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China warplanes tail U.S. and Japan fighter jets; How Far Will China Go?

cpwill said:
A few minutes? Depends on how you count "few", I suppose. Post-Launch Seeker Radar allows for launch without associated facilities, and China has far more missiles than we do capital ships.
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Well, seeing as we're speculating wildly here, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. They can't launch if we deny them their launchers.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, is the OP wrong in saying "in its new maritime air defense zone", or is there a dispute over just where their air defense zone is?

It's quite a way from the USA.....
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Heya DH. :2wave: Looks like this?


92fd600bd6fe3227440f6a7067003c70.jpg


http://www.debatepolitics.com/asia/...edy-accuses-china-raising-tension-region.html
 
Beaudreaux said:
Not arguing that. Just saying what I've read, and that I hope you are correct.
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Even if they were fully-loaded, it's a single carrier from a nation with hardly any navy. Doesn't really pay to panic over it.
 
The Misanthrope said:
In breaking news a huge Chinese fleet is blockading the Panama Canal! Officer commanding the Chinese fleet, Admiral Who Flung Dung, has planted Chinese flag and claimed the Canal for China because "we've used for decades!"
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You do realize, that the Chinese actually have planted the Chinese flag at the Panama Canal, because they bought the damned thing from the Panamanians?

Woops... :doh :lamo
 
Harshaw said:
Even if they were fully-loaded, it's a single carrier from a nation with hardly any navy. Doesn't really pay to panic over it.
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I'm not panicked. What concerns me are their anti-ship missiles and ballistic missiles, specifically the DF-21.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I'm not panicked. What concerns me are their anti-ship missiles and ballistic missiles, specifically the DF-21.
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Like anything else that comes along -- U-boats, torpedoes, cruise missiles, what have you -- we'll develop ways to deal with them, if we haven't already.
 
Higgins86 said:
As I pointed out earlier in the thread Japan have been doign the same thing with regards to airspace in the East China sea. Seems to be one set of rules for Japan and another for China
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Link?
 
Beaudreaux said:
You do realize, that the Chinese actually have planted the Chinese flag at the Panama Canal, because they bought the damned thing from the Panamanians?

Woops... :doh :lamo
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I did, but forgot. Consequently I changed it to the Suez Canal.
 
Beaudreaux said:
You'd have ask them, but I feel it's because of the potential for oil. The same reason that China has laid claim to islands that have been claimed for decades by the Philippines, Indonesia, and many others in the South Pacific.

It's a power grab for resources. The same thing that started the Sino-Japanese War in 1937 that lead to WWII.
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Heya Beaudreaux :2wave: What resources are on these Islands?

f4dd3f56b7a51827440f6a7067004008_original.jpg


20ce70edf5084627440f6a7067007693.jpg
 
Harshaw said:
Like anything else that comes along -- U-boats, torpedoes, cruise missiles, what have you -- we'll develop ways to deal with them, if we haven't already.
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I'd bet my balls that you and your warlike Merkin mates would **** bricks and scream for "Momma" if a Chinese kid put a fire cracker in your letterbox.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Link?
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sorry I though I posted the link earlier. Its an interesting article highlighting some of the key points on all sides.

"Japan seems to ignore the fact that it has demarcated a similar identification zone in the East China Sea for years, and has expanded this zone over the years. In fact, the western-most line of Japan's zone stretches all the way to China and is only about 135km (84 miles) from China's coast at the closest point"

BBC News - Viewpoints: China air zone tensions
 
The Misanthrope said:
I'd bet my balls that you and your warlike Merkin mates would **** bricks and scream for "Momma" if a Chinese kid put a fire cracker in your letterbox.
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:screwy
 
Harshaw said:
Well, seeing as we're speculating wildly here, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. They can't launch if we deny them their launchers.
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These are specifically on mobile launchers though. And we saw how well we could take out such weapon platforms in the first gulf war.
 
Higgins86 said:
sorry I though I posted the link earlier. Its an interesting article highlighting some of the key points on all sides.

"Japan seems to ignore the fact that it has demarcated a similar identification zone in the East China Sea for years, and has expanded this zone over the years. In fact, the western-most line of Japan's zone stretches all the way to China and is only about 135km (84 miles) from China's coast at the closest point"

BBC News - Viewpoints: China air zone tensions
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Why did you quote what was clearly labeled as the opinion of the Director of the China National Association of International Studies as if it were fact, while ignoring the other opinions quoted in the story?
 
Hamster Buddha said:
These are specifically on mobile launchers though. And we saw how well we could take out such weapon platforms in the first gulf war.
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23 years ago.
 
Harshaw said:
Why did you quote what was clearly labeled as the opinion of the Director of the China National Association of International Studies as if it were fact, while ignoring the other opinions quoted in the story?
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because Jed asked me to post the link and the source for my claim that Japan had also been expanding their zones in the East china sea, so I posted the link and the quote I was refrencing earlier in the thread.
 
Harshaw said:
:screwy
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Better stick to helpless Caribbean islands, banana republics, spear chucking Somalis, and other helpless agrarian nations. Even though China is probably 50 years behind you militarily it is still powerful enough to make a f-----g big mess of your naval and air farces.
 
The Misanthrope said:
Better stick to helpless Caribbean islands, banana republics, spear chucking Somalis, and other helpless agrarian nations. Even though China is probably 50 years behind you militarily it is still powerful enough to make a f-----g big mess of your naval and air farces.
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:screwy
 
Harshaw said:
What's to "ask"? They have one, which isn't operational, and no planes. Some people make it seem like ZOMG, they have a CARRIER!!! They rule the seas now!!! They barely have a navy.
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The Chinese carrier is at sea and are conducting air operations training. The Chinese have already laid the keel for a second carrier. China plans on having four carriers and maybe more.

