• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

Josie said:
First of all, we need to remember that Common Core is a list of standards by which companies are creating curriculum. What your child will be doing in school is dependent on which reading/science/history program your district purchases. Just because the vast majority of states have adopted CCSS, it doesn't mean every child in those states is doing the same assignments, have the same textbooks, etc.

I have many things to say about Common Core..........and not much of it is good.
Click to expand...

So you are saying the core of common core isn't common? :)
 
Fiddytree said:
Josie, do you remember the beginnings of the accountability movement? It had an especially conservative angle, but it did become rather bi-partisan, eventually. There were antecedents during the 1950s and 1960s as a result of the Cold War, but the strength didn't really kick in until the 1980s. That was also due to domestic concerns rather than foreign policy concerns. Then you had Goals 2000 and a number of attempts to reform curriculum.

What I noticed was that at times conservatives liked standards and accountability measures, whereas at other points they do not. When I saw this I immediately thought of 1994.
Click to expand...

And just to be clear, I'm not saying that this movement hasn't had, or doesn't have, support from dems or even people to the left of the dems. However, the source is clearly from the right

And the right objects when efforts are made to implement once they realize that national standards require some level of federal input. Once they hear that, they start screaming "Federal Takeover!!"
 
Hatuey said:
What isn't there to like about it?
Click to expand...

1. Dumbed down standards so that it will appear as though we're progressing as a country.

2. Instead of kids coloring cute owls with owl stories for a fall bulletin board, they're coloring bar graphs showing their progress on academic tests. Instead of engaging, encouraging, happy bulletin boards -- we have to list objectives and Common Core standards in our rooms. Why? Not because it helps the kids - because some bureaucrat who has never taught before thinks it's a good idea.

3. Zero creative writing - ZERO.

4. A massive reduction in fiction --- fantasy, mystery, fairy tales, ---- the kinds of books that reel in 80% (my estimate) of kids to becoming lifelong lovers of reading.

5. Huge data collections on every student.

6. Much less time to teach and much more time documenting, assessing, evaluating and filling out paperwork.

I could go on, but I'm trying to eat lunch.
 
Last edited:
trfjr said:
Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms | Fox News

And this is how liberalism gained a foot hold in todays politics. with them propagandizing our children over the generations. why do you think most teachers and college professor lean to the left

"Whoever controls youth, controls the future" was the slogan, given the German National club to the Communist thieves' den.
Click to expand...

I really don't see how any of what's on the sheet is "Liberalism." Unless you think a grasp of grammar and history are "liberal."

Seems that reading comprehension really isn't a strong suit of the right, since they're now fighting hard against it. :lamo
 
Deuce said:
This worksheet is in no way related to Common Core.
Click to expand...

Josie said:
1. Dumbed down standards.
Click to expand...
so 'dumbed down' the board of education is warning the public to expect lower scores on last year's standardized tests, because of the introduction of the more strident standards
if they were easier, 'dumbed down' standards, i believe the scores would instead have elevated

2. Instead of kids coloring cute owls with owl stories for a fall bulletin board, they're coloring bar graphs showing their progress on academic tests.
Click to expand...
yes, coloring an owl instead of a graph is going to so 'dumb down' our kids [/sarcasm]

3. Zero creative writing - ZERO.
Click to expand...
let's first teach them to read and write. once they can do that, let's go onto something creative

4. A massive reduction in fiction --- the kind of books 80% of kids learn to love reading with.
Click to expand...
let's instead expose them to MORE non-fiction - you know, factual information. the stuff which makes possible STEM careers and will assist them into adulthood

5. Huge data collections on every student.
Click to expand...
i agree with this. if we have no idea how johnny is performing then we will continue to socially graduate kids who cannot read, write, or perform basic math
the problem i have with this data is that we will not be using it to ability group the teaching of our kids. we hold down the smart ones in the hope that their presence in the class room will enhance the knowledge of the dumb ones. it doesn't work that way. now that we can distinguish the fast learners from the slow learners, let's put them in ability grouped classes

