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U.S. justices decline to hear another Obamacare challenge

US Conservative said:
So so much fail. Its not over for obamacare-certainly it is still capable of being overturned.

And the heritage foundation line is bull**** as well-this law is entirely a dem baby.
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Multiple challenges on the same grounds are very likely to be dismissed as well.
 
And this right here is why the court is unfit and not worth the peoples time in respecting. For that matter, a government that doesn't respect the liberty of it's people is unfit to exist.
 
Deuce said:
It's a penalty up to $695, assessed only on your tax return. Waived if you have insurance. There is no other enforcement mechanism. Criminal charges are expressly prevented. Only your tax return can be reduced, they can't even garnish wages. Explain to us how you think that's substantively different from what the heritage idiot supported.
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Who the hell cares what heritage supported? It is still forcing people into commerce and ignoring the people right to decide to buy or not buy insurance. That isn't even considering the right of insurance companies to deny to do business with people. Just admit your law is a violation of human rights and move on. Stop trying to pretend anyone cares that the heritage foundation supported the idea in the past or that it even matters.
 
danarhea said:
So here is my question. If not Obamacare, then what? I would like to hear some good answers on this question. We should act like civilized people, and not as barbarians and animals. For now, despite it's many problems, I think Obamacare is OK, until something better comes along.
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Really now, as if obamacare is civilized. Exactly what part of Obamacare could be described as civilized? What coercive action do you wish to pretend represents civilized behavior today?
 
Deuce said:
The heritage idea wasn't UHC, nor is the ACA. Heritage's idea was an alternative to "HillaryCare" presented by the GOP. It included a mandate to buy health insurance, enforced by removing tax benefits from people who failed to get insurance. And provided tax credits to help those who had trouble affording insurance. You're telling me this is "nothing like" the ACA?
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By your reasoning, just because the two ideas had one thing in common that it means they are the same?

A giraffe and a cheetah both have spots, are they the same?

Another thing you need to realize is that this is not a Republican vs. Democrat thing...both establishments want this, its the people who are crying out about it and started electing people that will help get rid of this monstrosity.

Listen to the outcry now...and its only effecting a very small portion of our population. Wait until the law effects everyone and their employer provided plans.
 
As 80% of the country already had insurance and several states already had implemented healthcare options, the answer is pretty obvious that the responsibility for health care should be on the individual first and state second. As to the contraceptives argument...that is just top down blanket bull****. The contraceptives 'battle' was a foolish contrived argument used as an allegation of this mythical "war on women.' When Sandra Fluke testified she even admitted that despite her mythical 'friend' being denied oral contraceptives that she, as a student of a Jesuit University, already HAD healthcare AND was able to get oral contraceptives. Where they have been indicated as a medical need (by doctors recommendation for prevention of OCs, etc) they are covered by insurance. If it is contraceptives for prevention of contraception, there are free clinics in every major city, Planned Parenthood organizations, every college campus, etc where condoms are readily available and free.

As to the employers being required to provide healthcare...thats just stupid beyond comprehension.

I do agree though...people should STOP challenging this law and should instead demand FULL implementation RIGHT NOW...before the elections. End the waivers, end the exemptions. Let people truly feel impact of their mindless support for legislation none of them bothered to read.
 
danarhea said:
That was the Republicans' last chance to kill Obamacare in it's entirety. However, there are still 2 cases that will be decided by June that deal with employers who don't want Obamacare to cover contraception, based on religious grounds.

I am still amazed at why the GOP is trying so hard to kill a law that was conceived by the Heritage Foundation. Obamacare is virtually that same plan. And let's face it. Although some aspects of Obamacare have been a fiasco, Americans should act like Americans, and not let people die simply because they don't make enough money to afford insurance.

So here is my question. If not Obamacare, then what? I would like to hear some good answers on this question. We should act like civilized people, and not as barbarians and animals. For now, despite it's many problems, I think Obamacare is OK, until something better comes along.
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Article is here.
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I agree that Obamacare will have to do until single payer is enacted.
 
Henrin said:
Who the hell cares what heritage supported? It is still forcing people into commerce and ignoring the people right to decide to buy or not buy insurance. That isn't even considering the right of insurance companies to deny to do business with people. Just admit your law is a violation of human rights and move on. Stop trying to pretend anyone cares that the heritage foundation supported the idea in the past or that it even matters.
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Heritage guy wants to suggest obamacare was unconstitutional but his idea wasn't. So apparently he cares.

Do you have the right to dump medical costs on to me?
 
Imnukingfutz said:
By your reasoning, just because the two ideas had one thing in common that it means they are the same?

A giraffe and a cheetah both have spots, are they the same?

Another thing you need to realize is that this is not a Republican vs. Democrat thing...both establishments want this, its the people who are crying out about it and started electing people that will help get rid of this monstrosity.

Listen to the outcry now...and its only effecting a very small portion of our population. Wait until the law effects everyone and their employer provided plans.
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Feel free to describe a substantial difference between the two plans.
 
Deuce said:
Heritage guy wants to suggest obamacare was unconstitutional but his idea wasn't. So apparently he cares.
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I don't care.

Do you have the right to dump medical costs on to me?
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Complaining about laws again, are we? Tell me though, if the hospital was to provide people free care on their free will would that not increase costs? Do they not have the right to dump those costs on paying customers? Why is it any different when it happens when government starts the wheels rolling? Why can't the hospital dump costs on paying customers?
 
Henrin said:
I don't care.



Complaining about laws again, are we? Tell me though, if the hospital was to provide people free care on their free will would that not increase costs? Do they not have the right to dump those costs on paying customers? Why is it any different when it happens when government starts the wheels rolling? Why can't the hospital dump costs on paying customers?
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Deflection. You don't answer my question and expect an answer to yours?
 
Deuce said:
Deflection. You don't answer my question and expect an answer to yours?
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Consider the answer to your question yes.
 
Deuce said:
Feel free to describe a substantial difference between the two plans.
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Well for starters;
The Heritage plan does not assume Student Loans
The Heritage plan does not mandate specified minimal coverage
The Heritage plan does not force your existing policy to cancel because it doesnt meet government standards.
The Heritage plan does not call for the hiring of 15,000 new IRS agents
The Heritage plan does not give the HHS unheralded, unabated powers.
The Heritage plan does not create a national data base of your personal medical information.

should I go on?

Romneycare wouldn't even have been a good comparison because even it isnt as overbearing and intrusive as the ACA.
 
justabubba said:
no, you are exposing that you have no understanding about the way insurance works
we will all be expected to pay for health insurance coverage
while we do not know whether we will eventually pay for more than we ultimately require
our risk is pooled. and only a fool would hope to receive more than they contributed, because that would mean you encountered more health problems than the average person
the objective is to pay more than we use. which meas we would up healthy. the 'surplus' that we paid, which was used by others, paid for the possibility that it could have otherwise been you who needed to access that 'surplus' to cover your extraordinary health costs
without such a healthcare safety net, those with the least means and greatest health care issues ... which costs of care they could not personally afford, would have certain death as their near term expectation. this safety net changes that
pay your health care premium and pray you never require use of the 'surplus' that is paid
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No, at the root of everything liberal is a ploy to get something they did not earn. Virtue. Healthcare. A Job. It most often centers around FORCING others to comply.
 
VanceMack said:
As 80% of the country already had insurance and several states already had implemented healthcare options, the answer is pretty obvious that the responsibility for health care should be on the individual first and state second. As to the contraceptives argument...that is just top down blanket bull****. The contraceptives 'battle' was a foolish contrived argument used as an allegation of this mythical "war on women.' When Sandra Fluke testified she even admitted that despite her mythical 'friend' being denied oral contraceptives that she, as a student of a Jesuit University, already HAD healthcare AND was able to get oral contraceptives. Where they have been indicated as a medical need (by doctors recommendation for prevention of OCs, etc) they are covered by insurance. If it is contraceptives for prevention of contraception, there are free clinics in every major city, Planned Parenthood organizations, every college campus, etc where condoms are readily available and free.

As to the employers being required to provide healthcare...thats just stupid beyond comprehension.

I do agree though...people should STOP challenging this law and should instead demand FULL implementation RIGHT NOW...before the elections. End the waivers, end the exemptions. Let people truly feel impact of their mindless support for legislation none of them bothered to read.
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End the exemptions? Who's going to do that? Obama's drones voted in the ACA and then slipped out the back door before it applied to them. Dems wont touch it. The attempt to move back the employer mandate until after the 2014 election is transparently political. These idiots had 4 years to implement this program, it was lies...lies deferred until after the 2012 election-lest America get a whiff of the **** sandwich they are going to be mandated to eat.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Well for starters;
The Heritage plan does not assume Student Loans
The Heritage plan does not mandate specified minimal coverage
The Heritage plan does not force your existing policy to cancel because it doesnt meet government standards.
The Heritage plan does not call for the hiring of 15,000 new IRS agents
The Heritage plan does not give the HHS unheralded, unabated powers.
The Heritage plan does not create a national data base of your personal medical information.

should I go on?

Romneycare wouldn't even have been a good comparison because even it isnt as overbearing and intrusive as the ACA.
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Might I add that Romneycare was intended for liberal massachusetts. In that specific context, it would have been more acceptable. But a top down, one size fits all program is destined to upset a lot of people.
 
US Conservative said:
End the exemptions? Who's going to do that? Obama's drones voted in the ACA and then slipped out the back door before it applied to them. Dems wont touch it. The attempt to move back the employer mandate until after the 2014 election is transparently political. These idiots had 4 years to implement this program, it was lies...lies deferred until after the 2012 election-lest America get a whiff of the **** sandwich they are going to be mandated to eat.
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And that's my point...has been all along. The GOP is screwing themselves by FIGHTING this. Even if they won the democrats would run to their mindless supporters and blame every ill and problem on them. Frankly...it's an easy sell. So...FORCE implementation and watch them scurry like rats trying to STOP it.
 
VanceMack said:
And that's my point...has been all along. The GOP is screwing themselves by FIGHTING this. Even if they won the democrats would run to their mindless supporters and blame every ill and problem on them. Frankly...it's an easy sell. So...FORCE implementation and watch them scurry like rats trying to STOP it.
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I agree. Health care is something that no civilized society is going to deny the least among it's citizens, but Obamacare has been a disaster from the start. It is my hope that this will end up resulting in something better.
 
danarhea said:
I agree. Health care is something that no civilized society is going to deny the least among it's citizens, but Obamacare has been a disaster from the start. It is my hope that this will end up resulting in something better.
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On that we can all agree. What would be better in your eyes? Free market unleashed or a single payer system?
 
MrVicchio said:
On that we can all agree. What would be better in your eyes? Free market unleashed or a single payer system?
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We already had the free market system, and it did not work at all. Insurance companies dropped people when they got sick, people with pre-existing conditions could not obtain insurance, and plenty of junk insurance was available, in which people paid monthly for the privilege of not being covered if they had a catastrophic illness. So I say no to the free market system. It had it's chance, and it blew it.

I also say no to single payer, because that is going too far.

What would be the ideal health care system? Honestly, I don't know, but if we are to be a civilized society, and not a bunch of savages, then we certainly need something.
 
danarhea said:
We already had the free market system, and it did not work at all. Insurance companies dropped people when they got sick, people with pre-existing conditions could not obtain insurance, and plenty of junk insurance was available, in which people paid monthly for the privilege of not being covered if they had a catastrophic illness. So I say no to the free market system. It had it's chance, and it blew it.

I also say no to single payer, because that is going too far.

What would be the ideal health care system? Honestly, I don't know, but if we are to be a civilized society, and not a bunch of savages, we certainly need something.
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We haven't had a free market since at least the 70's. Health insurance worked just fine before that (when it was actual insurance), and it wasn't breaking families financially.
 
lizzie said:
We haven't had a free market since at least the 70's. Health insurance worked just fine before that (when it was actual insurance), and it wasn't breaking families financially.
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That was when insurance companies were deregulated, and the so-called free market was unleashed.
 
danarhea said:
That was when insurance companies were deregulated, and the so-called free market was unleashed.
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No, the 70's was when the heavy regulation began. The free market was working just fine before. Costs were contained, pharmaceuticals and Dr's offices were competitive for business, and a room fee in the hospital was about 100 dollars per day.
 
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