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Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

chromium said:
Well but they wanted a public option all along, and fell just short of the votes for it in the senate.
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Oh, I know they did. But the reality was that even with a super majority, there wasn't even a majority of Democrats that were willing to ge ton board at that time with a Public Option. Which was kind of my point...this was an attempt for a middle ground that is extremely ineffective because it bipolar in nature, with the philosophies within it conflicting with each other rather than accentuating each other. It's a transitional law that's undoubtably likely to fail in a variety of ways setting the stage for another battle for a Single Payer system or full on Market focused reform.
 
chromium said:
Well but they wanted a public option all along, and fell just short of the votes for it in the senate. The bill that passed the house would have been actual reform that could conceivably work. Perhaps that will be along the lines of how it ends up.
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and now do you think the American people will trust government to control all of health care when they cant even get a simple consumer web site to work after over 3 years and hundreds of millions of dollars
 
mak2 said:
It is disappointing Obama did not go for the UHC from the start.
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Even with a super majority in the Congress he just didn't have the votes to get such passed. He knew that, and knew it well in advance, having stated previously that it would need to be a multi-year process to get the public into a point where it'd accepted and welcome a Single Payer system as the primary means of health care in the country
 
lizzie said:
Why am I surprised that top hospitals can even opt out of taking patients with obamacare policies? For exactly the reason I strongly oppose obamacare. Because it is an attempt by government to gain control over our health care and our choices. Please tell me you can understand this concept.
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you being a self proclaimed libertarian you should not have to ask that question why doctors should be forced to accept Obama care insurance and or Medicare/Medicaid
 
VanceMack said:
At least it would have been honest.
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In today's world of politics, one has come to expect more honesty out of a used car salesman than a politician. Regardless of party.
 
I'm really beginning to believe that all this failure is by design.
 
mak2 said:
It is disappointing Obama did not go for the UHC from the start.
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because it wouldn't pass so now he is trying to back door it by demonizing insurance companies for abiding by the rules, but it will backfire because what sane American will trust government to run all of health care when they cant even get this right
 
Zyphlin said:
Even with a super majority in the Congress he just didn't have the votes to get such passed. He knew that, and knew it well in advance, having stated previously that it would need to be a multi-year process to get the public into a point where it'd accepted and welcome a Single Payer system as the primary means of health care in the country
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Also from what I read and heard, this plan was a rush, rush job to get through congress. The Democrats wanted it passed before Scott Brown was seated in the senate replacing Teddy Kennedy who had just died. Thus lowering the Democrats 60 vote filibuster proof majority to 59. I am sure there is much more than just that, but it is one reason for the rush job that make sense to me.
 
azgreg said:
thanks guys. Well I guess that's another hole that will need to be plugged huh?
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Obama has a crack team designing a plug...
 
trfjr said:
because it wouldn't pass so now he is trying to back door it by demonizing insurance companies for abiding by the rules, but it will backfire because what sane American will trust government to run all of health care when they cant even get this right
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Well...if the word out of Chicago is correct, the 'back door' is probably what he is most comfortable with.
 
azgreg said:
I'm really beginning to believe that all this failure is by design.
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That's a possibility. I mean, if you want to take control of something, what better way than to **** it up beyond any semblance of recognition, then proclaim that the whole system needs to be scrapped, and that you have a working solution?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Trying to find a honest politician is like trying to find a palm tree in the artic circle.
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You gave me my laugh for today. Yep, exactly right. When either party tries to push their political agenda, truth or even a sliver of truth has been cast aside a long time ago. All sorts of shenanigans will occur. Some one asked me yesterday if the the president actually believed what he was saying was the truth with the period added for emphasis. I replied, I believed he wanted to believe that he was telling the truth and wanted to believe it so much he actually believed he was telling the truth.

I hope I remembered that right as I thought my reply was kind of comical.
 
lizzie said:
Well, that is certainly interesting. I had no idea that they even could. I would venture a guess that there will be a stop put to that practice, in fairly short order.
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Well, corporate facism is the agenda, isn't it? Yes, in addition to now everyone is born in debt to corporate America, while at the same time corporate America now no longer has to provide insurance for employees, the Obama administration is talking of requiring doctors to work for whatever pay the government dictates or they will lose their medical license - so it follows they also will require hospitals to accept whatever payment the government dictates that they accept.

Really, the only "fair" thing to do is just go all the way and dictate what manner of employment a person will have and what it will pay, except those designated to live on welfare and those designated for mandatory government employment. No one should criticize this either until it has been tried out for at least 5 years.

The ACA is the greatest non-war fraud the government has ever committed. The most grotesque lie is that it provides insurance to the poor and uninsured. In fact, it justifies denying medical care to the poor and anyone else who isn't at least upper middle class by the HUGE deductibles and co-pays.

No supporter yet on the forum has explained how "the poor" come up with $12,700 deductible/copay.
 
joko104 said:
Well, corporate facism is the agenda, isn't it? Yes, in addition to now everyone is born in debt to corporate America, while at the same time corporate America now no longer has to provide insurance for employees, the Obama administration is talking of requiring doctors to work for whatever pay the government dictates or they will lose their medical license - so it follows they also will require hospitals to accept whatever payment the government dictates that they accept.

Really, the only "fair" thing to do is just go all the way and dictate what manner of employment a person will have and what it will pay, except those designated to live on welfare and those designated for mandatory government employment. No one should criticize this either until it has been tried out for at least 5 years.
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Unfortunately, it would not at all surprise me to find out that this will be the new reality at some point in time.
 
VanceMack said:
Im sure they are a quack wegion and wank as high as any in wome!

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Should anything go wrong Obama will deny any knowledge of the fault in developing the plug, of course.
 
Zyphlin said:
Even with a super majority in the Congress he just didn't have the votes to get such passed. He knew that, and knew it well in advance, having stated previously that it would need to be a multi-year process to get the public into a point where it'd accepted and welcome a Single Payer system as the primary means of health care in the country
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The sad thing about this path we've taken is it's basically predicated on getting enough voters (and town hall nitwits) to hate their health care and demand real reform. You criticized the politicians for allowing the predictable cascade of failure from obamacare, but they - or i should say a few dems and all repubs - similarly failed to do anything to prevent say 100 million people with lousy/no health care by 2024 that will lead to this demand. The only thing that could possibly prevent both scenarios was public option or single payer. The whole "market based solution" was elusive even as a serious counter-proposal because there is none.
 
Of COURSE you get another option after they kill your plan....
(you know...that plan you already had, liked, bought because it fit your needs, etc)

 
Edited...this was unfair. Will repost later
 
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apdst said:
You mean the healthcare system is going to collapse for 5%?
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Sure, why not? The other 95% had it coming anyway. Look in the mirror and say "Yes we can." Then, go watch the movie Putney Swope. You'll feel better.
 
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