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US, Iran nuclear deal spurs bipartisan concern in Congress

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

Fiddytree said:
We could also tell that to the fool that wants to shock us with tales of selfishness, greed, and anti-democratic action.

What if I said self-interest in foreign policy was good? What if I said using our power, even if carefully and with restraint, to maintain our dominance, is good for us, and perhaps what we see as good in itself?
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I'd say you were up yourself.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
I'd say you were up yourself.
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Or that we were getting what everyone else actually wants, but doesn't currently have. I'd have no doubt that if your own country had such power, it would use it to advance its own interests, and I would have no doubt that if it pushed them against the United States, your countrymen would see it as good, while our countrymen would not.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
Here we go, the pharisaical christian-capitalist's favourite fulmination, "evil". How many countries has Iran invaded and how many millions of foreigners has it murdered in the last century or so? Then look at America's disgraceful record of EVIL for the last century.
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More America hatin, Leftist hypocrisy...

List of massacres of Indigenous Australians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

What if I said using our power, even if carefully and with restraint,
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IOW, what if we just held a gun against the head of the people we were mugging?
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
IOW, what if we just held a gun against the head of the people we were mugging?
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You rarely need something as dramatic as that. Our forefathers understood the importance of soft power.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
Oh I am! By being here trying to deprogramme people like you I'm attempting to forestall America sacking a democratically elected Australian government again.
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When did the US "sack" the Australian govt?
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
Ever wondered why they murdered them?
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Becaise the terrorists are freedom hating, murdering animals.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
I don't even need to read it. What we, or our racist ancestors, did to the aborigines was inexcusably CRIMINAL! BTW, my families were deported to Australia, starving and in rags, from their native Scotland during the Highland Clearances.
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Australia is a society bted from criminals.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
Oh I am! By being here trying to deprogramme people like you I'm attempting to forestall America sacking a democratically elected Australian government again.
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You have us to thank for your freedom. If not for us you'd be speaking Japanese now.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

Fiddytree said:
Or that we were getting what everyone else actually wants, but doesn't currently have. I'd have no doubt that if your own country had such power, it would use it to advance its own interests, and I would have no doubt that if it pushed them against the United States, your countrymen would see it as good, while our countrymen would not.
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So in your honest opinion every country on earth would do as America has done, ever since its fascistic Founding Fathers slimed ashore in Maryland and Massachusetts, if they had the military power to do so?
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
So in your honest opinion every country on earth would do as America has done, ever since its fascistic Founding Fathers slimed ashore in Maryland and Massachusetts, if they had the military power to do so?
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Absolutely. Mankind is ruled by self-interest and pursuit of power. Each empire and hegemonic power has tended to use its strength against smaller groups to advance its own interests. Furthermore, each state, regardless of size, has a vested interest in making sure it takes care of itself, and increasing their prominence.

I happen to think that on the whole the U.S. has been a more altruistic state implementing its power than some of those in the past, but I am not naive enough to think it was all altruism or devoid of self-interest.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

apdst said:
You have us to thank for your freedom. If not for us you'd be speaking Japanese now.
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Another uneducated boaster who imagines America was in Australia in WW2 to altruistically save it from the Japs.....groan!
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
So in your honest opinion every country on earth would do as America has done, ever since its fascistic Founding Fathers slimed ashore in Maryland and Massachusetts, if they had the military power to do so?
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We were part of England back then. Focus.
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

Fiddytree said:
Absolutely. Mankind is ruled by self-interest and pursuit of power. Each empire and hegemonic power has tended to use its strength against smaller groups to advance its own interests. Furthermore, each state, regardless of size, has a vested interest in making sure it takes care of itself, and increasing their prominence.

I happen to think that on the whole the U.S. has been a more altruistic state implementing its power than some of those in the past, but I am not naive enough to think it was all altruism or devoid of self-interest.
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So you have no problem with the Germans, the Japanese, Russia, or even Islam wanting their slice of the empire pie?
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
So you have no problem with the Germans, the Japanese, Russia, or even Islam wanting their slice of the empire pie?
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Of course I may have a problem with it. It might not benefit us, or my conception for what out to be. We have friendly-ish relations with the Germans, we have good relations with the Japanese. Their health benefits us, perhaps only to a point before we start to worry, of course. The Russians, well, we don't like them, so any increase in power without an adoption of western democratic institutions and governmental structures concerns us. Islamic empires concern us because of dramatically different orientation to governmental structure and so forth.

That being said, their desire to increase their standing is only natural. Our intentions is to make sure any rise benefits us, or if it is a threat to us, try to ameliorate it as best as possible.
 
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

Fiddytree said:
Of course I may have a problem with it. It might not benefit us, or my conception for what out to be. We have friendly-ish relations with the Germans, we have good relations with the Japanese. Their health benefits us, perhaps only to a point before we start to worry, of course. The Russians, well, we don't like them, so any increase in power without an adoption of western democratic institutions and governmental structures concerns us. Islamic empires concern us because of dramatically different orientation to governmental structure and so forth.

That being said, their desire to increase their standing is only natural. Our intentions is to make sure any rise benefits us, or if it is a threat to us, try to ameliorate it as best as possible.
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Let's establish something here for reference in future discussions between us. Do you approve of Germany and Japan's wars in WW2, and the casualties they caused, fighting for their slice of the empire pie? Do you approve of Islam's (actually about a nutty 0.0002% of Islam's total numbers) current "war" with America and the casualties it has caused and will cause? And do you approve of the millions of casualties America inflicted on comparatively defenseless countries in its greed, sorry, profit motivated wars?
 
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Iran, 6 world powers reach deal on Iranian nuclear program

The Misanthrope said:
Let's establish something here for reference in future discussions between us. Do you approve of Germany and Japan's wars in WW2, and the casualties they caused, fighting for their slice of the empire pie? Do you approve of Islam's (actually about a nutty 0.0002% of Islam's total numbers) current "war" with America and the casualties it has caused and will cause? And do you approve of the millions of casualties America inflicted on comparatively defenseless countries in its greed, sorry, profit motivated wars?
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Approval denotes I support them. I do not, in part, because their actions harmed our interests. Of course, we could cite Manchuria and the Holocaust for additional moral concerns.

To your last question: it depends on the circumstance you cite. If you wish to, say, cite the Indian Wars and the frontier disputes, I would state that both actions were understandable in terms of reactions from both the Tribes and the U.S. On the U.S. side, much of it was foolish and went above and beyond necessity of wartime conduct-thus constituting a moral crime from the U.S.. Nevertheless, it increased our empire. The actions of the Texans in Mexico? While certainly ironic given contemporary complaints of Texans whining about Mexicans not learning the American language, and not respecting the government, their actions ended up benefiting us.

As to war being conducted in pursuit of self-interest, I say, yes. That's the case with war. War is politics through another means.
 
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