• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

Is this the Bloom of Bloom's taxonomy, the fore-runner of the still-quietly-used at 100% Madeline Hunter Theory of Learning..

As one guy said, he spent his whole younger time trying to get in a box and now they're telling him to get out of the box..

And when I was in Junior High/High School"71", we had Horace Mann..

I was told by the old-timers in the 70's to just wait 5 years and a new way to do things would come along..Well, it's 38 years later and things are still changing in less than a decade every decade .

Harold Bloom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Allan Bloom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
They're different Blooms than Bloom's Taxonomy which is why I edited that out.
 
Hint: Obama's education policies have been extremely right wing and liberal orgs (ex UFT and NEA) do not support them. Simply chanting "Obama, Obama!" doesn't prove anything. Obama has also continued many of bush*'s policies regarding terrorism.
Rahm Emmanuel is no liberal in education, just ask Chicago's Teacher's Union, so yes on right-wing..
The other Daley wasn't liberal either and neither is Arne Duncan..

Indiana elected a Democratic state supt. of school and she immediately opted out of common-core and especially the teacher evaluations, which even teachers admitted had a lot of good work that took a lot of time..

Here in Illinois, we still have the CC albatross thrown around our necks from my POV as Repubs are probably saying about ACA--too much, too fast, too unorganized, (paid retired administrators, teachers)
 
Um...the entire thing is a progressive's dream. Every single child in every single class will be looked at with a microscope. Every single piece of their emotional, social behavior and academics will be documented and put into a neat little file for government officials to see and use. That's massive government - NOT a conservative ideal by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm assuming you missed the comment I added to my post so I'll repeat it:

The Common Core initiative does not require any measurement of a childs social skills or emotional state.



Bwhahahaha!

It seems that the only argument you can make is "nuh-uh"




Oh, really? Show me UFT and NEA articles, speeches and videos of members who are protesting Common Core and Race to the Top. I want to see them.

Please tell me....

If it's a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it? If it's a conservative idea, why are the most outspoken conservatives in America calling for an end to it? And if it's a conservative idea, why did every progressive state immediately jump on the CCSS bandwagon?

Umm, most conservative states, huh? 45 five out 50 states are implementing it. Only five states haven't implemented yet, and three of them have joined the initiative.
 
Last edited:
If it's a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it? If it's a conservative idea, why are the most outspoken conservatives in America calling for an end to it? And if it's a conservative idea, why did every progressive state immediately jump on the CCSS bandwagon?

Conservative states don't like the grades their kids are getting so they blame the tests on the feds in many areas.
They don't want to administer the tests at the current cost and are playing the state's rights card..

Maine opted out of the science portion of the NECAP because their kids were getting pounded..

Blue states are stupidly trying to maintain CC to show how tough they are, especially since we do have a great group at the top long before any of this NCLB/CC..

Liberal state superintendents are bowing to the Unions as in Indiana, though a red state
 
Conservative states don't like the grades their kids are getting so they blame the tests on the feds in many areas.
They don't want to administer the tests at the current cost and are playing the state's rights card..

Maine opted out of the science portion of the NECAP because their kids were getting pounded..

Blue states are stupidly trying to maintain CC to show how tough they are, especially since we do have a great group at the top long before any of this NCLB/CC..

Liberal state superintendents are bowing to the Unions as in Indiana, though a red state

Since private for-profits are involved in developing the standards and selling schools materials to teach the CC, there's a lot of money involved.
 
sangha, you're not in the education field. You aren't hearing what's coming ahead like teachers and administrators are. Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about.
 
I'll be checking at school to see if the states setting the standards for books has changed much and their copyright dates, Texas and California..

What I do see on SchoolSpring.com is a lot of charter/private openings--it is mostly an Eastern web covering you..k12jobspot.com does the midwest and most openings are public..California is on both..

I don't see CC going away in Illinois..Teachers are upset at the curve used for Evaluations, but frankly some of them are terrible who advised not to be put on tenure..

no spark, no psyche, not prepared, no diversity, ****ty body language, I feel sorry for the kids that have those teachers..it makes it hard to defend their asses on this board, but I do it .

