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LGBT Non-Discrimation Vote Passes Senate [W:215]

American said:
Tell that to Christians.
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uhm, i am one and millions of Christians (and many Catholics including the pope even though he isnt in this country) are fine with people having equal legal, human and civil rights.

Being Christians is meaningless to the debate and religion has no place what so ever in a LEGAL marriage debate.

Why would Christians be upset about people having their equal rights granted and protected?
 
Peter Grimm said:
Why? That's discrimination against anyone who doesn't "fit the mold."

I'm a nudist and I feel my rights are being trampled on. So some tranny is allowed to tuck his junk, shave his beard, put on red lipstick and put on a little black dress and go to work but I'm not allowed to express MYSELF?

Where's the equality??
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A transgender person does a lot more than that. A transgender person doesnt demand a new dress code just to match the dress code of the gender they need to live their lives as. We dont deny the establishments right to decide on the dress code.
 
Amandi said:
A transgender person does a lot more than that. A transgender person doesnt demand a new dress code just to match the dress code of the gender they need to live their lives as. We dont deny the establishments right to decide on the dress code.
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Whatever. I'm against the bill, and I doubt it passes the House, although I don't follow politics much these days so anything can happen.

I think the idea that people need the government to dictate their version of sensibility on us is offensive, arrogant, and wrong, but it's been happening for so long now there's no use in getting worked up about it.
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

TurtleDude said:
years ago, a young attorney at a top law firm here in town was fired. he claimed he was fired after he designated his boyfriend as his beneficiary on his firm's life insurance policy. The firm defended saying that this young gay attorney was spending too many hours on pro bono cases-often cases that were in contradiction to the interests of the firm's biggest clients.

well I knew this guy since he was active in the ACLU and in abortion rights (where my mother was a well known advocate)

the senior partner was an elderly gentleman who had been around for years. Very conservative. his locker at the club was near mine: he had represented my father's firm for decades

so I went up to him

Sir, is it true that Mr. G was fired for being gay?

Son, if that boy was as good an attorney as his ACLU and other leftwing friends said he is, he'd be welcome to have sex with a Giraffe in my private office anytime he liked

the firm won the lawsuit.
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Interesting story, but i don't think anyone denies that there are frivolous discrimination claims. That's what trials are meant to determine after all. At the same time, I'm sure the point of your story wasn't to claim that people are never fired due to their sexuality. To me the bigger issue is taking on a job where you just don't know what could happen and there's no possible protection.

I had an interview chance, well i still do technically, by a company in a detroit suburb. Well, i had to find out what is detroit's law...ok sexuality is covered, now what about this suburb...nope, now what about this company...i can't find anything in writing...should i flat out ask? I don't think it's worth the risk and especially not worth the stress, so probably not going to bother with them. But those are the kind of decisions that have to be made, and it's total bull**** that a big company that contracts with the federal government can get away with this.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Why? That's discrimination against anyone who doesn't "fit the mold."

I'm a nudist and I feel my rights are being trampled on. So some tranny is allowed to tuck his junk, shave his beard, put on red lipstick and put on a little black dress and go to work but I'm not allowed to express MYSELF?

Where's the equality??
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As an actual, practicing Nudist... I would never think of going to work nude. Time and a place for everything... (And yes,,,, I know you were speaking in jest. ;) )
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

poweRob said:
It won't happen with republicans in the South. And it won't happen with republicans in the Mormon west states. But it may fly with republicans in other western states and to a lesser extent some repubs in the midwest states.
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Nobody knows the future. Will the Republicans rebrand as a moderate party with some sound fiscal policy proposals and using example instead of law to moderate social customs? I suppose this sounds impossible when you think of recent tea party publicity. But there should be a reframing of what Republican means. You know, if Clinton were a Republican, he'd show them how to do it:)



(Obama has learned very little from Clinton)
 
AGENT J said:
uhm, i am one and millions of Christians (and many Catholics including the pope even though he isnt in this country) are fine with people having equal legal, human and civil rights.

Being Christians is meaningless to the debate and religion has no place what so ever in a LEGAL marriage debate.

