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Marine Corp Delays Pull-Up Requirement for Female Marines

Fallenangel said:
And as I already said, except the Caracal battalion these aren't really combat units.

Fallen.
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You said it wasn't really a combat unit. From the link.

Karakal is a special battalion (gdud) inside the realm of Chir that is comprised of both women and men, both of which do all of the training together and exercises/guarding which is required. It is a unit that is full capacity combat and mainly is stationed in the south at the Egyptian border and the Jordanian border. Women need to posses an 82 profiles (Men 72) and pass Gibbush Lochemot (Women Fighters Tryout) in order to be accepted into Karakal. To find out when the gibbushim are, please look at Gibbushim Dates.
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ChrisL said:
You said it wasn't really a combat unit. From the link.
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a. Actually no. What I said was: "although is considered to be a combat battalion, it is not being regarded on the level of the other infantry battalions Zanhanim, Golani, Givaty, and I'm not even talking about the special units inside these battalions.
That is the reason why for most of its history the Caracal battalion was kept on the southern border with Egypt - that was always considered to be the quietest.
They do all the things together with the boys (or better to say that the boys do all the things with them), but they sleep and live in separate quarters."

So please stop trying to twist what I said.


b. Do you know how soldiers in the IDF are being graded as combat or non combat?

Fallen.
 
ChrisL said:
Well obviously you weren't paying attention because that wasn't my argument at all. I acknowledged the fact that the women should be able to pass the same physical fitness tests as the men, and if that is the case then there should not be a problem with it, but then we have people trying to say that the male soldiers cannot control themselves around these female soldiers. Give me a break. That's a crappy excuse for a weak nature.
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LOL. Lets act like they find a few women or at least one to meet the pull up standard. Then what? Do you not realize that being in a controlled school environment is the absolutely easiest time a person spends in the military when compared to being assigned to a combat unit? It only gets harder, much harder, both physically and mentally in the real environment of such units.
 
ChrisL said:
This is so ridiculous. Maybe you should do some research on Israel's IDF. THEY don't seem to have these issues with women being members of the military.
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Which has everything to do with Israel being a very small nation surrounded on all sides by very hostile nations, and the constant deadly attacks they endure on a regular basis by people who want them "wiped off the face of the Earth". They need as much military personnel as they can get.
 
Obviously, the military considers them to be active in combat units, and they are referred to as such.

Another interesting piece of info for you.

During the War of Independence in 1948, women were on full combat status and assumed important combat command positions. After the war, they were no longer allowed into combat positions. They continued as trainers and provided a valuable source of training manpower. From the late 1990s onwards, they are moving back into combat positions, including flight school. The first female fighter pilot graduated in 2001. Before women were re-absorbed into combat units, there used to be a womens' corps which provides professional support and backup that was created as a parallel administrative system to the command system. It was disbanded in 2001. In its place there is a female consultant to the chief of staff.
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ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. Lets act like they find a few women or at least one to meet the pull up standard. Then what? Do you not realize that being in a controlled school environment is the absolutely easiest time a person spends in the military when compared to being assigned to a combat unit? It only gets harder, much harder, both physically and mentally in the real environment of such units.
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And the same goes for men. Are you actually trying to say that no woman can hack it?
 
Fallenangel said:
a. Actually no. What I said was: "although is considered to be a combat battalion, it is not being regarded on the level of the other infantry battalions Zanhanim, Golani, Givaty, and I'm not even talking about the special units inside these battalions.
That is the reason why for most of its history the Caracal battalion was kept on the southern border with Egypt - that was always considered to be the quietest.
They do all the things together with the boys (or better to say that the boys do all the things with them), but they sleep and live in separate quarters."

So please stop trying to twist what I said.


b. Do you know how soldiers in the IDF are being graded as combat or non combat?

Fallen.
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I'm not twisting what you said, I'm just showing you where you were mistaken. It says it is a full capacity combat unit which contradicts your claims.
 