The threat isn't today but twenty or thirty years in the future. Most in the worlds naval community believe that China will challenge the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea in twenty or so years.

This is why most in the U.S. military community and our Allies in the Pacific criticize Obama for only paying attention to the present and not looking at what threats there are over the horizon.

While the current U.S. Navy under the Obama administration struggles just keeping two carriers at sea, our Navy has become a hollow force and can't even project it's power as it was able to do five years ago. Look at what just happened in the Mediterranean during the Syrian show down some months ago. We were only able to deploy three additional destroyers to the 6th Fleet AOR. When the Chief of Naval Operations was asked "whear are our carriers" ? "Why is our surge carrier still sitting in Norfolk" ? His answerer was the carrier's crew weren't properly trained to put to sea. Instead of training to go to war they are attending mandatory classroom sensitivity training.

While our Navy is shrinking our allies took notice and our building up their navies.

Great Britian are building two large super carriers and new escorts. Japan just launched it's first aircraft carrier since WW ll. India's is buying Russia's old carriers while the Russian Bear has come out of hibernation and will be building three new fleets with all new high tech warships. And more often than not, the Russians get it right with new ship designs.

There's a world wide navy build up going on as war clouds are forming over the Western Pacific. And our current administration is to incompetent to see it.

During the Syrian show down in the Med, do you know why the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was hold up in the Red Sea and didn't transit the Suez Canal and enter the 6th Fleet AOR ?

Because Putin moved one of his Slava class cruisers into the Mediterranean Sea. A Slava class cruiser was designed for one mission, to sink a Nimitz class carrier and it's escorts from 300 miles away with mach-5 supersonic anti ship missiles, each with a 2,000 explosive warhead. And a Slava class cruiser doesn't work alone, it has a few attack subs designed to sink NATO ships and hunt down American subs. It also has AA destroyers who main purpose is protecting the cruiser by shooting down NATO aircraft and ASW destroyers designed to destroy American subs.

slava_class.jpg
 
Higgins86 said:
because Jed asked me to post the link and the source for my claim that Japan had also been expanding their zones in the East china sea, so I posted the link and the quote I was refrencing earlier in the thread.
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So why do you take his word as gospel over the Japanese opinion? The Canadian commentator -- the first one in the story -- seems to have a pretty level-headed and balanced take on it.
 
APACHERAT said:
The Chinese carrier is at sea and are conducting air operations training. The Chinese have already laid the keel for a second carrier. China plans on having four carriers and maybe more.

The threat isn't today but twenty or thirty years in the future. Most in the worlds naval community believe that China will challenge the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea in twenty or so years.

This is why most in the U.S. military community and our Allies in the Pacific criticize Obama for only paying attention to the present and not looking at what threats there are over the horizon.

While the current U.S. Navy under the Obama administration struggles just keeping two carriers at sea, our Navy has become a hollow force and can't even project it's power as it was able to do five years ago. Look at what just happened in the Mediterranean during the Syrian show down some months ago. We were only able to deploy three additional destroyers to the 6th Fleet AOR. When the Chief of Naval Operations was asked "whear are our carriers" ? "Why is our surge carrier still sitting in Norfolk" ? His answerer was the carrier's crew weren't properly trained to put to sea. Instead of training to go to war they are attending mandatory classroom sensitivity training.

While our Navy is shrinking our allies took notice and our building up their navies.

Great Britian are building two large super carriers and new escorts. Japan just launched it's first aircraft carrier since WW ll. India's is buying Russia's old carriers while the Russian Bear has come out of hibernation and will be building three new fleets with all new high tech warships. And more often than not, the Russians get it right with new ship designs.

There's a world wide navy build up going on as war clouds are forming over the Western Pacific. And our current administration is to incompetent to see it.

During the Syrian show down in the Med, do you know why the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was hold up in the Red Sea and didn't transit the Suez Canal and enter the 6th Fleet AOR ?

Because Putin moved one of his Slava class cruisers into the Mediterranean Sea. A Slava class cruiser was designed for one mission, to sink a Nimitz class carrier and it's escorts from 300 miles away with mach-5 supersonic anti ship missiles, each with a 2,000 explosive warhead. And a Slava class cruiser doesn't work alone, it has a few attack subs designed to sink NATO ships and hunt down American subs. It also has AA destroyers who main purpose is protecting the cruiser by shooting down NATO aircraft and ASW destroyers designed to destroy American subs.

View attachment 67157458
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We went over this in a different thread. This is part and parcel of your tendency toward denigrating your own country because of your anti-Obama fervor.

I WILL say this -- the ONLY source from which our dominance of the oceans faces serious threat in the foreseeable future is internal.
 
Harshaw said:
So why do you take his word as gospel over the Japanese opinion? The Canadian commentator -- the first one in the story -- seems to have a pretty level-headed and balanced take on it.
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It's not his opinion I was interested in it was the zone he was refrencing and the distance to the Chinese coast , you can check a map which is what I did after I read that quote and you will find him to be correct.

He does bring up a good point though

"It is important to note that the Chinese and Japanese zones overlap to a large extent. Therefore, both nations need to handle themselves carefully and prudently to avoid any miscalculations or unintended consequences.

This is something both China and Japan have failed to do.
 
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