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Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges[W:287]

Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

The same credible reason that they left the accident (crime) scene where help was available.

I don't know why you're focusing on the fact that she left the scene and disappeared for two hours. It doesn't seem important to me. Just curious

The accused didn't know this, so it had nothing to do with his intent or motive. And it doesn't show that she was a threat to him. It's not like crashing your car while drunk driving and then leaving the scene is a thing that motivates people to break into a persons' home and hurt them.

If I had to guess about why she disappeared, I'd say that either she wanted to take some time to sober up, or she banged her head and was disoriented from the crash.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

I don't know why you're focusing on the fact that she left the scene and disappeared for two hours. It doesn't seem important to me. Just curious

The accused didn't know this, so it had nothing to do with his intent or motive. And it doesn't show that she was a threat to him. It's not like crashing your car while drunk driving and then leaving the scene is a thing that motivates people to break into a persons' home and hurt them.

If I had to guess about why she disappeared, I'd say that either she wanted to take some time to sober up, or she banged her head and was disoriented from the crash.

My point is that it shows that she was certainly more likely to have made other bad decisions and had little concern for the law. Everyone seems convinced that she merely knocked on the door - but based on what?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

My point is that it shows that she was certainly more likely to have made other bad decisions and had little concern for the law. Everyone seems convinced that she merely knocked on the door - but based on what?

True. I bet she's crossed on the green, and maybe she's dated the wrong guy. But still, I don't see how it says anything about her posing any sort of threat to the homeowner. He did not know this

As far as why people think she merely knocked on the door, it may be because the article says:

Police say McBride crashed a car in nearby Detroit and knocked on the homeowner's door afterwards, looking for assistance. McBride was "bloodied, disoriented and appeared to be confused" after the crash, according to witnesses, Worthy said. Wafer told police he thought McBride was breaking in; he also said his shotgun went off by accident.

Few details about what happened the early morning of McBride's death had been released before Friday. The Wayne County medical examiner's office ruled her death was a homicide, finding she received a fatal shotgun blast to the face, fired from a distance.

"There is no evidence of forced entry into the home," Prosecutor Kym Worthy told reporters Friday after announcing the charges, which also included manslaughter and firearms possession during the attempted commission of a felony or commission of a felony. "Our evidence shows she knocked on the locked screen door."

Now it's possible that she did not "merely" knock on the door. Maybe she also shouted something like "Please help me!" or even "Let me in!". But it doesn't seem like there's any evidence that she said or did anything that would make someone think she was a threat.

So I'll turn your question around: Some people seem convinced that she did pose a threat - but based on what?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Where are you getting that? ^^
I am glad you asked.

The evidence showed that homeowner Theodore Wafer, 54, shot McBride through a locked screen door after opening the storm door, Worthy said.
Murder charges after racially-tinged US shooting


And that he obviously has a storm door.
renisha-mcbride-investigation-continues-today1.jpg



Which has since been removed for evidence.

1-DOOR.gif


Storm door opened, screen door locked. :shrug:
Now I have no idea if what has been reported is true, but that would be one hell of a thing to attribute to Prosecutor Worthy as saying if she hadn't said it.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

As far as why people think she merely knocked on the door, it may be because the article says:
Which ignores the 911 call where he says she had been banging on his door.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

True. I bet she's crossed on the green, and maybe she's dated the wrong guy. But still, I don't see how it says anything about her posing any sort of threat to the homeowner. He did not know this

As far as why people think she merely knocked on the door, it may be because the article says:



Now it's possible that she did not "merely" knock on the door. Maybe she also shouted something like "Please help me!" or even "Let me in!". But it doesn't seem like there's any evidence that she said or did anything that would make someone think she was a threat.

So I'll turn your question around: Some people seem convinced that she did pose a threat - but based on what?

The same article that said that she knocked on the door also said that the homeowner thought that she was breaking in. It did not say that the presumption of a break in was based only upon the knocking at the door, it left out any mention of why the break in was suspected. Much is unknown, and likely too remain so, since the homeowner has been charged and has lawyered up.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

The same article that said that she knocked on the door also said that the homeowner thought that she was breaking in. It did not say that the presumption of a break in was based only upon the knocking at the door, it left out any mention of why the break in was suspected. Much is unknown, and likely too remain so, since the homeowner has been charged and has lawyered up.

Just to be clear - the only evidence that shows she did something to give the accused a reason to believe that she represented a threat is that the accused said he was afraid she was breaking in.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Just to be clear - the only evidence that shows she did something to give the accused a reason to believe that she represented a threat is that the accused said he was afraid she was breaking in.
And?
He isn't claiming he shot because she did anything.
He claims the firearm accidentally discharged.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Manslaughter, yes, but murder? I just don't see it. Murder has to involve malice, and I don't see malice here. I do see manslaugher, but murder charges are ridiculous. What does everybody else think?

I have not checked MI laws, but 2ND degree murder is not premeditated or known as Malice Aforethought.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

And?
He isn't claiming he shot because she did anything.
He claims the firearm accidentally discharged.

Which part of "Just to be clear" did you not understand?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Just to be clear - the only evidence that shows she did something to give the accused a reason to believe that she represented a threat is that the accused said he was afraid she was breaking in.

Yep. The accused is claiming accidental discharge of the gun after some sort of initial presumed threat caused him to get the gun - he is not claiming that he was ever actually threatened (no SYG claim is being made).
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Which part of "Just to be clear" did you not understand?
And what was it you did not understand about my reply?
Your point was meaningless as he didn't claim she was shot for doing anything.
He claims the firearm accidentally discharged.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

And what was it you did not understand about my reply?

It's relevance

Your point was meaningless as he didn't claim she was shot for doing anything.

Your point is meaningless because ttwtt and I weren't talking about why he claimed he shot her
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

I am glad you asked.
The evidence showed that homeowner Theodore Wafer, 54, shot McBride through a locked screen door after opening the storm door, Worthy said.
Murder charges after racially-tinged US shooting


And that he obviously has a storm door.
renisha-mcbride-investigation-continues-today1.jpg



Which has since been removed for evidence.

1-DOOR.gif


Storm door opened, screen door locked. :shrug:
Now I have no idea if what has been reported is true, but that would be one hell of a thing to attribute to Prosecutor Worthy as saying if she hadn't said it.

Well, obviously the paper got it wrong. He shot through the storm door after opening the interior one. (Since there's no hole in the interior door, that's pretty evident.)
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

He shot through the storm door after opening the interior one.
Really? That isn't what the Prosecutor is reported as saying.
Where is the broken glass? I ask because every pic and video of the door I see, shows reflection off the glass.

Well, obviously the paper got it wrong.
Really?
You know that how?

I am not saying the report is accurate, as I understand that mistakes can be made.
But you are going to have to show me that it was a mistake, and not just something you believe.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Your point is meaningless because ttwtt and I weren't talking about why he claimed he shot her
Tell it to someone who will believe you.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Well, obviously the paper got it wrong. He shot through the storm door after opening the interior one. (Since there's no hole in the interior door, that's pretty evident.)

Just to point out: Excon's top photo doesn't show anything of value at all, since the shot was to the face, and that photo doesn't show a face level shot of the doors. His claim was that she had the screen door open, and he has no evidence of that. If the screen door was removed, I would imagine it is likely it was removed because it is the door that has the hole in it (since the report says she was shot through it). If the outer door was locked and the inner door was open, this would mean that the homeowner opened the inner door. I don't see how this fits into the scenario. I would like to hear his explanation for this.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

1ST degree;

a) Murder perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait, or any other willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing.

Second degree is not premeditated.

You are not telling me something I do not know.
You asked for the law. I provided it.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

You are not telling me something I do not know.
You asked for the law. I provided it.

Oh, sorry, my error.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Really? That isn't what the Prosecutor is reported as saying.
Where is the broken glass? I ask because every pic and video of the door I see, shows reflection off the glass.

Really?
You know that how?

I am not saying the report is accurate, as I understand that mistakes can be made.
But you are going to have to show me that it was a mistake, and not just something you believe.

It looks like a screen door without glass to me.
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

Really? That isn't what the Prosecutor is reported as saying.
Where is the broken glass? I ask because every pic and video of the door I see, shows reflection off the glass.

Really?
You know that how?

I am not saying the report is accurate, as I understand that mistakes can be made.
But you are going to have to show me that it was a mistake, and not just something you believe.

What is it that you believe? That there was a storm door and a screen door? I fail to see that it's a material difference in any case -- whether it was glass or screen. He obviously had the main interior door open. It is reported that the exterior door/screen or glass was locked. What is it that you presume happened that is contradictory to the photo you posted above?
 
Re: Homeowner in Renisha McBride's killing to face murder charges

If he felt threatened, he should have called the cops instead of shooting someone.

That's why it's murder

If he truly felt threatened, then self defense would have been recognized.

It is acceptable to take a life in self defense without calling the police first if there is insufficient time.

That's why it is called 'self defense'.

Obviously, the prosecutor felt that there was no evidence to support the homeowner's claim of feeling threatened.
 
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