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America's top UN diplomat has high praise for 'Hanoi Jane' [W:306]

Bush has mostly kept quiet, but Asshole Cheney certainly hasn't.

So what? "Asshole" Obama hasn't quit blaming Bush for everything he makes worse.
 
Sorry homie, you can't have it both ways. You can't claim you're pro-freedom and then back a dictatorship which does everything but support freedom. You can't say you "rebuilt" a democracy, after having supported a dictatorship. You can't even claim "well, our dictatorships weren't as bad" and then say that others were. You can't play victim and say "Well! They did it too!"

So, your weasel like attitude about the Cold War aside, my point is basically this: Both the US and the USSR were camps of economic influence. Nothing more nothing less. Both benefited by supporting dictatorships at the cost of millions of people enslaved by either pro-USSR or pro-US dictatorships. The entire Cold War, right vs. wrong mentality is dependent on which side of the field you're on. The rest of us see it as being about two powers seeking to benefit economically from other nations and not giving one ounce of a **** about "freedoms". :shrug:

Gosh, Man, I am so so sorry, I was totally unaware that there were some guidelines that say somewhere, apparently, that you get to establish a prohibition against me telling the situation as it actually is, not how “we” [read: you] would "want" or like it to be.

Diopter problems perhaps? Cogency complications?

Wrong. So truly utterly bewilderingly wrong.

You most certainly can do exactly that. Hell, we did it. Plain for anybody, any simpleton included, or at least ones that come without ideological blinders, to see. I mean, from every single aspect I can readily think of you are wrong. Who told you… or more to the point, why are you trying to tell me that I, we, cannot look at some dictatorships as being worse than others? Mao's was worse than Stalin's which was worse than Hitler’s which was worse than Pol Pot's all of which were way way worse than Franco or Marcos [ you mentioned the Aquinos, didn’t say which one so assume both, but I would presume you might actually have been talking the Marcos, but doesn’t really matter as neither were near as bad as any of those lefty regimes mentioned ].

If your premise were to be played out to the end, we didn’t start off perfect, and if we cannot even attempt a transition from our imperfection, then we are not allowed, by your calculus, to even improve on an ongoing basis? To evolve, to “progress”?

Too bad, thank goodness we don't always listen to y'all, cause we have already done it.

So, might that be just plain stupid talk, by any slim chance?

And, no way….nooooo way. There is actually [ again, noooooo way ] actually an economic aspect to this? OMG, I just realized for the very first time, ever, in my life, since I was born, wowwww… economics is in EVERYTHING. So, I guess It might be pretty easy to weave an economic aspect in there, eh… since it really cannot be absent no matter what? Yeah, so what, we could not be other than two economic camps, especially since both systems are different, both are ecomomic [ communism combining political and economic ]... so again, what is your major point other than the absolute obvious?

What is funny is that your side wants to hold our side to this white glove standard and you know there will be dust and dirt there when you touch the real world. Your side, the left, has swept an unbelievably large pile, a bulbous billowing barge load, under the rug...that does not even come close to hiding it to those of us who look even slightly in that direction.

And yanno, I really admire you folks that put yourselves out there, defend the indefensible with such a stoic straight face…. Wait, sorry, now I cannot really say that with a straight face…


The bottom line is, most everything that comes from the left causes more misery. Don’t blame me, I am just the messenger. Below that bottom line is this… your side never seems to see what your side does so wrong, deadly wrong, but you see every blemish on ours… and, more importantly, you like to sacrifice good and better on the altar of perfection… and we already know what kind of talk that is.
 
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So what? "Asshole" Obama hasn't quit blaming Bush for everything he makes worse.

When is the last time Obama even mentioned Bush's name? Geez, give it a rest.
 
There was a time when EX presidents kept their mouth shut about the job the guy who took their job.............Have you ever heard GWB criticize Obama? Common courtesy.......Carter put that tradition aside big time and all Obama does is blame everything bad on Bush.
You got that right... I am hoping you will rethink your view on "good" ol Jimmy then.
 