Since private for-profits are involved in developing the standards and selling schools materials to teach the CC, there's a lot of money involved.
 
It's nothing more than the extension of lefitist revisionism.

First used by the Bolsheviks and became standard operating procedure by Joseph Stalin and picked up by Communist Party USA.
When the "New Left" (todays liberals and progressives) split off from CPUSA during the 1950's they used our schools and colleges and universities to inordinate young opened minded kids by rewriting just not history to further their socialist agenda but also the English language.
 
no spark, no psyche, not prepared, no diversity, ****ty body language, I feel sorry for the kids that have those teachers..it makes it hard to defend their asses on this board, but I do it .

What does this mean? You will gladly defend crappy teachers? WHY??
 
sangha, you're not in the education field. You aren't hearing what's coming ahead like teachers and administrators are. Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about.

Yeah, you're such an expert you falsely claimed that most conservative states had rejected CC (the truth is only two have) and the CC requires measuring childrens social skills and emotional status.

Again, the only argument you seem to have is "nuh-uh"
 
Because we're stuck with them..CC may be the only chance we have in a decade to making them better teachers..CC allows for the eventual dismissal of a teacher, so he will improve or else..

We can't leave behind any teachers based on the current system, whether you like it or not..
You choose to clip just this one phrase and let the context go..

The rest of my comments on this thread have been with 38 years of experience behind them, after being a "strict" "college-prep" high school teacher..

Kids remember their great teachers, but they also remember the ones who hurt them for college and the ones who have a bad attitude..We must change the bad by helping them .
What does this mean? You will gladly defend crappy teachers? WHY??
 
Last edited:
Bah. You can't teach passion. Teachers who hate their jobs aren't going to turn into great teachers just because of strict evaluation standards.
 
How do you get that this a conservative idea, promoted by conservatives?

Josie, do you remember the beginnings of the accountability movement? It had an especially conservative angle, but it did become rather bi-partisan, eventually. There were antecedents during the 1950s and 1960s as a result of the Cold War, but the strength didn't really kick in until the 1980s. That was also due to domestic concerns rather than foreign policy concerns. Then you had Goals 2000 and a number of attempts to reform curriculum.

What I noticed was that at times conservatives liked standards and accountability measures, whereas at other points they do not. When I saw this I immediately thought of 1994.
 
The majority of the beef with Common Core isn't the standards themselves or the teacher accountability --- it's the massive amount of data that will be collected and recorded about their child.

I actually like the teacher evaluation process (from what I've learned about it anyway). The union hates it. :)
 
Bashing Teacher's Unions for protecting ****ty teachers overlooks a greater factor, NEPOTISM..
Know a board member, get a job..
Go to same high school and you're a male and a coach, get a special ed job for life..
Bang the boss, go on tenure no matter how bad you are..
Know the cliques..STFO of education if you have thin skin..
All new teachers should have taken the course on real-life in schools..
Know who the power parents are, who the kids of board members and school emplyees are, obviously the golden rule with custodians and secretaries .
 
If it is a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it? Why are the most outspoken conservatives in our nation demanding a stop to it? Why are progressive states embracing it?

After NCLB there was some intellectual rejection from both conservatives and liberals, while plenty of both accepted the basic precepts of accountability and improvement. Some decided that a nationally-accepted curriculum, however "improved" (and as you said, this is highly contentious), is dangerous and harmful. I think when national initiatives fail, there is the possibility that conservatives will reject it for different reasons from liberals doing the same. They will revert to state and local control, not necessarily concern about teachers being the experts in the field, and so forth. It turns into a debate of federalism, not pedagogy.

However, what conservatives are particularly sensitive toward, at least in this case, is what they see as propaganda relating to the social sciences and history. They tend to be much less worried about mathematics and science, as there is less radicalism in those subjects. Involve all subject matters and it becomes worrying. It was only the mid-90s when we last went through some of it. Nothing as strong has happened yet, but in those days, what people looked at was "teacher examples" and some approved textbooks.
 
Since Junior year is ACT and PSAE in Illinois on 2 days, we wrongfully don't make all of our juniors take a test prep course all year..Those schools with all the gold have had these classes in place for decades..

It would take at least a week to teach just one of the seven science passages, with all of its reading, tables, graphs and pictorials..Reading on the ACT has a ton of social science and history passages, at 10 minutes each times 4 for a 40 minute test..

Unless a school starts to make this a continuity thing, test scores for average kids will stay below average and math will get worse after what I took today as an example, 60 word/involved problems in 60 minutes, with more multi-question passages like science but required knowledge needed.
 
After NCLB there was some intellectual rejection from both conservatives and liberals, while plenty of both accepted the basic precepts of accountability and improvement. Some decided that a nationally-accepted curriculum, however "improved" (and as you said, this is highly contentious), is dangerous and harmful. I think when national initiatives fail, there is the possibility that conservatives will reject it for different reasons from liberals doing the same. They will revert to state and local control, not necessarily concern about teachers being the experts in the field, and so forth. It turns into a debate of federalism, not pedagogy.

However, what conservatives are particularly sensitive toward, at least in this case, is what they see as propaganda relating to the social sciences and history. They tend to be much less worried about mathematics and science, as there is less radicalism in those subjects. Involve all subject matters and it becomes worrying. It was only the mid-90s when we last went through some of it. Nothing as strong has happened yet, but in those days, what people looked at was "teacher examples" and some approved textbooks.

What I think people are conflating here is A) the notion of accountability and holding teachers to standards with B) the particular form of execution by this administration.
 
What I think people are conflating here is A) the notion of accountability and holding teachers to standards with B) the particular form of execution by this administration.

But you wouldn't want to hold it down to "this administration," because Common Core, like other nationally-inclined standards, are optional, and precede this administration. We're largely looking at a multi-decade long development, with CC being something out of the 90s, which was in turn inspired from changes made by the Reagan and Bush administrations and all other involved organizations.
 
Last edited:
But you wouldn't want to hold it down to "this administration," because Common Core, like other nationally-inclined standards, are optional, and precede this administration. We're largely looking at a multi-decade long development, with CC being something out of the 90s, which was in turn inspired from changes made by the Reagan and Bush administrations and all other involved organizations.

:shrug: I won't deny it's a long-buildup process. If I were to take Obamacare, and change it to include a subsidy for married couples but a $300,000 annual penalty for single parents who attempt or fail to purchase health insurance, that would be building up on a pre-existent process, too. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be abuse in pursuit of conservative goals.
 
:shrug: I won't deny it's a long-buildup process. If I were to take Obamacare, and change it to include a subsidy for married couples but a $300,000 annual penalty for single parents who attempt or fail to purchase health insurance, that would be building up on a pre-existent process, too. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be abuse in pursuit of conservative goals.

I'm skeptical of most attempts to dramatically alter education fortunes, myself. I'm expecting at most some modest gains, but perhaps more likely a lack of measurable success across the board (I won't speculate on harm).
 
If it is a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it? Why are the most outspoken conservatives in our nation demanding a stop to it? Why are progressive states embracing it?

... It seems like a progressive idea, but if you look at it - CC has been embraced by all. What isn't there to like about it? Organized by private interests, standardized testing for all, high standards, clean out the weak, state run curriculums. Isn't that what conservatives have asked for? Higher standards? They got it. Liberals wanted a standardized curriculum. They got it. Darwinist system for filtering out students who did not meet standards? Libertarian thing. States run it? Done.

Actually, on that last bit. If you look at it 45 STATES have adopted it all on their own. Are they all run by progressives? Some are but that is still 90% of the country adopting this program. So for you to say this a "progressive" gig is pretty weak when pretty much the entire country has adopted it whether they are conservative or liberal states.
 
Common Core is a progressive initiative, applauded by Obama, funded through the Race to the Top agenda and accepted whole-heartedly by blue states. Yet you still say it's a conservative idea. LOL!

If it is a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it? Why are the most outspoken conservatives in our nation demanding a stop to it? Why are progressive states embracing it?
It's the new meme, tie whatever conservatives are complaining about to originally being a conservative idea that was approved upon, this allows the "left" to claim the "right" is whining their idea was bettered and they are being petty. There is a memo out on the web to this effect, think it was on think progress... anyway, it's the current in thing to do.
 
Back
Top Bottom