6. Much less time to teach and much more time documenting, assessing, evaluating and filling out paperwork.
Click to expand...
the technology is there. seven years ago my son developed software which would allow a teacher to use her smart phone (then there was no iphone, it was itouch) to grade papers. to place that data in each student's efolder, and to identify which questions were missed by the student so the teacher could provide individual help to each student on the material they had not mastered. it would also graph which questions were most missed by the class to allow the teacher to see if the material needed to be presented before the class in a different manner. while he could not get the school system to return a phone call, regarding his desire to give them the software he developed, the teach for America teachers who participated in the evaluations refused to give their devices back. they had become that used to the benefits of the system he had developed. the point is, there IS technology out there to substantially eliminate these time consuming tasks from the teacher's day. there just needs to be a will to identify and apply the available technologies

I could go on, but I'm trying to eat lunch.
Click to expand...
look forward to responding to any additional points
 
rocket88 said:
I really don't see how any of what's on the sheet is "Liberalism." Unless you think a grasp of grammar and history are "liberal."

Seems that reading comprehension really isn't a strong suit of the right, since they're now fighting hard against it. :lamo
Click to expand...

“The wants of an individual are less important than the well-being of the nation” << that's a political, philosophical opinion, not a fact.
 
Josie said:
3. Zero creative writing - ZERO.
Click to expand...

Untrue. From the CC standards for Grades 6-12

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Writing | Grade 6

CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3 Write narratives to develop real or imagined experiences or events using effective technique, relevant descriptive details, and well-structured event sequences.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3a Engage and orient the reader by establishing a context and introducing a narrator and/or characters; organize an event sequence that unfolds naturally and logically.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3b Use narrative techniques, such as dialogue, pacing, and description, to develop experiences, events, and/or characters.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3c Use a variety of transition words, phrases, and clauses to convey sequence and signal shifts from one time frame or setting to another.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3d Use precise words and phrases, relevant descriptive details, and sensory language to convey experiences and events.
CCSS.ELA-Literacy.W.6.3e Provide a conclusion that follows from the narrated experiences or events.
Click to expand...

4. A massive reduction in fiction --- fantasy, mystery, fairy tales, ---- the kinds of books that reel in 80% (my estimate) of kids to becoming lifelong lovers of reading.
Click to expand...

Untrue

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Anchor Standards | College and Career Readiness Anchor Standards for Reading
To build a foundation for college and career readiness, students must read widely and deeply from among a broad range of high-quality, increasingly challenging literary and informational texts. Through extensive reading of stories, dramas, poems, and myths from diverse cultures and different time periods, students gain literary and cultural knowledge as well as familiarity with various text structures and elements. By reading texts in history/social studies, science, and other disciplines, students build a foundation of knowledge in these fields that will also give them the background to be better readers in all content areas. Students can only gain this foundation when the curriculum is intentionally and coherently structured to develop rich content knowledge within and across grades. Students also acquire the habits of reading independently and closely, which are essential to their future success.
Click to expand...

If you're going to insist you're some kind of expert on CC standards and educational policies simply because you're a teacher then it would probably be better if you didn't consistently misrepresent the standards or the facts
 
Josie said:
“The wants of an individual are less important than the well-being of the nation” << that's a political, philosophical opinion, not a fact.
Click to expand...

It was in a grammar lesson about pluralizing it. I can see what you're saying with that, but I can just imagine what would be said if the sentence was "The gun rights of the individual are God-given." I don't think Fox would mind that!
 
Josie said:
1. Dumbed down standards so that it will appear as though we're progressing as a country.
Click to expand...

False - as per Republicans:

A rural Georgia GOP leader on Common Core: Republicans should... | Get Schooled | www.ajc.com

On the face of it, Republicans should love the Common Core State Standards. Eisenhower called for higher education standards in response to Sputnik. Reagan decried that U.S. standards were too low. Conservatives have railed against lax standards, zero accountability and bloated education budgets for decades. We want measurable results, bottom-line solutions, and we don’t want them come from Washington.
Click to expand...

The goal? To create graduates with the necessary skills to be employable by businesses or go to college. Funded by big business, with 10,000 different inputs by ordinary parents and teachers, developed by teachers, benchmarked against competitive foreign countries, the group created a yardstick that could measure every student across the nation.
Click to expand...

2. Instead of kids coloring cute owls with owl stories for a fall bulletin board, they're coloring bar graphs showing their progress on academic tests. Instead of engaging, encouraging, happy bulletin boards -- we have to list objectives and Common Core standards in our rooms. Why? Not because it helps the kids - because some bureaucrat who has never taught before thinks it's a good idea.
Click to expand...

