• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

HPD responds to accusations of racial profiling with Oklahoma teen, dancers

If it was a case like that, the girl would tell the police when taken aside.

Did it not matter she told them the situation then the police verified it?

Are they saying the girl was in on the human trafficking, if that is what it was?

Apparently you never heard of Elizabeth Smart or the scores of other similar cases. Google her. She was a girl about this age, abducted and held a virtual slave for nine months. Eventually her captors did take her out in public (begging), but she had been so beaten down and reprogrammed that she did not reveal she was kidnapped even when directly questioned by an officer. He let them go on their way.

And I was suggesting the person the officer phoned who presented herself as the kid's mother may not have been. That's another element common with some traffiking operations. They have a script ready for when police make inquiries.
 
Last edited:
Not arguing with that either. Just sayin', a 13yo girl out at 3am with two men not her parents would initially look problematic to me also.

Indeed. I think it's easy to see this as purely racial and not also about the genders and ages involved.
 
Indeed. I think it's easy to see this as purely racial and not also about the genders and ages involved.

That depends on where your head is at as an idividual. For my part I see it as more likely to have little to do with race and very much to do with the disparity of age and the genders.
 
Apparently you never heard of Elizabeth Smart or the scores of other similar cases. Google her. She was a girl about this age, abducted and held a virtual slave for nine months. Eventually her captors did take her out in public (begging), but she had been so beaten down and reprogrammed that she did not reveal she was kidnapped even when directly questioned by an officer. He let them go on their way.

And I was suggesting the person the officer phoned who presented herself as the kid's mother may not have been. That's another element common with some traffiking operations. They have a script ready for when police make inquiries.

Yes I have hears of her, but I would think a cop would be able to tell if the girl is upbeat and a dancer, she even offered to dance for them, and a beaten down girl.

The question is, is why did the cop let Smart and the captors go.
 
Yes I have hears of her, but I would think a cop would be able to tell if the girl is upbeat and a dancer, she even offered to dance for them, and a beaten down girl.

The question is, is why did the cop let Smart and the captors go.

Because the Elizabeth was convincing that she belonged with them. You'd be surprised at how determined and how much acting ability a young person can muster when they think the lives of their family are on the line (this is often the threat in traffiking and longterm abduction scenerios).
 
Read some more on this and nothign as changed for me

if everything happened like the articles have said:




age vs time of night = legit concern to investigate, no problem there at all


once proper documents were supplied that should have been enough IMO

the phone call and taking them into custody is an extra step that IMO wasnt needed but at least its "sorta" justifiable, so still no real problem there


after the phone call to the parents, faxes etc then its outrageous and i have a serious problem with this

especial if the officer did question their parenting

lastly IF the local OK police did call the texas police also then its just down right insane, offensive and ignorant

if this was my kid i would definitely be super pissed and would do everything to press charges, theres no need to put my daughter through that

now again, this is if the articles are true

in fact, if it was possible as soon as he questioned my parenting i would have made the trip down there and told right to his face the many different way he kiss my entire ass
 
. It is now criminal to be a 13 year old girl out after a certain hour. Who decided that?

You have obviously never been a parent but, if you have, you're one of the worst I've seen.

That was one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.
 
If it was a case like that, the girl would tell the police when taken aside.

Did it not matter she told them the situation then the police verified it?

Are they saying the girl was in on the human trafficking, if that is what it was?

You ever heard of the Stockholm syndrome?
 
Well, here's the deal. If her dance instructors had been white, would people be talking about pimping and drug dealing in this thread? Of course not. I rest my case.
Pimping and drug dealing knows no one particular color. A Houston police officer is a very busy person. Houston is not a very safe place to live.

According to stats
Houston crime statistics report an overall upward trend in crime based on data from 12 years with violent crime increasing and property crime increasing. Based on this trend, the crime rate in Houston for 2013 is expected to be higher than in 2010.

The city violent crime rate for Houston in 2010 was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 144.29% and the city property crime rate in Houston was higher than the national property crime rate average by 71.87%.

Houston Crime Statistics: Texas (TX) - CityRating.com

I doubt you would find any respectable parents in the city of Houston or anywhere else that would find it acceptable for their 13 year old daughter to be sleeping in a car at a gas station in downtown Houston at 3:00 AM. And I believe the consensus of most good parents would be that it was their duty to accompany their daughter on the trip to Houston, 500 miles away from home. What the cop sees occurring on the streets every night in Houston and how/when he found this 13 year old kid, gave him every right to question her parent's parenting skills. These folks are one French fry short of a Happy Meal.
 
Not arguing with that either. Just sayin', a 13yo girl out at 3am with two men not her parents would initially look problematic to me also.

I agree. I don't have any big issue with the Cops INITIALLY looking into this.

I do have an issue with their discretion of the problem being that she was with "two black men". Don't give me the "he was just describing them". You're not getting called being told your daughter is with "two blonde men" or "two short men" or "Two overweight men". The one you MAY get is "Two older men"...why? Because the "older" in that case is the characteristic that you found troubling. Just like in this case, the characteristic that they found troubling was "black".

I also have issue with them making accusations of bad parenting and continuing to give problems after they had various ways (apparently official documentation and later voice verificatoin) that the parents were aware the child was under the guardianship of the dance instructor.
 
You have obviously never been a parent but, if you have, you're one of the worst I've seen.

That was one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.

You have never been to an all night resturant with your kids?

When you have no idea what you are talking about, you really should just stay quite.
 
You have never been to an all night resturant with your kids?

When you have no idea what you are talking about, you really should just stay quite.

That's exactly one of my points...being with parents!
 
That's exactly one of my points...being with parents!

Your child has never spent the night at a friends house?

They can go to a Denny's late at night.

Should the child be taken away because they are not with their parents?
 
Add to that the police being provided with the story that they are her dance coach and partner for hip hop, backing it up with a number to call with a female voice on the other end vouching for behavior no sane parent would vouch for these days, and you have what appears to be the Elizabeth Smart Story all over again.

If I knew and vetted the dance instructors beforehand, I'd have no problem leaving a 13-year-old child in their care for a weekend trip.

My guardians did the same thing for me many times when I was that age for various school and scouting activities.
 
Your child has never spent the night at a friends house?

They can go to a Denny's late at night.

Should the child be taken away because they are not with their parents?

Yes my children spent the night at other children's homes. There parents were there.

Yes they may have taken them for a late night snack somewhere.

NEVER would I allow my 13 year old to be anywhere that late at night with anyone but a child's parent I could trust. Definitely not 7.5 hours away.

I've been to Houston late at night and I would let my dog out much less my 13 year old daughter.

Thank God those cops are watching out for such things because her parents were not.

Here is local example of some other people that need their parental rights revoked.

http://www.kxan.com/web/kxan/news/local/austin/leander-teens-missing-after-attending-austin-concert
 
Last edited:
Yes my children spent the night at other children's homes. There parents were there.

Yes they may have taken them for a late night snack somewhere.

NEVER would I allow my 13 year old to be anywhere that late at night with anyone but a child's parent I could trust. Definitely not 7.5 hours away.

I've been to Houston late at night and I would let my dog out much less my 13 year old daughter.

Thank God those cops are watching out for such things because her parents were not.

I am not sure if you posted if you think it was OK to arrest the girl and take her in.

Was that the right thing to do even after it was established she was with the people she was supposed to be with?
 
<soapbox>
Even though they often go hand in hand...
Prejudice ≠ Racism
</soapbox>
 
I am not sure if you posted if you think it was OK to arrest the girl and take her in.

Was that the right thing to do even after it was established she was with the people she was supposed to be with?

As in most cases (especially once those asshats at CPS get involved) the well being of the child is paramount. Being that it was so late at night, the administrative process likely had to wait until the next morning.

But yes, I agree with the police.
 
Your child has never spent the night at a friends house?

They can go to a Denny's late at night.

Should the child be taken away because they are not with their parents?

No, but if their kid is going to Denny's, someone should get locked up
 
Yup, and the kicker here was when HPD told the parents their daughter was with 2 black men, and the parents said it was OK because they knew them, the accused they parents of bad parenting, and even after talking to the parents, they still took the daughter to CPS.

It sounds like profiling, but I'll admit that if I was a cop and the parent said "my daughter is with 2 black men", I'd raise an eyebrow.

Obligatory "NSFW" warning here!

 
If I knew and vetted the dance instructors beforehand, I'd have no problem leaving a 13-year-old child in their care for a weekend trip.

My guardians did the same thing for me many times when I was that age for various school and scouting activities.

If they were school and scouting activities, then girls were chaperoned by women as boys were chaperoned by adult males. A Scout leader as well as other mothers or fathers in the troop always chaperoned overnight outings. In this instance they sent their 13 year old daughter with two males across state lines who would be responsible for their daughter. Since the trip involved overnight lodging, it meant the girl would have to sleep in a room by herself or share a room with two men. Neither exactly a good plan. If the mother would have went along, then she could have shared a room with her daughter and made sure she was off the streets at a decent hour. I don't know of any sane parent that would call keeping their daughter out in downtown Houston till 3:00 in the morning on a weekend parked at a gas station where all three were sleeping inside the car being responsible. It doesn't take much to come up with several different ugly scenarios that could have turned into.
 
If the girl was with CPS still, I'd say there may be a point here. But the bottom line, the cops erred on the side of caution (a 13 year old with a 29 and 22 year old out and about at 3am would make any reasonable police officer suspicious). The documents/parents attestation were verified and the girl was released 8 hours from the time the police stopped them.

And the mother "recalled" hearing "Do you know your daughter is with two black men?" I would wonder if HPD have recorders on their phone system. Most do these days. I'd like to see that statement validated beyond what the mother "recalled."
 
If they were school and scouting activities, then girls were chaperoned by women as boys were chaperoned by adult males.

Yeah, so? Plenty of cases of "responsible adults" molesting kids of the same sex.

You either trust the people your kids are with, or you don't. If you trust a man with your daughters, it doesn't matter that he's a man, and if you don't trust a man with your daughters, you shouldn't trust him with your sons, either.

In this instance they sent their 13 year old daughter with two males across state lines who would be responsible for their daughter.

Yes. Two adult males. Two adult male professional instructors that the family had been working with and that they apparently trusted.

Since the trip involved overnight lodging, it meant the girl would have to sleep in a room by herself or share a room with two men. Neither exactly a good plan.

I don't see how there's a damned thing wrong with a 13-year-old sleeping in a hotel room by herself when she has two responsible adults sleeping in the same hotel.
 
If they were school and scouting activities, then girls were chaperoned by women as boys were chaperoned by adult males. A Scout leader as well as other mothers or fathers in the troop always chaperoned overnight outings. In this instance they sent their 13 year old daughter with two males across state lines who would be responsible for their daughter. Since the trip involved overnight lodging, it meant the girl would have to sleep in a room by herself or share a room with two men. Neither exactly a good plan. If the mother would have went along, then she could have shared a room with her daughter and made sure she was off the streets at a decent hour. I don't know of any sane parent that would call keeping their daughter out in downtown Houston till 3:00 in the morning on a weekend parked at a gas station where all three were sleeping inside the car being responsible. It doesn't take much to come up with several different ugly scenarios that could have turned into.

Would it make a difference if the 2 dance instructors were gay?
 
Would it make a difference if the 2 dance instructors were gay?

First off, they weren't both dance instuctors, one of the men was her dance partner (another parental judgement fail). AND we don't know that the one claiming to be the dance instructor was a professional. These parents have shown zero good judgement in any aspect of this road trip. Not to mention, in every jurisdiction I know of it's not legal to camp in your car in a gas station parking lot without permission of the owners, and in most cases not even then (violates zoning ordinances and pits the business in jeopardy of losing their license). Parents with poor judgement skills putting their daugther in the hands of folks with equally poor judgement skills.
 
Back
Top Bottom