When is the last time Obama even mentioned Bush's name? Geez, give it a rest.
OMG, you are joking right? Oh, He tried it, but everybody knows, even him, that its laughable now...when you are in your second term, you can only really blame the administration before you, and that is now Obama... so we see there is no real resolution to his problem. I was wondering how he is gonna blame GW for Obamadon'tcare tho? And you know you cannot say he didn't do that his first time, hell, it was incessant.

Guess this is a case for WWAS....What Would Alinsky Say, eh?
 
Gosh, Man, I am so so sorry, I was totally unaware that there were some guidelines that say somewhere, apparently, that you get to establish a prohibition against me telling the situation as it actually is, not how “we” [read: you] would "want" or like it to be.

Diopter problems perhaps? Cogency complications?

Wrong. So truly utterly bewilderingly wrong.

You most certainly can do exactly that. Hell, we did it. Plain for anybody, any simpleton included, or at least ones that come without ideological blinders, to see. I mean, from every single aspect I can readily think of you are wrong. Who told you… or more to the point, why are you trying to tell me that I, we, cannot look at some dictatorships as being worse than others? Mao's was worse than Stalin's which was worse than Hitler’s which was worse than Pol Pot's all of which were way way worse than Franco or Marcos [ you mentioned the Aquinos, didn’t say which one so assume both, but I would presume you might actually have been talking the Marcos, but doesn’t really matter as neither were near as bad as any of those lefty regimes mentioned ].

If your premise were to be played out to the end, we didn’t start off perfect, and if we cannot even attempt a transition from our imperfection, then we are not allowed, by your calculus, to even improve on an ongoing basis? To evolve, to “progress”?

Too bad, thank goodness we don't always listen to y'all, cause we have already done it.

So, might that be just plain stupid talk, by any slim chance?

And, no way….nooooo way. There is actually [ again, noooooo way ] actually an economic aspect to this? OMG, I just realized for the very first time, ever, in my life, since I was born, wowwww… economics is in EVERYTHING. So, I guess It might be pretty easy to weave an economic aspect in there, eh… since it really cannot be absent no matter what? Yeah, so what, we could not be other than two economic camps, especially since both systems are different, both are ecomomic [ communism combining political and economic ]... so again, what is your major point other than the absolute obvious?

What is funny is that your side wants to hold our side to this white glove standard and you know there will be dust and dirt there when you touch the real world. Your side, the left, has swept an unbelievably large pile, a bulbous billowing barge load, under the rug...that does not even come close to hiding it to those of us who look even slightly in that direction.

And yanno, I really admire you folks that put yourselves out there, defend the indefensible with such a stoic straight face…. Wait, sorry, now I cannot really say that with a straight face…


The bottom line is, most everything that comes from the left causes more misery. Don’t blame me, I am just the messenger. Below that bottom line is this… your side never seems to see what your side does so wrong, deadly wrong, but you see every blemish on ours… and, more importantly, you like to sacrifice good and better on the altar of perfection… and we already know what kind of talk that is.

All that diatribe so you could admit that yes, the Vietnam war was about US defending US economic interests and had nothing to do with a Disney Freedom. Well, at least you finally bowed down and gave up the jingoist bull****. And nope - you don't get to deem "one dictatorship" as being worse than another. Specially when the number of deaths is in the millions. Why? Simple - any deeming of which would be worse is nothing more than political bias at work. Yeah, Mao was worse than Hitler. According to whom? Jews? Doubt it very much. Romas? I doubt they'd agree. They'd say Hitler was worse than Mao. The Taiwanese? Well, they'd say Mao was worse than Hitler. The Tibetans? They'd claim the same. So who am I to believe? You? Nope.

You've basically backed down out of every argument you made that we had some sort of higher ground and have been reduced to "Well! I get to say which was worse because I'm a conservative!" - Spare me the nonsense. I'm also glad you didn't pick up on the South Korea topic. I would have loved to see you defend a dictator like Park while claiming he was some sort of freedom lover. Glad you reduced your opinion to "Well he wasn't that bad!"