Common Core does that. Developed by teachers, created by the states, it provides the kind of education that big business and colleges are demanding.
Click to expand...

This was developed by teachers and their state. No federal input.

3. Zero creative writing - ZERO.
Click to expand...

4. A massive reduction in fiction --- fantasy, mystery, fairy tales, ---- the kinds of books that reel in 80% (my estimate) of kids to becoming lifelong lovers of reading.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's not even remotely true - again as per a Republican:

A rural Georgia GOP leader on Common Core: Republicans should... | Get Schooled | www.ajc.com

“But the curriculum tells teacher what to teach!” Actually, Common Core isn’t even a curriculum. It is a set of standards that each child needs to know. One teacher put it this way, "It's not about how to teach; it's about where students need to be by the time that teaching is done."
Click to expand...

5. Huge data collections on every student.

6. Much less time to teach and much more time documenting, assessing, evaluating and filling out paperwork.
Click to expand...

Good. Kids should be heavily documented in order to give them better options once they reach higher learning. Also, so teachers are supported by evidence when they fail kids because of the work they do/don't do. There are far too many cases of personal bias being used by teachers these days. Don't like kid X? ****ty grade. I'm all in favor of teachers having to support their qualifications with evidence. Why aren't you?

I could go on, but I'm trying to eat lunch.
Click to expand...

Enjoy.
 
Last edited:
Hatuey said:
False - as per Republicans:

A rural Georgia GOP leader on Common Core: Republicans should... | Get Schooled | www.ajc.com









This was developed by teachers and their state. No federal input.





Actually, that's not even remotely true - again as per a Republican:

A rural Georgia GOP leader on Common Core: Republicans should... | Get Schooled | www.ajc.com





Good. Kids should be heavily documented in order to give them better options once they reach higher learning. Also, so teachers are supported by evidence when they fail kids because of the work they do/don't do. There are far too many cases of personal bias being used by teachers these days. Don't like kid X? ****ty grade. I'm all in favor of teachers having to support their qualifications with evidence. Why aren't you?



Enjoy.
Click to expand...

I will help Josie out by giving you her answer to you: you are wrong! Glenn says it is a communist takeover! The whole story on Common Core – Glenn Beck

And now we know why she is spreading so much inaccurate information about Common Core.
 
Look at all of you liberals and progressives vehemently defending this "conservative" idea. :lamo
 
Josie said:
Look at all of you liberals and progressives vehemently defending this "conservative" idea. :lamo
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not claiming it's a conservative idea. I'm claiming it's a bipartisan program where everyone gets what they want:

Liberals - Required learning.
Conservatives - Higher standards.
Libertarians - State controlled, teacher created.

If your best reply to that is "nee-naa-nee-naa stupid liberals!" I can see why you don't like it. ALL your points about why the program is bad are either misinformed or completely false. What exactly is it you teach? You don't seem to be too up and up on what Common Core is even though you're a teacher.
 
Redress said:
I will help Josie out by giving you her answer to you: you are wrong! Glenn says it is a communist takeover! The whole story on Common Core – Glenn Beck

And now we know why she is spreading so much inaccurate information about Common Core.
Click to expand...

It's like she basically copy pasted all his talking points:

No fiction reading/cute owls

GLENN: Common Core also shifts away from classic literature and allows for the reading of informational texts. Now, what is informational texts? And by the way, it shifts as the years progress. When you’re in ‑‑ when you’re in first grade, you read fewer and fewer informational texts and you read more of the classic literature that is approved.
Click to expand...

Data gathering and paperwork:

The defense of Common Core doesn’t even mention all of the data mining that will take place from Microsoft, the biowristbands they want to use on our kids, the FCAT scans that are in the Department of Education’s own paperwork.
Click to expand...

Told to by bureaucrats:

GLENN: Seeing and hearing this kind of ridiculous nonsense, I can’t help but wonder if this was written by maybe a fifth grader that, you know, will be tested soon. The fact that 90% of the states took the money and the program, that’s your clearest evidence that states can still set their own standards?
Click to expand...

... I swear... You'd think with all the parroting some people do of Glenn Beck's show, they'd at least be smart enough to not plagiarize the living **** out of his shows. This is why we need better teachers.
 
