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Common Core lessons blasted for sneaking politics into elementary classrooms

rabbitcaebannog said:
Talking about Reading Street, our district spend loads of money purchasing that program 5 years ago. We have since moved on to the Reader's Workshop model which again is costing loads of money for materials and training. During this economic downturn, people in our district were concerned of all the money it was costing. Very little was mentioned about how expensive this material and training cost. I bet people would be livid! The unfunded mandates keep growing.
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Yes. It's insane how much these programs cost. I think an admin told me that one reading textbook was like $40. We have 6 units with 25 books per unit. And that's not counting all the teacher's manuals, worksheets, big books, posters, etc. And that's just for first grade! I think the Reading Streets tests are too hard. They assess things that kids were JUST introduced to that week and they have long-winded, confusing questions- it's stupid. And I told my parents that at conferences.

Edit to add --- I just looked it up. "Hold the Flag High" is a story from 5th grade Reading Street.
 
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reinoe said:
NCLB mandated state-wide testing according to certain standards.
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And so does Common Core.

Furthermore it created state standards but didn't give the states sufficient funds.
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As does Common Core. How do you think every state is going to supply thousands of school districts with computer for every single student?

Furthermore early on it gave the military access to student records for god knows what reason. This actually led to recruiters stalking children. Lastly it set a precedent of expanding federal power.
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And Common Core gives the federal government access to student records as well.

The Common Core sets a federal standard with a theoretical federal testing as opposed to state testing. While ideally I'd rather not have the feds involved so much, NCLB set a new precedent (which is one of the reasons why I opposed it). Now that the cat's out of the bag might as well try and make it work. Federal testing across all states using a standardized education system is the way to go as opposed to the feds trying to mandate 50 different standards.
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Oh, I see. Now that Bush's plan (the one you hated) lead to an even BIGGER government education plan (the one you DON'T hate), you're okay with it. Yeah, you sound like a libertarian. :roll:
 
I don't like the response of "it's too hard". You'd be surprised at what kids can do when pushed. Unfortunately the problem comes from un-involved parents. Well un-involved until their kids screw up, then all of a sudden Billy's school behavior is the most important thing in the world. And that I think is the problem in large part. If a teacher pro-actively contacts a parent about something in order to nip a problem in the bud, there's a 50% chance the parent is just going to give attitude.

Between beauracrats, parents, and difficult kids it's a wonder any progress can ever be made.
 
Teachers only have one long journey, even if you change schools a few times..Enjoy your journey instead of getting hyper online..

This should be a cool time of the year for grade-school teachers, which I am but a retired high school teacher..Tomorrow, I take Mom to an in-session K-8 which has a Veterans program, a great real-life learning experience..

Then, elementary teachers have two-and-a-half more weeks to teach their kids the lessons of Thanksgiving and the 4 seasons where I live..

Then we have 3 short weeks before Christmas where lessons of collection for the poor, dressing for the cold, playing winter sports, and family gatherings are reinforced..

To think a real teacher and a good teacher can't positively control the overall curriculum in their classroom and pay the needed lip service to common-core is silly..Please enjoy your journey the next 6 weeks teachers before the Holidays ..
 
I have a class full of very smart kids this year. Because of the stupid wording on the tests and assessing things too soon, they get Cs and Ds on the weekly test instead of what they're capable of. I give a separate test every week that actually assesses their true reading abilities to balance it out.
 
Josie said:
And so does Common Core.
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I wasn't clear on that one...
NCLB is telling the states what the state standards are/were.

Josie said:
As does Common Core. How do you think every state is going to supply thousands of school districts with computer for every single student?
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I had no idea about the computers thing. That's absolutely unreasonable.

Josie said:
And Common Core gives the federal government access to student records as well.
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Again, I'm opposed to this.

Josie said:
Oh, I see. Now that Bush's plan (the one you hated) lead to an even BIGGER government education plan (the one you DON'T hate), you're okay with it. Yeah, you sound like a libertarian. :roll:
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If there is going to be a standard, then there should be a single federal standard with a single federal test. NCLB mandated 50 standards for all 50 states. This has nothing to with Bush. I'd rather the feds not be involved, but if the feds are going to be involved then they should do it right. Both programs are wrong but Common Core seems to be on a reasonable track of having on standard.
 
reinoe said:
If there is going to be a standard, then there should be a single federal standard with a single federal test. NCLB mandated 50 standards for all 50 states. This has nothing to with Bush. I'd rather the feds not be involved, but if the feds are going to be involved then they should do it right. Both programs are wrong but Common Core seems to be on a reasonable track of having on standard.
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A national curriculum isn't something any true libertarian would be for.
 
reinoe said:
If there is going to be a standard, then there should be a single federal standard with a single federal test. NCLB mandated 50 standards for all 50 states. This has nothing to with Bush. I'd rather the feds not be involved, but if the feds are going to be involved then they should do it right. Both programs are wrong but Common Core seems to be on a reasonable track of having on standard.
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I doubt very much you would like the results of a total-one size-fits all-standard. In order for a single standard to exist, it has to consider the inevitable results of the lower tier while also making room for excellence on the opposite side of the spectrum. This would mean the needed flexibility would not exist, and once it does not exist, you make the choice between "asking for too little" or "asking for too much." On top of that, a single federal standard would require social and political issues be solved. This is why, I suspect, social studies continues to remain the areas in which they receive less in the way of national standards, and on top of that, political agreement. We've been there before. Watch for it to show up again.
 
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Josie said:
A national curriculum isn't something any true libertarian would be for.
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I could see a national list of minimum requirements as a good replacement for the Department of Education.
 
cpwill said:
I could see a national list of minimum requirements as a good replacement for the Department of Education.
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Am I interpreting this to mean a listing of minimum requirements would remove the necessity of the DOE? Or are you stating that at a baseline, state standards must meet _____ criteria per subject and skill area?
 
Josie said:
A national curriculum isn't something any true libertarian would be for.
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Well after learning about this program a bit more I've gone from being indifferent to slightly against. But the multitude of variables and customizations greatly increases costs. That's something a single standard would also address. But the more I'm finding out about the actual implementation the more unreasonable it's proving to show itself.
 
reinoe said:
Well after learning about this program a bit more I've gone from being indifferent to slightly against. But the multitude of variables and customizations greatly increases costs. That's something a single standard would also address. But the more I'm finding out about the actual implementation the more unreasonable it's proving to show itself.
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You'd think you would've found out more about it before having such a strong opinion. :shrug:
 
Fiddytree said:
Am I interpreting this to mean a listing of minimum requirements would remove the necessity of the DOE? Or are you stating that at a baseline, state standards must meet _____ criteria per subject and skill area?
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I am saying a baseline for state standards and also for school accreditation. It's a bit more broad than just this - I would also have every High School Graduate take the Citizenship Exam (this is assuming I have magical dictator powers) and use passing that exam as a pre-requisite for voting (though you can re-take the exam at any time thereafter). I would replace the vast majority of the current DOE with education credits that go to the parents (with a focus on those with greater need, such as low-income or parents of special needs children), and "Education" can cease being a Department-level organization. :)
 
cpwill said:
I am saying a baseline for state standards and also for school accreditation. I would replace the vast majority of current DOE spending with education credits that go to the parents, given dictatorial powers :), and "education" can cease being a Department-level organization.
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The DOE has largely done portions of that for decades (more emphasis in some areas than others, of course). It's just that now we are moving closer and closer toward your likely final endgame. In my area of educational experience, it is pretty much undeniable that the DOE is vastly influential toward the improvement for the education of those students (mostly because without it, public and private schools would do nothing).
 
Fiddytree said:
The DOE has largely done portions of that for decades (more emphasis in some areas than others, of course). It's just that now we are moving closer and closer toward your likely final endgame. In my area of educational experience, it is pretty much undeniable that the DOE is vastly influential toward the improvement for the education of those students (mostly because without it, public and private schools would do nothing).
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For special needs kids - yeah; although from what I understand the increased funding can create perverse incentives for local school administrators to rapidly and possibly over-class kids as "special needs". I wouldn't be able to speak to that with anything close to your background or knowledge, however, and would defer to you if you tell me I am incorrect in it's actual application.
 
I'll go on to Part 4 in a bit.

I want to reiterate that as a teacher, my number one concern about Common Core (and NCLB, for that matter) is that teachers are being turned into data-producing robots who test, test, test constantly instead of teaching. Students are being turned into unimaginative, non-creative answer-givers. But the answer better be written in the "correct" way or it's wrong even if it's right! Oy.
 
cpwill said:
For special needs kids - yeah; although from what I understand the increased funding can create perverse incentives for local school administrators to rapidly and possibly over-class kids as "special needs". I wouldn't be able to speak to that with anything close to your background or knowledge, however, and would defer to you if you tell me I am incorrect in it's actual application.
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In some areas, yes, federal policy (either exclusively for special education or general education impacting special education), can create incentives for over-identifying. Measurement, however, would be more difficult. Historically, however, I would also state that it is undeniably better than the decades preceding federal involvement, because early-era special education was truly where you would throw any "problem child," immigrant, or racial minority that didn't quite do what the classroom teacher wanted.

This is where the fun "unintended consequences" neocon thing can get handy. :mrgreen:
 
Josie said:
I'll go on to Part 4 in a bit.

I want to reiterate that as a teacher, my number one concern about Common Core (and NCLB, for that matter) is that teachers are being turned into data-producing robots who test, test, test constantly instead of teaching. Students are being turned into unimaginative, non-creative answer-givers. But the answer better be written in the "correct" way or it's wrong even if it's right! Oy.
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You got that right. NCLB and "Race to the Top" created a test centered curriculum and pressure to get the test scores up no matter what.

We'd be far better off without the Department of Education, IMO.

There are better ways of measuring student progress than via a multiple guess test at the end of the year, it seems to me. Do all your students even try to get the answers right?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Do all your students even try to get the answers right?
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When I taught 3rd grade and had to administer state assessments, I would sit there watching these 9 year olds try to get through pages and pages of material in 45 minutes. Especially when it came to reading, many kids would just glance at the passage and then just half-heartedly read the questions/answers. Some of my lowest readers would just mark answers down the page because they knew they had zero chance of getting them right. It was exhausting to watch them.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You got that right. NCLB and "Race to the Top" created a test centered curriculum and pressure to get the test scores up no matter what.
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I would pull it much earlier than that. At the very least you want to start with Goals 2000. This has been a long time coming.

We'd be far better off without the Department of Education, IMO.
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Seriously disagree.

There are better ways of measuring student progress than via a multiple guess test at the end of the year, it seems to me. Do all your students even try to get the answers right?
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Many times there are better ways, but they also tend to be more subjective ways.

If the number one (two or three) concern in America is "the status of the American education system" you will look for national means of measuring student progress or failure. If you are looking for national student progress or failure, you want a more unified system in which to measure that. As such, you get simple, easy-to-understand exams and easily quantified data. This despite we can also extensively critique the exams, the rationale behind them, and the value of the results.
 
Josie said:
When I taught 3rd grade and had to administer state assessments, I would sit there watching these 9 year olds try to get through pages and pages of material in 45 minutes. Especially when it came to reading, many kids would just glance at the passage and then just half-heartedly read the questions/answers. Some of my lowest readers would just mark answers down the page because they knew they had zero chance of getting them right. It was exhausting to watch them.
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Yes, I taught 4th. graders who were smart enough to figure out that the results of the tests didn't affect them much anyway. They'd sit and do their best on the first 45 minute test, but when it came to the second, third, fourth, etc., more and more of them would be "all finished" in five minutes or less. When people get upset about test scores not being high enough, I take the results with a grain of salt.
 
Josie said:
Common Core is a progressive initiative, applauded by Obama, funded through the Race to the Top agenda and accepted whole-heartedly by blue states. Yet you still say it's a conservative idea. LOL!
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The Common Core initiative is sponsored by the National Governors Association (NGA) and the Council of Chief State School Officers (CCSSO). It's been whole heartedly accepted by 46 states.

These governors aren't Progressives....

http://www.nga.org/files/live/sites/NGA/files/pdf/COMMITTEELIST.PDF



If it is a conservative idea, why are the most conservative states rejecting it?
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Because Obama likes it.

Why are the most outspoken conservatives in our nation demanding a stop to it? Why are progressive states embracing it?
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Kentucky is a red state.....


"...Kentucky was the first to implement the Common Core standards, and began offering the new curriculum in math and English in August of 2010. In 2013 Time magazine reported that the high school graduation rate had increased from 80% in 2010 to 86% in 2013, test scores went up 2 percentage points in the second year of using the Common Core test, and the percentage of students considered to be ready for college or a career, based on a battery of assessments, went up from 34% in 2010 to 54% in 2013.....

Common Core State Standards Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Dittohead not! said:
Yes, I taught 4th. graders who were smart enough to figure out that the results of the tests didn't affect them much anyway. They'd sit and do their best on the first 45 minute test, but when it came to the second, third, fourth, etc., more and more of them would be "all finished" in five minutes or less. When people get upset about test scores not being high enough, I take the results with a grain of salt.
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Yep. They'd ask me if it was for a grade and I'd tell them it was like the school was getting a grade. I knew they didn't care much about that.
 
Fiddytree said:
I would pull it much earlier than that. At the very least you want to start with Goals 2000. This has been a long time coming.



Seriously disagree.



Many times there are better ways, but they also tend to be more subjective ways.

If the number one (two or three) concern in America is "the status of the American education system" you will look for national means of measuring student progress or failure. If you are looking for national student progress or failure, you want a more unified system in which to measure that. As such, you get simple, easy-to-understand exams and easily quantified data. This despite we can also extensively critique the exams, the rationale behind them, and the value of the results.
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If you want to know how well kids can write, you give them a subject and have them write about it. If you want to know how well they read, do a reading inventory. If you want to know how well they do math, give them a math problem to work on. Good teachers knew how well their kids could read, write, and do math long before anyone thought of the NCLB tests. All that is needed is to standardize the reading inventories, math sheets, and writing assessments. That doesn't have to be subjective, at least not very, and is far and away more accurate than a multiple guess test that kids don't care about.
 
Dittohead not! said:
If you want to know how well kids can write, you give them a subject and have them write about it. If you want to know how well they read, do a reading inventory. If you want to know how well they do math, give them a math problem to work on. Good teachers knew how well their kids could read, write, and do math long before anyone thought of the NCLB tests. All that is needed is to standardize the reading inventories, math sheets, and writing assessments. That doesn't have to be subjective, at least not very, and is far and away more accurate than a multiple guess test that kids don't care about.
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Fantastic, but as we all know, what the teachers say about student progress doesn't really matter. What matters is systemic discontent by American citizens, business leaders, and politicians. As a result, you're looking at systematically evaluating not only a student, a teacher, a school, a district, and a county or even Governor's units..you're evaluating entire states, regions, and the country as a whole. Try giving a "state" or "national" report card off of the varied evaluations a teacher thinks appropriate. We would be taking writing samples, surely systematizing them like the SAT/ACT/GRE, but it's still standardized, somewhat arbitrary stuff educators can and rightly do critique, right?
 
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