Now, seeing how you've basically just started the never ending story on who had the worst dictators and I have shown that neither side was interested in freedoms as per their support of dictatorships, do you have anything to add? Or are you going to argue that one dictatorship is better than another? Glad to see those Reagan Conservative Values at work.
 
OMG, you are joking right? Oh, He tried it, but everybody knows, even him, that its laughable now...when you are in your second term, you can only really blame the administration before you, and that is now Obama... so we see there is no real resolution to his problem. I was wondering how he is gonna blame GW for Obamadon'tcare tho? And you know you cannot say he didn't do that his first time, hell, it was incessant.

Guess this is a case for WWAS....What Would Alinsky Say, eh?

Oh boy, an Alinsky reference. Everybody drink.
 
When is the last time Obama even mentioned Bush's name? Geez, give it a rest.

I won't take advice from you. But you could try to give Obama some. BTW, the last big one I remember was back in May or so. But I'm sure I have missed some because the only thing Obama has been good at was blaming everything on Bush.
 
I won't take advice from you. But you could try to give Obama some. BTW, the last big one I remember was back in May or so. But I'm sure I have missed some because the only thing Obama has been good at was blaming everything on Bush.

Citation needed, please.
 
"If this photo exists, that would shatter most illusions of her meeting with enemy civilians in order to demonstrate that they're people too, which makes complete sense if you're anti-war. It's a lot of what being anti-war is about."-Cardinal.

That had to sting.

Not really, because I never actually denied the photo existed, which is why I asked if anybody could find it for me. Now, if I had said, "There's no such photo, retards! Bwahahaha!" then it would have stung.
 
Oh boy, an Alinsky reference. Everybody drink.

I hope "communism" and "socialist" aren't drinking game words either, or we'd all die of liver disease by the end of the day.
 
I hope "communism" and "socialist" aren't drinking game words either, or we'd all die of liver disease by the end of the day.

You've got to wonder when the righties will get sick of flogging Saul Alinsky's 40-years-dead corpse, especially since they use the exact same "Alinsky tactics" that they constantly piss and moan about lefties allegedly doing. Quite a projection racket they've got going over there.
 
You've got to wonder when the righties will get sick of flogging Saul Alinsky's 40-years-dead corpse, especially since they use the exact same "Alinsky tactics" that they constantly piss and moan about lefties allegedly doing. Quite a projection racket they've got going over there.

No no no, they have to use those tactics because the liberals are using them. Don't you see the awful position they've been put in?
 
All that diatribe so you could admit that yes, the Vietnam war was about US defending US economic interests and had nothing to do with a Disney Freedom. Well, at least you finally bowed down and gave up the jingoist bull****. And nope - you don't get to deem "one dictatorship" as being worse than another. Specially when the number of deaths is in the millions. Why? Simple - any deeming of which would be worse is nothing more than political bias at work. Yeah, Mao was worse than Hitler. According to whom? Jews? Doubt it very much. Romas? I doubt they'd agree. They'd say Hitler was worse than Mao. The Taiwanese? Well, they'd say Mao was worse than Hitler. The Tibetans? They'd claim the same. So who am I to believe? You? Nope.

You've basically backed down out of every argument you made that we had some sort of higher ground and have been reduced to "Well! I get to say which was worse because I'm a conservative!" - Spare me the nonsense. I'm also glad you didn't pick up on the South Korea topic. I would have loved to see you defend a dictator like Park while claiming he was some sort of freedom lover. Glad you reduced your opinion to "Well he wasn't that bad!"

Now, seeing how you've basically just started the never ending story on who had the worst dictators and I have shown that neither side was interested in freedoms as per their support of dictatorships, do you have anything to add? Or are you going to argue that one dictatorship is better than another? Glad to see those Reagan Conservative Values at work.

You know, guess since we are homies now, might be time to clue you in, man, to the fact that I know when to back away from the hardcore absurdly foolish... to just sit back and let it just simmer, stew in its own steamy fecalness.

Besides which, most...scratch that on second perusal, All of it being so damn silly, would be like a mosquito hovering over a rather rotund peoples nudist camp, staring down at so many targets of opportunity...just where the hell does one begin?
 
The two of you together can't come up with even one good argument... ha ha ha, too fun.

I don't even know what on earth we're arguing about. Somehow you managed to turn a thread about Jane ****ing Fonda into another "WHAAA OBAMA BLAMED BUSH." And then claimed you remembered one from May, or something. Then brought up the Saul Alinsky reference for good measure. It's like Side A of the Right Wing's Greatest Hits album.

Part of the thing that really doesn't bother me about people on the left blaming Bush is that a lot of that blame is richly deserved.
 
Bush has mostly kept quiet, but Asshole Cheney certainly hasn't.
I don't even know what on earth we're arguing about. Somehow you managed to turn a thread about Jane ****ing Fonda into another "WHAAA OBAMA BLAMED BUSH." And then claimed you remembered one from May, or something. Then brought up the Saul Alinsky reference for good measure. It's like Side A of the Right Wing's Greatest Hits album.

Part of the thing that really doesn't bother me about people on the left blaming Bush is that a lot of that blame is richly deserved.
I think you brought up Bush there first, yanno? And if one could give any credence to your opinions, I might listen to your complaints about Bush, I probably have a few of my own.

But I rather require some semblance of coherency first, that and a bit of consistency. Sorry.
 
I think if he had not shot his mouth off slighting other, on the other side, presidents...yeah, I used to think he was a nice guy, down deep too...

Then I saw his taking of big contributions to his library [ and really, who knows what else, if anything?] from somewhat radical Muslims and then, wonder of wonders, all of a sudden starts slamming the Israelies... the Israelis have their bad side, we all do, but Carter has only become rather meaner and more and more nasty from my distillation of the the guy.

Jimmy Carter was, and is, a fool but luckily, unlike in the case of Barrack Obama, the elctorate figured it out in time.

This is probably the most naive statement every made by an America President, excluding BHO.

“This action of the Soviets has made a more dramatic change in my own opinion of what the Soviets’ ultimate goals are than anything they’ve done in the previous time I’ve been in office.”

That was his their invasion of Afghanistan.
 
I hope "communism" and "socialist" aren't drinking game words either, or we'd all die of liver disease by the end of the day.

What do you expect when the thread concerns Hanoi Jane Fonda? Perhaps you should move to another thread if these words offend you.
 
You've got to wonder when the righties will get sick of flogging Saul Alinsky's 40-years-dead corpse, especially since they use the exact same "Alinsky tactics" that they constantly piss and moan about lefties allegedly doing. Quite a projection racket they've got going over there.

Although the right loves to hate Alinsky, I haven't actually found out specifically what it is about him that they hate so much. I don't know a lot about him, but all of it has been very positive. What was his crime? Helping the poor organize? The man who wrote "Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon" and threatened to protest with a fart-in at a symphony concert can't be all bad.
 
I think you brought up Bush there first, yanno? And if one could give any credence to your opinions, I might listen to your complaints about Bush, I probably have a few of my own.

But I rather require some semblance of coherency first, that and a bit of consistency. Sorry.

Um, no I didn't.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...high-praise-hanoi-jane-18.html#post1062523419

There was a time when EX presidents kept their mouth shut about the job the guy who took their job.............Have you ever heard GWB criticize Obama? Common courtesy.......Carter put that tradition aside big time and all Obama does is blame everything bad on Bush.
 
What do you expect when the thread concerns Hanoi Jane Fonda? Perhaps you should move to another thread if these words offend you.

For a lot of people on this forum a thread on pet grooming is appropriate for bringing up the horrors of socialism. So I won't move to another thread, but continue to ignore it or laugh at it as usual.
 
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