300,000 Protesters in Kiev, Opposition Leader Calls it a 'Revolution'

[Sherman123]

There are 300,000 protesters on the streets of Kiev tonight and clashes have occurred across the city with some demonstrators having seized control of the City Council building with crowds continuing to mount. Demonstrations in other cities have seen 20,000-30,000 on the streets. The opposition is calling for fresh elections and the resignation or impeachment of embattled President Viktor Yanukovych in response to the U-turn over the EU association agreement and the refusal to release his former political rival Yulia Tymoshenko. Many are seeing this as a re-emergence of the bitter East vs. West divide that led to the Orange Revolution in 2004 and a serious 'backfire' to Russian pressure for a rejection of the agreement. According to the OpEd I've listed below and some other sources tomorrow will be a major test as momentum appears to be on the side of the protest movement with calls for 400,000 or more to hit the streets and reach the Presidential Palace despite a ban on protests in the capital vicinity. According to the writer there are rumors circulating that Yanukovych will call for a caretaker cabinet as a strategic measure to buy time leading up to fresh elections.

This is very interesting as it could lead to a rapid collapse of the pro-Russia position in Ukraine and undo much of the progress that they have made since the arrest of Tymoshenko. What was supposed to be a culminating measure away from the EU and the West may be the trigger that brings it all down. Of course it might all fizzle out or fall to a crackdown but in the wake of so many wave protest movements in the past decade (including one in Ukraine) I don't think it should be discounted so readily.

Thoughts?

BBC News - Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
The Orange Revolution MKII

 

[rocket88]

The problem in Ukraine is there is a large ethnic Russian population. They want to see things more pro-Russian of course.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The problem in Ukraine is there is a large ethnic Russian population. They want to see things more pro-Russian of course.

That and the Ukraine economy is heavily reliant on Russia. The Ukraine sells most of its exports to Russia and gets most of its energy from Russia

 

[apdst]

The problem in Ukraine is there is a large ethnic Russian population. They want to see things more pro-Russian of course.

Russians only make up 17% of the population. I doubt this demonstration has anything to do with making things more Russian

 

[rocket88]

Russians only make up 17% of the population. I doubt this demonstration has anything to do with making things more Russian

No, the demonstration is in favor of better ties with the EU. The government has been pro-Russia. It is, however, a significant minority and one that really helped to elect this government.

The tipping point in this has been energy - a LOT of Ukraine's natural gas comes via pipeline from Russia. We know that Putin has used shutting off the pipeline before for political leverage, so he's not shy to do that.

 

[apdst]

No, the demonstration is in favor of better ties with the EU. The government has been pro-Russia. It is, however, a significant minority and one that really helped to elect this government.

The tipping point in this has been energy - a LOT of Ukraine's natural gas comes via pipeline from Russia. We know that Putin has used shutting off the pipeline before for political leverage, so he's not shy to do that.

Went back and actually read the article? LOL!

 

[Coin]

Ukraine is better with Russia, rather than EU.
Russia is not anymore USSR.

 

[ilan22]

well ukraine today is heavily dependnt on russia,most of her products are sold in russia and if they will sign a deal with the EURO alot of cheap european products will come to ukraine and destroy the markets....


i am happy that my family left that place,horrible people(very racist) that the main thing in their head is drink vodka and have 2,3 wifes and leave each on of them for another girl(of course that not about every one,but its huge part of ukraine)

 

[Rainman05]

well ukraine today is heavily dependnt on russia,most of her products are sold in russia and if they will sign a deal with the EURO alot of cheap european products will come to ukraine and destroy the markets....


i am happy that my family left that place,horrible people(very racist) that the main thing in their head is drink vodka and have 2,3 wifes and leave each on of them for another girl(of course that not about every one,but its huge part of ukraine)

This is the kind of post russian ultras usually like to make. And the red part is answered below.

Ukraine is better with Russia, rather than EU.
Russia is not anymore USSR.

The Ukrainian people think this is not the case... and I concur.