Why would Christians be upset about people having their equal rights granted and protected?
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I see how it is dealing with you now, you purposely twist a person's words.
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

chromium said:
Interesting story, but i don't think anyone denies that there are frivolous discrimination claims. That's what trials are meant to determine after all. At the same time, I'm sure the point of your story wasn't to claim that people are never fired due to their sexuality. To me the bigger issue is taking on a job where you just don't know what could happen and there's no possible protection.

I had an interview chance, well i still do technically, by a company in a detroit suburb. Well, i had to find out what is detroit's law...ok sexuality is covered, now what about this suburb...nope, now what about this company...i can't find anything in writing...should i flat out ask? I don't think it's worth the risk and especially not worth the stress, so probably not going to bother with them. But those are the kind of decisions that have to be made, and it's total bull**** that a big company that contracts with the federal government can get away with this.
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Just my $0.02, but if you have already written them off, might as well float the question to HR. If sexuality isn't covered, you lost nothing. If it is, maybe there is an opportunity. Either way, good luck with job upgrade/search.
 
American said:
I see how it is dealing with you now, you purposely twist a person's words.
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translation: no words were twisted and you are dodging the question. Got it!
 
AGENT J said:
translation: no words were twisted and you are dodging the question. Got it!
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I never said they had a problem with rights, my point is that Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs everyday. So why don't you join the club?
 
American said:
1.)I never said they had a problem with rights
2.) my point is that Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs everyday.
3.) So why don't you join the club?
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1.) so then why would i tell them them the bigots and discriminaters are losing on THIS issues? ooooooh i see you are claiming you were talking about an entirely different issue not related to anything in this thread . . .got it, nice back pedal

2.) in this country its pretty rare that we (christians) are "persecuted" simply for beliefs, it does happen though and guess what? there are already laws against it to protect me(us), so of course as a christian and as american i want my fellow Americans to have the same rights as i already do.

3.) the reality is im already in the club of fighting for equal, human and civil rights and defeating discrimination . . . . im also in the club as a christian of having my rights protected . . .

what additional club would you like me to join?
and remind me what you want me to tell my fellow Christians again?
 
AGENT J said:
1.) so then why would i tell them them the bigots and discriminaters are losing on THIS issues? ooooooh i see you are claiming you were talking about an entirely different issue not related to anything in this thread . . .got it, nice back pedal

2.) in this country its pretty rare that we (christians) are "persecuted" simply for beliefs, it does happen though and guess what? there are already laws against it to protect me(us), so of course as a christian and as american i want my fellow Americans to have the same rights as i already do.

3.) the reality is im already in the club of fighting for equal, human and civil rights and defeating discrimination . . . . im also in the club as a christian of having my rights protected . . .

what additional club would you like me to join?
and remind me what you want me to tell my fellow Christians again?
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There are plenty that would have any vestige of someone's religion hidden from all public sight, but you support unconditonally open right for gays, right? That's my point. You made this statement, and that's what I was responding to.


3.) yes like i said ill stay here since equality is winning and bigotry and discimination is losing
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Religious people are getting discriminated against in public places, just as gays. But you say equality is winning.......yes maybe from your perspective.
 
American said:
1.)There are plenty that would have any vestige of someone's religion hidden from all public sight
2.) but you support unconditonally open right for gays, right?
3.) That's my point.
4.) You made this statement, and that's what I was responding to.




Religious people are getting discriminated against in public places, just as gays. But you say equality is winning.......yes maybe from your perspective.
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1.) goodie gum drops for those nuts that want to violate peoples rights whats that have to do with my post? thats right nothing
and luckily theres already laws to stop them and i support those laws

2.) wow, i like when you are so lost in a topic you just start posting lies why do you lie, is it simply because you have no intelligent and logic path to take to support your failed post?

show me any post of mine where i want gays to have special rights or unconditional ones that rank over others LMAO . . heck show me ONE

3.) your point failed and its a lie, try to stay on topic and be honest and you wont have this issue

4.) yes i made a statement that equal rights for gays is winning and discrimination and bigotry is losing base on this topic and thats true, and has nothgin to do with the stuff you made up that got destroyed.

is there anything factual or on topic or even support by logic you have to say on this topic? Id love to hear it

also dont forget my questions
what additional club would you like me to join?
and remind me what you want me to tell my fellow Christians again?
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

Blue_State said:
Just my $0.02, but if you have already written them off, might as well float the question to HR. If sexuality isn't covered, you lost nothing. If it is, maybe there is an opportunity. Either way, good luck with job upgrade/search.
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Thanks but with nothing in writing, the last thing i need is to start working and get fired and have nothing to do all summer or worry about it. Even worse, i can't figure out if the city law applies to this suburb or not. Well, i can afford to turn down even potentially bigoted employers/cities/states and it's liberating to do so.

But i think it's a great example of how the argument that only "private" companies can discriminate fails. If they get subsidies/tax breaks/bailouts or contract with the fed, they aren't really private. The government is condoning and enabling it at that point.
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

chromium said:
I had an interview chance, well i still do technically, by a company in a detroit suburb. Well, i had to find out what is detroit's law...ok sexuality is covered, now what about this suburb...nope, now what about this company...i can't find anything in writing...should i flat out ask? I don't think it's worth the risk and especially not worth the stress, so probably not going to bother with them. But those are the kind of decisions that have to be made, and it's total bull**** that a big company that contracts with the federal government can get away with this.
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I really don't understand this. Why would you have to "find out"? Why even ask? Has it been that big of a problem in the past? You are stressing yourself out over something that is all in your head from what I can see. Are you so flamboyant with your sexuality that it would be an issue? If so, then maybe you would be fired on the ground of sexual harrassment in the same way that a woman is fired for dressing like a tramp and trying to bed every guy at the office. Or the guy that creeps out all the ladies because he is constantly hitting on them or making inappropriate comments...
That has been done. As well as it should be. Any person that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment is subject to dismissal, in my experience. Just being gay is not enough to make that environment.

And I argee 100% that it is BullS... If you get the job and are fired because of your sexuality, I would sue the pants off of them. IF you can prove it...... Of course that would be the hard part.

This statement will probably tick you off.... but I think that it sounds like you have already adopted the "victim mentality".
 
Amandi said:
Well since Batman is fictional, some may believe you are fictional. However, if claiming you are Batman is the only way you can be a happy and productive member of society, then most wouldnt stop you. If you legally changed your name to Batman, most would call you that.
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What if offending the **** out of people made me happy - would you support me then? because men who think they're woman and woman who think they're men offend me....

The mere notion that you believe it's socially acceptable to be Batman everyday show's me you're some sort of social anarchist..
 
Mr.Nick said:
What if offending the **** out of people made me happy - would you support me then? because men who think they're woman and woman who think they're men offend me....

The mere notion that you believe it's socially acceptable to be Batman everyday show's me you're some sort of social anarchist..
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It depends on what you are doing to annoy people. You have the freedom of speach so can talk all you want but you cant touch or interfere with people. If your mere presence annoys people that is there problem.

Nope, far from anarchist. I dont understand how letting a person believe they are Batman produces anarchy.
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

Chiefgator said:
I really don't understand this. Why would you have to "find out"? Why even ask? Has it been that big of a problem in the past? You are stressing yourself out over something that is all in your head from what I can see. Are you so flamboyant with your sexuality that it would be an issue? If so, then maybe you would be fired on the ground of sexual harrassment in the same way that a woman is fired for dressing like a tramp and trying to bed every guy at the office. Or the guy that creeps out all the ladies because he is constantly hitting on them or making inappropriate comments...
That has been done. As well as it should be. Any person that creates a hostile/uncomfortable work environment is subject to dismissal, in my experience. Just being gay is not enough to make that environment.

And I argee 100% that it is BullS... If you get the job and are fired because of your sexuality, I would sue the pants off of them. IF you can prove it...... Of course that would be the hard part.

This statement will probably tick you off.... but I think that it sounds like you have already adopted the "victim mentality".
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I hardly need to justify my decision to you or anyone who doesn't face such dilemmas, but perhaps you can be made to understand. Yes, i've had jobs where the other workers ask about your personal life. "Do you have a girlfriend? Why do girls talk about boring crap like the weather during sex?" etc. Guess i should keep lying or tell them off? Yes, that's a great way to make friends or network and not at all stressful. Maybe tell the truth? Ok, then i could be fired.

