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Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

In the world the correct answer is valued. :)

This isnt some mystical concept, its an objective science.

In the real world, math is about more than that

Like I said, there seems to be a lot about math that you don't understand.

For example, what is the answer to this equation:

x = y[sup]2[/sup] + 3z + 4
 
In the real world, math is about more than that

Like I said, there seems to be a lot about math that you don't understand.

For example, what is the answer to this equation:

x = y[sup]2[/sup] + 3z + 4

Math is about more than that because it objectively represents abstraction.

You arent doing anyone a favor by giving some credit for an incorrect answer unless you feel the test is for you and not the student.
 
Math is about more than that because it objectively represents abstraction.

Well, now you're contradicting your assertion that math is all about getting the correct answer.

You arent doing anyone a favor by giving some credit for an incorrect answer unless you feel the test is for you and not the student.

I don't know where you got that. It looks like you're getting desperate enough to pull things out of your ass.

Where did I say anything about any test being for me? At my age, the only test I worry about is the prostate exam.
 
Well, now you're contradicting your assertion that math is all about getting the correct answer.

I said objectively. :)

I don't know where you got that. It looks like you're getting desperate enough to pull things out of your ass.

Where did I say anything about any test being for me? At my age, the only test I worry about is the prostate exam.

The only thing pulled out of anyones backside is the attempted justification of subjective grading of objective studies. Its not a path to competence, let alone success. Stop making excuses, our kids can rise to the occasion.
 
The only thing pulled out of anyones backside is the attempted justification of subjective grading of objective studies. Its not a path to competence, let alone success. Stop making excuses, our kids can rise to the occasion.

You seem to think that adding the word "objective" somehow changes what you said. Here is what you said:

The technique is a means to an end. That end would be the correct answer.

As I've shown, the "end" is not a "correct answer" but understanding.

Calling math an "objective study" is nonsense. Making up terms like "objective study" doesn't make your argument make sense
 
This has always been a problem, but what you are saying is the union is there for you, not the student. Im fine with that, I just hear many special interest groups say they are benevolent caretakers of the people when really its about them.

Of course the union is there for the teacher. The teachers pay them and expect them to be there for them. It's like hiring a lawyer. Do you expect that lawyer to be on your side, or simply just do what is right for the good of all?

ONE reason students are assessed is to guide instruction-its also evaluation teacher competency and of the school meeting its obligations.

Correct, the the CC test is used for the latter purpose. Diagnostic and teacher made tests, writing and math samples, and reading inventories do a much better job of assessing students to guide instruction

Id love to see some citations of that, please--its the first Ive heard of that-and if its true I want to know about it.

Check out Snopes. It has a pretty good explanation. It would't let me copy and paste pertinent parts, so you'll have to click the link.






Dont make a mistake-im no fan of common core. I wasn't thrilled about no child left behind until I found that it raised scores. But since it did-it should be defended.

It only raised test scores because it mandated teaching to the test. Don't be fooled by common core or state standard test scores. They are a poor measure of student achievement. NCLB, "race to the top", and the Department of Education need to all be discontinued.


Here in california the teachers unions are actively against home schooling, despite higher scores by 30% or so.

Unions are going to be against anything that decreases the number of teaching jobs. Like I said, home schooling is a mixed bag. If you were to examine the achievement levels of students who have parents who are involved enough gto actually carry on a home schooling program, you'd find those levels to be considerably higher also.

I personally support the idea, but then, I don't think compulsory education is such a good idea either. My libertarian lean sometimes conflicts with the teacher's union position.


You dont think the parents of troubled kids wouldnt support a private school if it raised scores? Are you for vouchers?

If vouchers actually paid the cost of any school, public or private, (which the only plan proposed in Cali did not do), if it exempted religious instruction, if public as well as private schools could set standards and then refuse to accept a student who did not qualify, then I'd be for vouchers. So far, I've never seen any such plan proposed, have you?

Not surprised to hear that. Its a good thing objective standards exist for this reason amongst others.

and it would be a lot better if those objective standards were accurate, valid, and reliable. The common Core test is not.


can be fired, how does 3 years of competency mean someone should be hard to fire?

It proves that they are competent.

If every teacher who ever got crosswise with the administration or with a parent were fired, there would be no one left.
 
Math is about more than that because it objectively represents abstraction.

You arent doing anyone a favor by giving some credit for an incorrect answer unless you feel the test is for you and not the student.

I'm calling this a Red herring. Who said that the CC or the PARCC allows wrong answers? Everything I've read shows the opposite. They must fluently multiply and divide within 100, using strategies such as the relationship between multiplication and division. -CC standard

First, any answer they give must demostrate fluency. Type II tasks call for written arguments/justifications, critique of reasoning, or precision in mathematical statements (MP. 3, 6). These tasks can also involve other mathematical practice standards. Type III tasks call for modeling/application in a real-world context or scenario (MP.4) and can also involve other mathematical practice standards. Grade 3 - Mathematics | PARCC


A construct problem makes a student demonstrate all three tasks. Task I and III seem rational while Task II doesn't seem appropriate for most 3rd graders. It will lend a correct answer to loose points not gain them even if they knew the correct answer with fluency and could demonstrate the model in part III. Construct problems will weigh heavily on the final grade. I'm just unsure how many the test will include. Verbal arguments are not developmentally appropriate for 9 year olds IMHO. That should be reserved for older grades.
 
I'm calling this a Red herring. Who said that the CC or the PARCC allows wrong answers? Everything I've read shows the opposite. They must fluently multiply and divide within 100, using strategies such as the relationship between multiplication and division. -CC standard

First, any answer they give must demostrate fluency. Type II tasks call for written arguments/justifications, critique of reasoning, or precision in mathematical statements (MP. 3, 6). These tasks can also involve other mathematical practice standards. Type III tasks call for modeling/application in a real-world context or scenario (MP.4) and can also involve other mathematical practice standards. Grade 3 - Mathematics | PARCC


A construct problem makes a student demonstrate all three tasks. Task I and III seem rational while Task II doesn't seem appropriate for most 3rd graders. It will lend a correct answer to loose points not gain them even if they knew the correct answer with fluency and could demonstrate the model in part III. Construct problems will weigh heavily on the final grade. I'm just unsure how many the test will include. Verbal arguments are not developmentally appropriate for 9 year olds IMHO. That should be reserved for older grades.

Read through the thread, it appears you are missing context.
 
I've read the thread and complaining about either CC or PARCC giving credit to wrong answers IS A RED HERRING. It does not.

If you have read through this you know I wasn't referring to the tests you mention. Rather I was referring to the testing of math in general.
 
If you have read through this you know I wasn't referring to the tests you mention. Rather I was referring to the testing of math in general.

Well on high stake testing it does matter because students, teachers and schools will be graded and punished or rewarded on the results.

Edit to add: Students must now be graded using CC standards so if fluency isn't there they will get a 1. Again, what happened in the past has nothing to do with CC or PARCC.
 
Well on high stake testing it does matter because students, teachers and schools will be graded and punished or rewarded on the results.

Edit to add: Students must now be graded using CC standards so if fluency isn't there they will get a 1. Again, what happened in the past has nothing to do with CC or PARCC.

Im no fan of govt interference, or top down control-but the achievements of public schools are horrible and unions look after themselves. At least NCLB raised scores.

Im hearing many teachers justifying mediocrity. I think we can do better.
 
Many others will be referred to Team and tested for learning disabilities. We already have teachers bringing in referrals because student cannot master a standard. Our administrator commented that we can now see how many students suffer from learning problems which I found fascinating. She didn't even consider the standards may not be appropriate for all children. Her assumption is they must be disabled.
 
Im no fan of govt interference, or top down control-but the achievements of public schools are horrible and unions look after themselves. At least NCLB raised scores.

Im hearing many teachers justifying mediocrity. I think we can do better.

How does a test that is developmentally inappropriate justifying mediocrity? I'll love to hear this answer.
 
From : What I Told Educators on Long Island About Common Core | Diane Ravitch's blog

I explained why I was uneasy about the hasty implementation of the Common Core in New York, especially the inappropriate rush to test the Common Core standards before teachers had a chance to learn about them, before resources were available to teach them, and before students had had a chance to learn them.

I warned that the Common Core testing was designed to fail 70% of the students. New York Commissioner of Education John King predicted with uncanny accuracy before the tests were given that only 30% or so would pass. He knew this because he wrongly chose the NAEP “proficient” level as a pass-fail mark. On NAEP, 30% of New York students are at the “proficient” level, he figured, so that is what the state tests should show. But NAEP proficient was not designed to be a pass-fail mark; it represents “solid academic performance.” I was a board member of the National Assessment Governing Board for seven years. I know the achievement levels and the kind of student work they represent. On NAEP, “advanced” is extraordinary achievement (sort of like an A+). The next level, NAEP “proficient” is equivalent to an A or at least a strong B+ (the NAEP guidelines don’t say so), but it is certainly an indication of high academic achievement, not a pass-fail mark. There is only one state in the nation–Massachusetts–where 50% of the students have reached proficient.

The “cut score” (or passing mark) was set so high that only 31% of New York students passed (including only 3% of English learners, only 5% of students with disabilities, only 15-18% of black and Hispanic students). Consequently, the New York State Education Department ignited a firestorm of outrage from parents. Arne Duncan said this indicated the disappointment of “white suburban moms,” but the New York Regents have yet to hold a hearing in New York City or any other urban district. I expect the Regents will get an earful from moms and dads of all races, not because they consider their child to be “brilliant,” but because they don’t consider them to be failures.

I asked the leaders on Long Island: What will happen if 50-60-or 70% of students can’t pass the Common Core tests and can’t get a diploma? Has anyone thought about them? Will they be able to get any kind of job without a high school diploma? What exactly is the point of making the tests so hard that 70% will fail?
 
Many others will be referred to Team and tested for learning disabilities. We already have teachers bringing in referrals because student cannot master a standard. Our administrator commented that we can now see how many students suffer from learning problems which I found fascinating. She didn't even consider the standards may not be appropriate for all children. Her assumption is they must be disabled.

I hear you, but the fact remains-the performance in public schools is piss poor. If teachers were raising scores I wouldnt have as much of a problem, but as it is, teachers claim the problems are because of issues at home (meaning its not a school issue that can be corrected), or because of the test-again without a suitable alternative.

In the mean time, students in private schools (the same ones more public school teachers send their kids to) and home schooling continues to outperform public schools.
 
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