Josie said:
Look at all of you liberals and progressives vehemently defending this "conservative" idea. :lamo
Click to expand...

I dunno about you, but I consider ideas based on their merits, not on who proposes them...or what Glenn Beck tells me to think about them...
 
justabubba said:
so 'dumbed down' the board of education is warning the public to expect lower scores on last year's standardized tests, because of the introduction of the more strident standards
if they were easier, 'dumbed down' standards, i believe the scores would instead have elevated
Click to expand...

The tests will also be computer-based which is new for almost all (if not all) of the states which is another factor in why scores will be lower. Every single student has to have access to a computer in order to take this test. That's impossible for low-income districts who barely have one computer per classroom.


justabubba said:
yes, coloring an owl instead of a graph is going to so 'dumb down' our kids [/sarcasm]
Click to expand...

It's unsurprising that you missed the point. Everything is data, data, data, data, numbers, numbers, numbers, scores, scores, scores, graphs, graphs, graphs. Who cares about imagination, creativity and just letting 6 year olds be KIDS, for God's sake. Kids should be making Pilgrim hats and writing a story about the Mayflower, not worrying about how many data points their reading fluency scores moved in the past week.

justabubba said:
let's first teach them to read and write. once they can do that, let's go onto something creative
Click to expand...

You say that as if those things are mutually exclusive....

justabubba said:
let's instead expose them to MORE non-fiction - you know, factual information. the stuff which makes possible STEM careers and will assist them into adulthood
Click to expand...

I'm all about non-fiction. For some kids, that's what they want to read. That's what makes them excited. That's what will keep a book in their hands. But for most kids, the love, the excitement, the joy of reading is found in magical lands through wardrobes. To de-emphasize the importance of reading fiction is a detriment to our students.


justabubba said:
i agree with this. if we have no idea how johnny is performing then we will continue to socially graduate kids who cannot read, write, or perform basic math
the problem i have with this data is that we will not be using it to ability group the teaching of our kids. we hold down the smart ones in the hope that their presence in the class room will enhance the knowledge of the dumb ones. it doesn't work that way. now that we can distinguish the fast learners from the slow learners, let's put them in ability grouped classes
Click to expand...

I whole-heartedly agree that kids need to be grouped by ability. I also agree that SOME kids needs to be looked at closely, tracking their progress, collecting information in order to help them. I do NOT agree that we need to do that for ALL kids. Nor do I agree that we need to track social relationship data or emotional data on all children.


justabubba said:
the technology is there. seven years ago my son developed software which would allow a teacher to use her smart phone (then there was no iphone, it was itouch) to grade papers. to place that data in each student's efolder, and to identify which questions were missed by the student so the teacher could provide individual help to each student on the material they had not mastered. it would also graph which questions were most missed by the class to allow the teacher to see if the material needed to be presented before the class in a different manner. while he could not get the school system to return a phone call, regarding his desire to give them the software he developed, the teach for America teachers who participated in the evaluations refused to give their devices back. they had become that used to the benefits of the system he had developed. the point is, there IS technology out there to substantially eliminate these time consuming tasks from the teacher's day. there just needs to be a will to identify and apply the available technologies
Click to expand...

Tell that to the thousands of low income districts who have 32 kids in a 2nd grade class and zero money for any technology training, let alone the technology itself.
 
sangha said:
Untrue. From the CC standards for Grades 6-12

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Writing | Grade 6
Click to expand...

I believe they have tweaked the CCSS along the way. When we were first looking at them in our district, the website specifically said there was no creative writing in Common Core. It said something to the effect of "We don't hold creative writing as a standard in CCSS, but teachers may choose to include it in the curriculum if they want."


Untrue

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Anchor Standards | College and Career Readiness Anchor Standards for Reading[/quote]

I didn't say there wasn't going to by ANY fiction in CCSS. Everyone who has a basic understanding of CCSS agrees that teaching and encouraging fictional reading is reduced.

Hatuey said:
False - as per Republicans:

A rural Georgia GOP leader on Common Core: Republicans should... | Get Schooled | www.ajc.com
Click to expand...

Republican doesn't necessarily equal conservative.

Hatuey said:
Good. Kids should be heavily documented in order to give them better options once they reach higher learning. Also, so teachers are supported by evidence when they fail kids because of the work they do/don't do. There are far too many cases of personal bias being used by teachers these days. Don't like kid X? ****ty grade. I'm all in favor of teachers having to support their qualifications with evidence. Why aren't you?
Click to expand...