I'm not saying it would happen or even likely, but it'd be damn foolish to turn down jobs that do have those policies/laws in favor of one that doesn't. With 97% of fortune 500 companies having such a policy, makes me wonder about the other 3%. It's just too risky. It's funny because if i took this job others on here would say (as they have) that I'd "deserve" it if i did get fired, cause i should've known better than to apply. So whatever am i to do to please everyone? How about whatever the hell i'm comfortable with, and screw anyone who has a problem with that?

Simply being gay IS enough to fire someone without ENDA in most places. They will say it creates a hostile work environment. You're saying sue them...that's exactly the point! I could *not* do so at this place. There's no legal protection. Try to keep up.
 
Amandi said:
It depends on what you are doing to annoy people. You have the freedom of speach so can talk all you want but you cant touch or interfere with people. If your mere presence annoys people that is there problem.

Nope, far from anarchist. I dont understand how letting a person believe they are Batman produces anarchy.
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Do you not see the problem within the bolded logic?

Your precious opinion doesn't matter - better yet - it's not up to our government to enforce your opinion....

I could (and will) care less about your "opinion" but when you expect the government to enforce YOUR opinion on me - that is where I draw a line (and I'm not like Obama) I mean it....

The Bill of Rights means it too as a document...

So sad I have to point this out....
 
To Amandi:

We have A Bill of Rights for a reason.
 
Re: Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill

chromium said:
I hardly need to justify my decision to you or anyone who doesn't face such dilemmas, but perhaps you can be made to understand. Yes, i've had jobs where the other workers ask about your personal life. "Do you have a girlfriend? Why do girls talk about boring crap like the weather during sex?" etc. Guess i should keep lying or tell them off? Yes, that's a great way to make friends or network and not at all stressful. Maybe tell the truth? Ok, then i could be fired.

I'm not saying it would happen or even likely, but it'd be damn foolish to turn down jobs that do have those policies/laws in favor of one that doesn't. With 97% of fortune 500 companies having such a policy, makes me wonder about the other 3%. It's just too risky. It's funny because if i took this job others on here would say (as they have) that I'd "deserve" it if i did get fired, cause i should've known better than to apply. So whatever am i to do to please everyone? How about whatever the hell i'm comfortable with, and screw anyone who has a problem with that?

Simply being gay IS enough to fire someone without ENDA in most places. They will say it creates a hostile work environment. You're saying sue them...that's exactly the point! I could *not* do so at this place. There's no legal protection. Try to keep up.
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I am keeping up. I am just trying to understand. I am also on record for ENDA being passed.

None of my gay friends have any of the issues of which you speak. A few are with very successful in high profile companies and most are quite open. Not one has ever told me that they are afraid for their job. Most were afraid to come out, not fearing the reactin at work, but for the reaction of their families. I know when my brother came out, my Mother freaked out... but she got over it.



I do have to ask you to explain the 97% number... 97% have waht sort of policy? To fire or equality? If it is to Fire.... yeah, I would be afraid to ask, but 3%... chances are so good in your favor that it should not matter... 3% is a great risk... 15 of 500...I will take those odds in a heartbeat.

To the guys that say "you deserve it", well they are just wrong.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Do you not see the problem within the bolded logic?

Your precious opinion doesn't matter - better yet - it's not up to our government to enforce your opinion....

I could (and will) care less about your "opinion" but when you expect the government to enforce YOUR opinion on me - that is where I draw a line (and I'm not like Obama) I mean it....

The Bill of Rights means it too as a document...

So sad I have to point this out....
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Mr.Nick said:
To Amandi:

We have A Bill of Rights for a reason.
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It's like we arent even participating in the same conversation. Nothing I have said violates the Bill of Rights. You have the Freedom of Speech to say what you want and to protest. What exactly did I say that violates the Bill of Rights.
 
Amandi said:
It's like we arent even participating in the same conversation. Nothing I have said violates the Bill of Rights. You have the Freedom of Speech to say what you want and to protest. What exactly did I say that violates the Bill of Rights.
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I'm pretty sure you have implied that people have the obligation and should be FORCED to serve and accept transexuals when people have the same right to refuse....

Yeah I know your next argument will be "Jim Crow."
 
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