ChrisL said:
Too bad. Women are going to be treated as equals, like it or not. :)
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So you support our troops dying for your dreamed up world of equality. If you have a son, why do you hate him so much you'd place his life in completely unnecessary risks for your phony equality? Why do you think there is something "fair" about a combat operation?
 
ChrisL said:
:roll: Read. It clearly states that women ARE in combat units along with the men. Right now it is on a voluntary basis, but they plan on making it mandatory.
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It seems the word "combat" means different things to different people. Most people consider combat as actually personally engaging with the enemy. That is not the case at the present time.

From your link:

Artillery. ...not actually doing any combat.

Magay: Border Police....that unit isn't to engage in direct combat with enemy forces.

Field intelligence gathering. ...but aren't allowed to join the on foot teams.

Dog trainers and operators. ...but aren't allowed to join combat missions, or missions with special units.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
So you support our troops dying for your dreamed up world of equality. If you have a son, why do you hate him so much you'd place his life in completely unnecessary risks for your phony equality? Why do you think there is something "fair" about a combat operation?
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Oh and now the utterly ridiculous hyperbole begins as you have NO valid argument left. What a complete ignoramus.
 
ChrisL said:
Do you think you should have sex with your coworkers? Can you "suppress" your urges while in a professional environment? What the hell is wrong with you guys anyway?
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Do you live 24/7 with your coworkers for months on end? Cut off from the rest of the world to boot? Serious, what in the hell is wrong with you?
 
polgara said:
It seems the word "combat" means different things to different people. Most people consider combat as actually personally engaging with the enemy. That is not the case at the present time.

From your link:

Artillery. ...not actually doing any combat.

Magay: Border Police....that unit isn't to engage in direct combat with enemy forces.

Field intelligence gathering. ...but aren't allowed to join the on foot teams.

Dog trainers and operators. ...but aren't allowed to join combat missions, or missions with special units.
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The link clearly states that these women are in combat active units, regardless of your personal interpretation. It also proves that, yes, men and women CAN work together in such situations without major problems and without women putting the men's lives at risk.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
Do you live 24/7 with your coworkers for months on end? Cut off from the rest of the world to boot? Serious, what in the hell is wrong with you?
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Another post with absolutely no substance whatsoever. :lol: Amusing.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm not twisting what you said, I'm just showing you where you were mistaken. It says it is a full capacity combat unit which contradicts your claims.
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a. You tried...as you said, and I quote:
ChrisL said:
You said it wasn't really a combat unit. From the link.
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When I actually said no such thing.
What I actually said was :"although is considered to be a combat battalion, it is not being regarded on the level of the other infantry battalions Zanhanim, Golani, Givaty, and I'm not even talking about the special units inside these battalions."

b. I'm still waiting for the answer to part b of my previous post.

Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
a. You tried...as you said, and I quote:


When I actually said no such thing.
What I actually said was :"although is considered to be a combat battalion, it is not being regarded on the level of the other infantry battalions Zanhanim, Golani, Givaty, and I'm not even talking about the special units inside these battalions."

b. I'm still waiting for the answer to part b of my previous post.

Fallen.
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And you have provided nothing to back your claims other than your own words. Sorry buddy, not good enough. The IDF considers these females a welcome part of their combat units and plans to expand their use of these female soldiers in the future. Like it or not. :) There are women who are quite capable and able-bodied to perform such duties in the US as well. It is not THEIR fault if some of the men they have to serve have little to no control over themselves.

Perhaps we should have all women combat units. They would probably be MUCH more effective than the men because they aren't distracted by such things and probably take their jobs much more seriously.
 