That and the Ukraine economy is heavily reliant on Russia. The Ukraine sells most of its exports to Russia and gets most of its energy from Russia

This is because they were bullied by Russia to have trade agreements mostly with Russia and any contact with western nations was discouraged.
Also, on the topic that cheap Euro goods will come in and destroy the Ukrainian market: it's lies. There is no substance to such claims. It's just made-up BS. Ukraine will benefit greatly by having good trade relations with the EU. Ofc, sadly, they kicked that door shut on their end.

The problem in Ukraine is there is a large ethnic Russian population. They want to see things more pro-Russian of course.

Not true. Ukrainians are not Russians and Russians only form a large segment of the population in the eastern regions of Ukraine. The 2nd largest city in the east of Ukraine is Zaporyshnya and even it has just 25% of the population as Russians, the rest, Ukrainians and other minorities.
EDIT: The largest is Kharkiv and it has 50% russian ethnics in it's population.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

This is because they were bullied by Russia to have trade agreements mostly with Russia and any contact with western nations was discouraged.
Also, on the topic that cheap Euro goods will come in and destroy the Ukrainian market: it's lies. There is no substance to such claims. It's just made-up BS. Ukraine will benefit greatly by having good trade relations with the EU. Ofc, sadly, they kicked that door shut on their end.



.

My point was to indicate that in the short term the Euro deal would/could result in some serious economic hardships. Ukrainian goods are not likely to sell well in Europe, and they could be shut out of the Russian market, that could take years to change. Russia could also cut off NG supplies hurting the only Ukrainian goods that would have potential in the EU (like steel). Over the long term it probably would be good, but the short term consequences could be severe

 

[rocket88]

Went back and actually read the article? LOL!

No, you misread my original post. It was, in retrospect, not as clear as I would have liked it to have been.

 

[rocket88]

Not true. Ukrainians are not Russians and Russians only form a large segment of the population in the eastern regions of Ukraine. The 2nd largest city in the east of Ukraine is Zaporyshnya and even it has just 25% of the population as Russians, the rest, Ukrainians and other minorities.
EDIT: The largest is Kharkiv and it has 50% russian ethnics in it's population.

What I said was that there is a significant population of Russians in Ukraine. Not that they were indistinguishable from each other. There's fairly decent sized Russian populations in most of the former USSR, thanks to Stalin's attempt at Russification (He was kind of a Russian chauvinist. (Which is really screwy when you consider that he was Georgian.)

Those Russians prefer stronger ties to Russia.

 

[apdst]

No, you misread my original post. It was, in retrospect, not as clear as I would have liked it to have been.

Yeah, that's one way to put it...LOL!

Another way would be: you jumped the gun.

 

[rocket88]

Yeah, that's one way to put it...LOL!

Another way would be: you jumped the gun.

Except that I didn't. My post wasn't clear. Live with it.

 

[apdst]

Except that I didn't. My post wasn't clear. Live with it.

Ain't no flies on me, sport.

 

[Sherman123]

Parliament has approved a measure allowing a no-confidence vote to come to the floor, the Speaker has rejected the President's request for a state of emergency, protests are fanning out across the country and the leadership sounds more and more frantic. I think its possible the government will fall and a caretaker cabinet will be installed within a few days or weeks.

 

[Rainman05]

Parliament has approved a measure allowing a no-confidence vote to come to the floor, the Speaker has rejected the President's request for a state of emergency, protests are fanning out across the country and the leadership sounds more and more frantic. I think its possible the government will fall and a caretaker cabinet will be installed within a few days or weeks.

Well the no confidence is not in the bag yet. they may start procedures tomorrow but it's not clear whether they will be able to do the voting tomorrow. If there will be a no confidence vote, and if it does pass, it means that there will be new elections.

I suspect there will be a fight in the ukrainian parliament tomorrow. There usually is before and after every major vote.

 

[Fallenangel]

i am happy that my family left that place,horrible people(very racist) that the main thing in their head is drink vodka and have 2,3 wifes and leave each on of them for another girl(of course that not about every one,but its huge part of ukraine)

Ah... and in neighboring, Russia; people ride bears to work, drink spirit 24/7, and play on balalaika while eating borscht with a wooden spoon...

Fallen.