cost of raising wages to $15/hour and not raise the price of food a single penny.

Food for thought.

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No, they couldn't. Most MCDonalds are now franchises, something like 80%.

Deuce said:

Of course. That is inevitable. Automation keeps getting cheaper, people don't. Sooner or later, sandwich makers wont be needed. And unemployment will then bump up another notch. Then they'll automate the FedEx drivers, and unemployment will bump up a little more. Then they'll automate crop growing, replace farmers. And unemployment will bump up a little more.

Then they'll automate your job. And you'll collect unemployment because you earned it. You are just a victim of circumstances. Not like those other lazy poors. The only moral entitlement is your entitlement.

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You wont have to worry about me there big guy. I tend to stay ahead of market trends and actually pay attention to job markets. I dont do today what I did when I was 7. At 7 I helped with a paper route for a few bucks and I dragged a push mower around looking for yards to mow. At 12 I was washing trucks for Ma Bell. At 13 I was stocking shelves at Winn Dixie and working in a ceramic shop. At 15 as managing part of an amusement park. at 16 I was still doing that and doing stunt shows for 75 a day additional. At 18 I was a sheet metal finisher, 19, a welder and machinist. 21 I was an AC mechanic. 12 years later I was A+ and IT certified with degrees and the superintendent of all secure comm in the western half of the country. At 43 I was an IT engineer and Project Manager, and today I have 3 jobs and numerous investments. I have several degrees including advanced degrees. Along the way, there were numerous side jobs including construction, fast food, fast food management, bodyguard work, a stint at a convenience store, hell I was even a janitor for around 6 months earning a bit extra to stay ahead of the game. Im only 51, so I havent really decided yet what Im going to do when Im 65...but I'm working on it. Im leaning towards opening a garage and doing auto restorations...but we'll see. Thanks for your legit concern though!

You suffer from the same stupidity most mindless reps of the downtrodden suffer from. You dont THINK. Oh...I have no doubt you are a smart individual and have a tremendous CAPACITY to think...you just don't EXERCISE that capacity. You leave populist tripe in your wake like its dead skin cells. Rather than promoting the ideas of technical and industrial jobs that are actually WORTH more and provide real opportunities for personal growth and advancement, you and people like you bang this drum, chant "power to the people" and insist on trying to make a job best done by a 15 year old high school student into a 15 dollar an hour career. And you wonder why the idea of work ethic and career growth and progression is so completely ****ed up in the eyes of your typical leftist. On the plus side...the more people like you and the more people that buy into the kind of mindless **** you sell...the fewer people my grandkids and great grandkids will have to compete against in the future. Of course...the downside is they will be left to carry the people you champion...but...hey...crosses and burdens...

sangha said:

When fry cooks make $15/hr, the costs of making those machines will have risen too.

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Once made, maintenance is a breeze. Then you just need one person keeping things stocked. Hell...supply and requisition is even automated these days.

clownboy said:

At least you know the machines won't spit (and other things) in your foodlike substance. :mrgreen:

But really, McDonald's are franchises, that means there's a variety of ownership and management. You're not going to get a unified strike going, ever. Not that it would make any difference, there are generally another bunch of fast food places within an mile of any McDonalds.

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They could build in that function...

Beaudreaux said:

And... Automation. Many of these firms are looking into and beginning automation for ordering, paying and cooking. The only job that will be left is the person that gets the order together and hands the bag to the customer. This could cut the number of employees by as much as 80%. In other words, these people are trying to get 80% of their jobs replaced by computers.

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I don't think that is happening anytime soon, unless they get voice automated ordering. I've seen the touch screen come and go and the same complaint is given each and every time. They simply aren't intuitive enough for elderly people and most people don't want to stand behind someone who has to look at every single button on the touch screen.

I personally don't mind them, but every place I've seen them so far here in the Reno, NV area has eventually taken them right back out.

TheNextEra said:

I don't think that is happening anytime soon, unless they get voice automated ordering. I've seen the touch screen come and go and the same complaint is given each and every time. They simply aren't intuitive enough for elderly people and most people don't want to stand behind someone who has to look at every single button on the touch screen.