ChrisL said:
Of course, I'm not excusing the behavior from the women either. Both should be behaving as if they are at work, regardless of how long it's been. Go jerk off or something.
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Geez. So then you would excuse the guys for doing such when a woman sees them doing it? You would prohibit her from filing some kind of sex charge against any dude for doing such? No, you wouldn't. You would then claim it's not fair she saw them doing such.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
Geez. So then you would excuse the guys for doing such when a woman sees them doing it? You would prohibit her from filing some kind of sex charge against any dude for doing such? No, you wouldn't. You would then claim it's not fair she saw them doing such.
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What in the hell are you talking about? I would just say go do your business in private weirdo.
 
ChrisL said:
You are so contradictory too. Why don't we just give them all porn, then they'll just lose interest in real sex altogether. :lamo
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The PX can't do that anymore. Females complained.
 
ChrisL said:
Anyone who is willing to put their life on the line for their country is an asset to the military. By observation of this thread, it's pretty clear that the problem isn't the women but the men and how they look at their women counterparts. Grow up!
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No, "anyone" is not. Some make it to hard for a unit to successfully complete it's mission. That's why they are booted out for not meeting standards.

Many of the posts in this thread show that some people are eager to get our soldiers unnecessarily killed for their silly political correctness.
 
Another thing I just read is that pornographic material is not "banned" by the military. Men and women can still by it on their own time. The military will just not provide it to them on their bases.

Defense officials "don't want to take porn away from soldiers," says Patrick Trueman, a former federal prosecutor who now works with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group. "They say, 'well, 40% of this magazine is sexually explicit pictures, but 60% is writing or advertising, so the totality is not sexually explicit.' That's ridiculous."

Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., who sponsored the law, says the military is skirting Congress' intent. He notes the material also could contribute to a hostile environment for female military personnel. "If soldiers want to read that stuff, they can walk down the street and buy it somewhere else," Bartlett says. "I don't want (the military) to help."
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ItAin'tFree said:
No, "anyone" is not. Some make it to hard for a unit to successfully complete it's mission. That's why they are booted out for not meeting standards.

Many of the posts in this thread show that some people are eager to get our soldiers unnecessarily killed for their silly political correctness.
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Until you can show PROOF of where soldiers were killed specifically because of a female soldier, then your argument is nonsensical.
 
ChrisL said:
The link clearly states that these women are in combat active units, regardless of your personal interpretation. It also proves that, yes, men and women CAN work together in such situations without major problems and without women putting the men's lives at risk.
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My interpretation is not the issue. :shrug: The IDF makes their own rules, and so far women are not sent into combat situations, although they may be in combat active units. As Israel becomes more comfortable with women in the military, that could change, and it probably will, because Israel has few friends in that part of the world. Many women are as capable of defending their country as the men are.
 
polgara said:
My interpretation is not the issue. :shrug: The IDF makes their own rules, and so far women are not sent into combat situations, although they may be in combat active units. As Israel becomes more comfortable with women in the military, that could change, and it probably will, because Israel has few friends in that part of the world. Many women are as capable of defending their country as the men are.
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That is not accurate according to the IDF. They refer to these men and women as active combat units. I guess you would have to take it up with them as to what they consider a combat unit. They are sent to protect the border where they do risk a combat type of situation and are equipped and trained to deal with those incidents.
 
ChrisL said:
And you have provided nothing to back your claims other than your own words. Sorry buddy, not good enough.
The IDF considers these females a welcome part of their combat units and plans to expand their use of these female soldiers in the future. Like it or not. :) There are women who are quite capable and able-bodied to perform such duties in the US as well. It is not THEIR fault if some of the men they have to serve have little to no control over themselves.

Perhaps we should have all women combat units. They would probably be MUCH more effective than the men because they aren't distracted by such things and probably take their jobs much more seriously.
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Nice one, as it again consists of "counter arguments" to claims that I didn't make.

So instead;
a. Maybe you should apologize for trying to twist my words few posts ago.

b.Try answering my question, and actually educate yourself regarding the IDF:
Do you know how soldiers in the IDF are being graded as combat or non combat?
...Just a hint, 03 =/= 05 =/= 07

Fallen.
 
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