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Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate’ fo

AGENT J

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Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate’ for LGBT - The Washington Post

SPRING CITY, Pa. — Frank Schaefer gets to keep calling himself a Methodist pastor — at least for the next 30 days.
The United Methodist clergyman convicted of breaking church law for officiating at his son’s same-sex wedding was suspended late Tuesday, and ordered by a jury of his fellow pastors to surrender his credentials in a month if he can’t bring himself to adhere to the laws of the church’s Book of Discipline.


Schaefer said he had no intention of changing his mind about the church’s teaching on homosexuality, declaring he would perform more gay marriages if asked.
“I feel I have to be an advocate, an outspoken advocate for all lesbian, gay, transgender and bisexual people,” Schaefer told reporters after learning his sentence, adding that he expects to be defrocked when his 30-day suspension is up.
Before the punishment was announced, Schaefer, who was convicted for presiding over his son’s 2007 wedding ceremony in Massachusetts, told the jury that he is unrepentant.
Rather than beg for mercy, the pastor upped the stakes.
The church “needs to stop judging people based on their sexual orientation,” he told jurors. “We have to stop the hate speech. We have to stop treating them as second-class Christians.”

back up links:
Minister who married gay son becoming gay rights activist - CBS News
Pastor Frank Schaefer gets 30-day suspension for officiating gay son
Pa. Pastor Who Performed Gay Wedding Suspended | TIME.com
Pastor who married gay son suspended--with a catch | MSNBC
Gay Marriage Pastor Suspended For 30 Days - Philadelphia News, Weather and Sports from WTXF FOX 29
Pa. Methodist pastor convicted under church law of officiating gay wedding suspended 30 days - The Washington Post


AWESOME!!!!!

good for pastor Frank Schaefer for standing up for his son and what he believes is right.

Also be clear, i also FULLY support the church's right to suspend him etc. That is their right and thier choice, they are free and clear to make it.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Excellent! The man should be awarded a medal not canned. I'm curious though, at the end of the month, what if he refuses to give up his pastorship? I mean they can keep him from having a congregation, for a while anyway, by kicking out of a particular church, but can they revoke his credentials in such a way as to matter to the state that already recognizes him as a pastor? I didn't think that was possible. So perhaps he should just re-congregate with like minded parishioners
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Excellent! The man should be awarded a medal not canned. I'm curious though, at the end of the month, what if he refuses to give up his pastorship? I mean they can keep him from having a congregation, for a while anyway, by kicking out of a particular church, but can they revoke his credentials in such a way as to matter to the state that already recognizes him as a pastor? I didn't think that was possible. So perhaps he should just re-congregate with like minded parishioners

hmmm thats a good question, i honestly dont know

but you are right there are 100s of churches and millions of people that are fine with his conduct so

I havent read all the articles yet, ill let you know if i come across anything that answers that.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Excellent! The man should be awarded a medal not canned. I'm curious though, at the end of the month, what if he refuses to give up his pastorship? I mean they can keep him from having a congregation, for a while anyway, by kicking out of a particular church, but can they revoke his credentials in such a way as to matter to the state that already recognizes him as a pastor? I didn't think that was possible. So perhaps he should just re-congregate with like minded parishioners

Basically what they will remove is his credentials as established through the Methodist Church. He is then free to go preach at any non-denominational church that will have him, but no longer for the UMC.

Really, he should go ahead and turn them in, he's announced that he has no intention to fall back under the Book of Discipline. Frankly his behavior has been, well, embarrassing. One of the things that has (usually) hallmarked the Methodist Church is that we are a "paragraph-answer" faith, with the ability to speak with love to those with whom we disagree. This guy.... hasn't managed that, and has demonstrated the same kind of emotional immaturity in the discussion as we would expect from a grandstander :(.

My additional critique of this guy is the same as my critique of Rob Portman - if you change your beliefs when they become personally inconvenient then you don't really have "beliefs". You have "preferences".
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Basically what they will remove is his credentials as established through the Methodist Church. He is then free to go preach at any non-denominational church that will have him, but no longer for the UMC.

Really, he should go ahead and turn them in, he's announced that he has no intention to fall back under the Book of Discipline. Frankly his behavior has been, well, embarrassing. One of the things that has (usually) hallmarked the Methodist Church is that we are a "paragraph-answer" faith, with the ability to speak with love to those with whom we disagree. This guy.... hasn't managed that, and has demonstrated the same kind of emotional immaturity in the discussion as we would expect from a grandstander :(.

My additional critique of this guy is the same as my critique of Rob Portman - if you change your beliefs when they become personally inconvenient then you don't really have "beliefs". You have "preferences".
Is this opposite day or WTF!!!! I don't believe he could've shown more love with those the UMC disagrees than to wed to who love each other. How is being loving and caring to his son, not in that vein? It seems to me that it's the gang who's trying to oust him that have problems "with love to those with whom we disagree."
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Basically what they will remove is his credentials as established through the Methodist Church. He is then free to go preach at any non-denominational church that will have him, but no longer for the UMC.

Really, he should go ahead and turn them in, he's announced that he has no intention to fall back under the Book of Discipline. Frankly his behavior has been, well, embarrassing. One of the things that has (usually) hallmarked the Methodist Church is that we are a "paragraph-answer" faith, with the ability to speak with love to those with whom we disagree. This guy.... hasn't managed that, and has demonstrated the same kind of emotional immaturity in the discussion as we would expect from a grandstander :(.

My additional critique of this guy is the same as my critique of Rob Portman - if you change your beliefs when they become personally inconvenient then you don't really have "beliefs". You have "preferences".
Is this opposite day or WTF!!!! I don't believe he could've shown more love with those the UMC disagrees than to wed two who love each other. How is being loving and caring to his son, not in that vein? It seems to me that it's the gang who's trying to oust him that have problems "with love to those with whom we disagree."

If this posts twice, sorry. I can't seem to edit anymore with a double post. I've mentioned it in feedback, but I'm being mostly ignored it seems.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Is this opposite day or WTF!!!! I don't believe he could've shown more love with those the UMC disagrees than to wed to who love each other.

:doh

He doesn't disagree with them. He was willing to violate his oaths and abuse the trust placed in him in order to support those whom he agreed with. He then accused the entire rest of the Church of "Hate Speech" for daring to disagree with him. :roll:
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

1.) Basically what they will remove is his credentials as established through the Methodist Church. He is then free to go preach at any non-denominational church that will have him, but no longer for the UMC.

2.) Really, he should go ahead and turn them in, he's announced that he has no intention to fall back under the Book of Discipline. Frankly his behavior has been, well, embarrassing.
3.) One of the things that has (usually) hallmarked the Methodist Church is that we are a "paragraph-answer" faith, with the ability to speak with love to those with whom we disagree. This guy.... hasn't managed that, and has demonstrated the same kind of emotional immaturity in the discussion as we would expect from a grandstander :(.

4.)My additional critique of this guy is the same as my critique of Rob Portman - if you change your beliefs when they become personally inconvenient then you don't really have "beliefs". You have "preferences".

1.) why there are UMCs find with his conduct
2.) its weird you are embarrassed by his behavior, why?
3.) really? hmmm he kept quite about it for YEARS then when they put him on trail he spoke his piece, doesnt seem like grandstanding at all. No trail no speech.
SInce he has 3 gays sons i think he is a pinnacle of acceptance and showing love to people that are directly against his own blood.

could you point out what you think the grandstanding is and where he didnt show love and showed immaturity? I mean years of being around people that are directly against your blood and thier rights but yet he only spoke out now once on trial? seems mature to me but hey thats just my opinion.

4.) when did his beliefs change? did he say that?
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Is this opposite day or WTF!!!! I don't believe he could've shown more love with those the UMC disagrees than to wed to who love each other. How is being loving and caring to his son, not in that vein? It seems to me that it's the gang who's trying to oust him that have problems "with love to those with whom we disagree."

agreed 100%
he has been fine with it for years until they put him on trial
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

:doh

He doesn't disagree with them. He was willing to violate his oaths and abuse the trust placed in him in order to support those whom he agreed with. He then accused the entire rest of the Church of "Hate Speech" for daring to disagree with him. :roll:

really can you show us thats the reason why? seems you are just making stuff up. How do you know what motivated him to say that and what "speech" he was referring to?
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Is this opposite day or WTF!!!! I don't believe he could've shown more love with those the UMC disagrees than to wed two who love each other. How is being loving and caring to his son, not in that vein? It seems to me that it's the gang who's trying to oust him that have problems "with love to those with whom we disagree."

If this posts twice, sorry. I can't seem to edit anymore with a double post. I've mentioned it in feedback, but I'm being mostly ignored it seems.

It did that for me with FIREFOX and I also posted on it. Was urged to use Explorer.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

I agree with the original post.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

My wife's father is a Methodist minister. He does not oppose gay rights and it seems most the members of his large congregation don't either, but it is an evolving process.

In the OP story, it wasn't the pastor's congregation that made this decision.That was his son appears to have made the difference. Prejudices often fall away when it becomes your own family member you are suppose to reject or condemn. But this also means he had a stake in his decision either way.

I would question his son having his father do this given it would cost his father his career and income. The father sacrificed for him, but not the son for the father. In my opinion the son should not have used his father this way. Just my opinion.
 
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Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

good for pastor Frank Schaefer for standing up for his son and what he believes is right.

Also be clear, i also FULLY support the church's right to suspend him etc. That is their right and thier choice, they are free and clear to make it.

Agree with both statements.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Excellent! The man should be awarded a medal not canned. I'm curious though, at the end of the month, what if he refuses to give up his pastorship? I mean they can keep him from having a congregation, for a while anyway, by kicking out of a particular church, but can they revoke his credentials in such a way as to matter to the state that already recognizes him as a pastor? I didn't think that was possible. So perhaps he should just re-congregate with like minded parishioners

They can't stop him from anything.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

It did that for me with FIREFOX and I also posted on it. Was urged to use Explorer.
It's never been a problem for me till about three days ago. It is Firefox, I don't have IE and don't really want to install it. One browser should be enough. I've cleared cookies, rolled Firefox back to an earlier version, and allowed scripts globally and still no luck. Thanks for the info.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Large religious organizations, like any organization (or government), evolve slowly, but do evolve. For example, while the Catholic church condemns divorce without church permission, and do not allow fornication/unmarried sex or cohabitation, they do not put them out of the church for it. However, such priests won't do a wedding for someone divorced UNLESS the church first has approved of the divorce (which can be done retroactive to the legal divorce.)

Generally, if anyone curses the doctrines of their own denomination and defies them while doing it, they will be removed.

Obviously he should stand on his beliefs, and it likely they would not have done this if he preached for gay rights equality. But what he did will get you fired.

BOSSES - and that's who the home office of the church is - give employees bad and dumb work orders all the time. You can complain of it, but if you just break it you can be fired unless the work order was illegal or clearly dangerous. That is true even with the strictest union job protection contract.

Again, his son shouldn't have put him in this position, but I get the feeling he wanted to be a martyr maybe anyway.

BUT was this is best course to change the Methodist Church? OR should he have instead used his status, pulpit and even right to speak at Methodist conventions? "The pen (and voice) is mighty than the sword." But he chose the sword. I think he could have done more in the long run if he had stayed in the church. Was suicide (analogous) really his best choice among his options?

I don't think so. He could, instead, have attended his son's wedding elsewhere officiated by a non-Methodist minister - but his father could have given a blessing and prayer for the wedding, members of the congregation there - and then had the reception at the church. He could have given them both communion and from the pulpit bragged of his son and his spouse, while making his statements/sermon in support of gay rights. He COULD have pushed the envelope without the employment and status suicide - ie to not have become a hothead.

It is open in my wife's father's church - and it is a big one, very mainstream - that he and the majority of members, elders, teachers etc support gay marriage rights and LGTB rights. And that is largely probably due to family relationships and friendships - personally and within the church - in such feelings and changing attitudes. BUT the church itself is owned by the denomination. So while he would vote at conventions to allow gay marriages (and gay ministers), he and the members aren't going to take over the church analogous to barracading themselves in it either - nor take actions known to get them permanently evicted from it either.
 
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Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

It's never been a problem for me till about three days ago. It is Firefox, I don't have IE and don't really want to install it. One browser should be enough. I've cleared cookies, rolled Firefox back to an earlier version, and allowed scripts globally and still no luck. Thanks for the info.

Then DO NOT USE THE BACK BUTTON when doing messages. And if you go to edit it and it adds all the computer cyptology (html language), if you submit that is likely going to also be a double post (or a double thread if your starting one.)
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Then DO NOT USE THE BACK BUTTON when doing messages. And if you go to edit it and it adds all the computer cyptology (html language), if you submit that is likely going to also be a double post (or a double thread if your starting one.)
When I try to edit, or even reply though all I get is a blanked out, unusable grey dialog box. With the reply, I can double click the reply and get to a clean new page, but that isn't working for edit. So I guess for a while y'all will just have to forgive some typos and what not, and I'll go back to the old way before forums could be easily edited and just add a post with the correction after an * for anything more important than a typo.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

They can't stop him from anything.
Well, he is an employee. He can be fired. He should quit, if he finds that his proffession is no longer one he can fulfill in good conscience... but it looks like he wants to see himself as some kind of martyr. :(
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Well, he is an employee. He can be fired. He should quit, if he finds that his proffession is no longer one he can fulfill in good conscience... but it looks like he wants to see himself as some kind of martyr. :(

They can't stop him from being a preacher, is my point. They can't even stop him from being a Methodist preacher. He just can't be a Methodist preacher in their orginization.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

They can't stop him from being a preacher, is my point. They can't even stop him from being a Methodist preacher. He just can't be a Methodist preacher in their orginization.
Well, actually they can - thats what losing his credentials would mean. He could still preach, sure, but not as a Methodist minister.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

Well, actually they can - thats what losing his credentials would mean. He could still preach, sure, but not as a Methodist minister.

He could still be a Methodist preacher. They don't have a copy write on "Methodist".
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

He could still be a Methodist preacher. They don't have a copy write on "Methodist".
:shrug:
Sure, and I could call myself the junior Senator from New York if I wanted. But I wouldn't be without an election, and he won't be a Methodist minister without credentials.
 
Re: Pa. pastor suspended for performing gay wedding says he’ll be ‘outspoken advocate

:shrug:
Sure, and I could call myself the junior Senator from New York if I wanted. But I wouldn't be without an election, and he won't be a Methodist minister without credentials.

are you saying the Methodist churches in my area, that are fine with his conduct, dont have credentials?
 
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