I personally don't mind them, but every place I've seen them so far here in the Reno, NV area has eventually taken them right back out.

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McDonald's testing mobile ordering app - NY Daily News

all the mcdonalds down my way are doing this right now.

VanceMack said:

Once made, maintenance is a breeze. Then you just need one person keeping things stocked. Hell...supply and requisition is even automated these days.

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Sounds like you've never worked in a kitchen. They're filthy. Grease gets all over, and then there's the rats and the insects to contend with. Ans water damage, etc...

MrVicchio said:

You are SOO right Deuce, they COULD. And they'd make a profit still. However, at least ONE FF chain wouldn't. And guess where investors would flock? Yeah, where the money is. McD's would lose investors, people would quit buying stock. That would kill the company. But hey, for a short while some burger flipper could make "a living wage". Good plan.

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They're a profitable enterprise with plenty of assets. And would still be a profitable enterprise with plenty of assets.

clownboy said:

No, they couldn't. Most MCDonalds are now franchises, something like 80%.

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Yes, that wasn't even counting the profits of the individual franchises. Which is why I specified "corporate."

The money is there.

Deuce said:

Yes, that wasn't even counting the profits of the individual franchises. Which is why I specified "corporate."

The money is there.

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Corporate makes most of their profit from the franchises. Again, 80%. And the margins in small restaurant sales, especially fast food are extremely tight,

clownboy said:

Corporate makes most of their profit from the franchises. Again, 80%. And the margins in small restaurant sales, especially fast food are extremely tight,

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The point is that the money is there. I'm aware of the nature of franchise fast food.

So, my best friend, 7 years admin assist. for a large Corp. has worked her way up to $18 p/h. She drives 45 minutes to the other side of town because its damn hard to find a replacement job. Now she can quit, work at the Mickey Ds down the street and make as much. I'm sure she can handle burger flipping and while her income will be $24 less a day, she'll save a lot not buying nice clthes for work and driving all that way.

I keep seeing this "living wage" stuff. At $15, that $2600 a month which is well over the welfare total. Or maybe that $15 is supposed to support a family of 5? Even at $8, you're over the welfare rate (for a single person). This makes not very much sense I'm afraid.

This really needs to be reviewed before a catastrophic decision is made.

sangha said:

Sounds like you've never worked in a kitchen. They're filthy. Grease gets all over, and then there's the rats and the insects to contend with. Ans water damage, etc...

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Meh...fast food joints...sure. But we were talking about the Wawa sandwich shop. However...they could still automate, bring in a cleaning crew for 4 hours a night to degrease, filter fry traps, etc in an assembly line burger joint.

Or....they could keep minimum wage jobs minimum wage jobs and have teenagers and part timers do them instead of people trying to turn moping a floor at a burger joint into a family sustaining career.

specklebang said:

So, my best friend, 7 years admin assist. for a large Corp. has worked her way up to $18 p/h. She drives 45 minutes to the other side of town because its damn hard to find a replacement job. Now she can quit, work at the Mickey Ds down the street and make as much. I'm sure she can handle burger flipping and while her income will be $24 less a day, she'll save a lot not buying nice clthes for work and driving all that way.

I keep seeing this "living wage" stuff. At $15, that $2600 a month which is well over the welfare total. Or maybe that $15 is supposed to support a family of 5? Even at $8, you're over the welfare rate (for a single person). This makes not very much sense I'm afraid.

This really needs to be reviewed before a catastrophic decision is made.

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I think the ULTIMATE goal here is to demand 15 but...OK...we'll be reasonable and settle for say 10.50-11.

VanceMack said:

Meh...fast food joints...sure. But we were talking about the Wawa sandwich shop. However...they could still automate, bring in a cleaning crew for 4 hours a night to degrease, filter fry traps, etc in an assembly line burger joint.

Or....they could keep minimum wage jobs minimum wage jobs and have teenagers and part timers do them instead of people trying to turn moping a floor at a burger joint into a family sustaining career.

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I don't think you understand the business because you are over simplifying the problems to an extreme degree