SOME kids needs lots of documentation. Not most and certainly not all.
 
Last edited:
Josie said:
Again, CCSS are the standards by which companies produce curricula. Each district chooses from "Common Core aligned" programs to purchase for their teachers and students. The specific questions will vary, depending on the writers of the program, their viewpoints, their philosophies....but it all goes back to the Common Core standards.
Click to expand...

Josie, help me understand. Is common core just another name for outcome based education, recycled? It sure sounds familiar.
 
Redress said:
I will help Josie out by giving you her answer to you: you are wrong! Glenn says it is a communist takeover! The whole story on Common Core – Glenn Beck

And now we know why she is spreading so much inaccurate information about Common Core.
Click to expand...

Oh, look. The person who can't have a political conversation with me without bringing up Glenn Beck.

Hatuey said:
Actually, I'm not claiming it's a conservative idea. I'm claiming it's a bipartisan program where everyone gets what they want:

Liberals - Required learning.
Conservatives - Higher standards.
Libertarians - State controlled, teacher created.
Click to expand...

Stuff like the above baffles me. If you honestly believe everyone of all political persuasions is perfectly happy with CCSS - and it gives everyone what they want - I have a district full of parents, teachers and administrators I'd like you to meet.
 
Josie said:
I believe they have tweaked the CCSS along the way. When we were first looking at them in our district, the website specifically said there was no creative writing in Common Core. It said something to the effect of "We don't hold creative writing as a standard in CCSS, but teachers may choose to include it in the curriculum if they want."



I didn't say there wasn't going to by ANY fiction in CCSS. Everyone who has a basic understanding of CCSS agrees that teaching and encouraging fictional reading is reduced.
Click to expand...

I don't believe a word you've said. You keep implying that you're some kind of expert on CC, but every assertion you have made about it has been shown to be false.


Republican doesn't necessarily equal conservative.
Click to expand...

It sure doesn't make him a liberal or a progressive
 
jimbo said:
Josie, help me understand. Is common core just another name for outcome based education, recycled? It sure sounds familiar.
Click to expand...

Common Core is another name for "Driving teachers who love their jobs out of schools".
 
sangha said:
I don't believe a word you've said. You keep implying that you're some kind of expert on CC, but every assertion you have made about it has been shown to be false.




It sure doesn't make him a liberal or a progressive
Click to expand...

No, I don't think I'm an "expert" on CCSS. I've been in countless meetings (before you even knew the term Common Core, I bet) about this. I've gone to conferences, I've been part of committees creating the new report cards. I've gone through each standard line by line to determine how to assess each one and what documentation to provide for each one. I was head of a curriculum committee to determine which reading series our district should adopt (Common Core aligned, of course!) where we had to go through every single page of 7 teachers manuals tallying how many times a non-fiction or fiction story was used, how many times vocabulary, phonics, and fluency was taught. I don't know everything about CCSS. No one does because they're constantly adding to it and each state is adding even more to what teachers have to do. Ask a public school teacher how he/she's feeling with all of this coming down the pike. It's massive ... it's overwhelming...and it's driving good teachers out the door.
 
Josie said:
No, I don't think I'm an "expert" on CCSS. I've been in countless meetings (before you even knew the term Common Core, I bet) about this. I've gone to conferences, I've been part of committees creating the new report cards. I've gone through each standard line by line to determine how to assess each one and what documentation to provide for each one. I was head of a curriculum committee to determine which reading series our district should adopt (Common Core aligned, of course!) where we had to go through every single page of 7 teachers manuals tallying how many times a non-fiction or fiction story was used, how many times vocabulary, phonics, and fluency was taught. I don't know everything about CCSS. No one does because they're constantly adding to it and each state is adding even more to what teachers have to do. Ask a public school teacher how he/she's feeling with all of this coming down the pike. It's massive ... it's overwhelming...and it's driving good teachers out the door.
Click to expand...

None of that explains why you've made untrue statements about CC, nor does it indicate that my claim about CC having an ideological basis in the right wing was false.

I understand that you do not support CC. I also understand that you do not support the left. But that doesn't mean that CC was a liberal/progressive idea.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom