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Top hospitals opt out of ObamaCare

sangha said:
I'm not buying your bait and switch tactics. One minute, doctors are not accepting Medicare because of paneling, and the next, they are accepting Medicare because of the increased reimbursements.

And then, it's not about doctors opting out of Medicare; it's doctors opting out of ACA
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you are the one offering a bait and switch. The OP cited an article referencing hospitals opting out of the ACA and you respond with an article about 'more' providers accepting Medicare. I accepted your position that 'more' might be braving the pain in the ass that is Medicare panelling (ask CC what kind of a nightmare it can be) as the legislature has increased reimbursement.

I also cited an article linked from the same site you referenced that shows the 'increase' promised to providers has been suspended.

Offer enough compensation, make it profitable, and providers will go through the process. The OP isn't stating Hospitals are opting out because they hate Obama, but rather the rate of reimbursement is not profitable.
 
VanceMack said:
you are the one offering a bait and switch. The OP cited an article referencing hospitals opting out of the ACA and you respond with an article about 'more' providers accepting Medicare.
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I posted that link in response to the claim (was it yours?) that doctors are opting out of medicare. Please don't imply that I brought up Medicare and whether doctors were accepting it or not.


I accepted your position that 'more' might be braving the pain in the ass that is Medicare panelling (ask CC what kind of a nightmare it can be) as the legislature has increased reimbursement.

I also cited an article linked from the same site you referenced that shows the 'increase' promised to providers has been suspended.

Offer enough compensation, make it profitable, and providers will go through the process. The OP isn't stating Hospitals are opting out because they hate Obama, but rather the rate of reimbursement is not profitable.
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IMO, the OP didn't have much of any point. All it offers is anecdotal evidence about a few hospitals.
 
VanceMack said:
Healthcare providers have demonstrated that they arent planning on attempting to panel for ACA programs. Do you understand the provider/paneling process? It is a pain in the ass by itself. The worst of the processes is the Medicare/Medicaid paneling which is why, shockingly, many providers are not Medicare/Medicaid providers.

You WANT so desperately for what you say to be true.
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Of course I understand Doctor paneling..... in fact, I have a picture to prove it:

Doctor paneling.jpg


But you really a squirming in your retorts. You don't seem to understand how this works. The fundamental precept of Obamacare is the establishment of marketplaces to sell insurance products. Many of these products are offered by companies that have existing networks. Doctors and hospitals do not have to opt in or opt out. They are either in a network or not. If the Obamacare product subscribes to the market (and that is usually on an insurance company by insurance company basis), they are "in" Obamacare through no choice of their own. There are no specific requirements of the provider placed on them by the ACA.... The US News Article is simply saying that many of the top hospitals are not in the networks of the companies currently offering the plans on the exchange. It is move of a commentary on the insurance companies that are participating in the ACA. The article never implies that the hospital or provider opted in or opted out (because they did not). The title of the article is misleading, as no where in the text does it say that the providers opted out (it only says it in the title)

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare

The market is immature. You really can not speculate on where it is going to go. Not all insurance companies are participating; some are participating and offer "lite" products to keep the product cheap. The current thrust of the marketplace is to sign up those that are uninsured because they can't afford insurance or do not think they need it. Accordingly, low cost products are the first to market. Long-term, however, the marketplace will inhabited by all individuals seeking health insurance (including those that can afford premium policies) as well as most small businesses. It will be a robust marketplace with lots of products. The marketplace is not just Baltic and Mediterranean.

It is silliness to unintelligent to gauge the entire market and and the success of the program based on a snapshot of an immature market 30-90 days into the program. The almost identical program works very well in MA.

yes, I do want this to succeed. It is my country's best effort at establishing health care for all of its citizens. It is long overdue and generations in the making.


Health care reform.jpg

I am sorry you see fit to want America to fail and wanting it with such passion that you need to over analyze the events of each moment. That kind of analysis does not work in managing investments nor starting a business. Its just foolishness.
 
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upsideguy said:
Of course I understand Doctor paneling..... in fact, I have a picture to prove it:

View attachment 67156289


But you really a squirming in your retorts. You don't seem to understand how this works. The fundamental precept of Obamacare is the establishment of marketplaces to sell insurance products. Many of these products are offered by companies that have existing networks. Doctors and hospitals do not have to opt in or opt out. They are either in a network or not. If the Obamacare product subscribes to the market (and that is usually on an insurance company by insurance company basis), they are "in" Obamacare through no choice of their own. There are no specific requirements of the provider placed on them by the ACA.... The US News Article is simply saying that many of the top hospitals are not in the networks of the companies currently offering the plans on the exchange. It is move of a commentary on the insurance companies that are participating in the ACA. The article never implies that the hospital or provider opted in or opted out (because they did not). The title of the article is misleading, as no where in the text does it say that the providers opted out (it only says it in the title)

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare

The market is immature. You really can not speculate on where it is going to go. Not all insurance companies are participating; some are participating and offer "lite" products to keep the product cheap. The current thrust of the marketplace is to sign up those that are uninsured because they can't afford insurance or do not think they need it. Accordingly, low cost products are the first to market. Long-term, however, the marketplace will inhabited by all individuals seeking health insurance (including those that can afford premium policies) as well as most small businesses. It will be a robust marketplace with lots of products. The marketplace is not just Baltic and Mediterranean.

It is silliness to unintelligent to gauge the entire market and and the success of the program based on a snapshot of an immature market 30-90 days into the program. The almost identical program works very well in MA.

yes, I do want this to succeed. It is my country's best effort at establishing health care for all of its citizens. It is long overdue and generations in the making.


View attachment 67156291

I am sorry you see fit to want America to fail and wanting it with such passion that you need to over analyze the events of each moment. That kind of analysis does not work in managing investments nor starting a business. Its just foolishness.
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TLDR...you might as well have just stuck with your last statement because in the end...EVERYTHING ELSE you say is merely an attempt to make the abomination of a piece of legislation that no one that voted for it bothered to read a "good thing".
 
mak2 said:
If a person comes to the ER with the sniffles, sending them to the clinic is the appropriate triage. The problem with our current profit based system is the clinic is usually not an option if the patient does not have means to pay. It is kinda complicated, but a clinic is not required to treat people with no means to pay, and an ER is not either until the patient is too sick and must be stabilized. This situation is not the result of ACA. It just isnt.
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So, because we don't have enough clinics, we need to destroy the system? What kind of logic is that?
 
Not having enough clinics is one small symptom of an inefficient system.
j-mac said:
So, because we don't have enough clinics, we need to destroy the system? What kind of logic is that?
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pbrauer said:
Those people who buy their insurance through the exchanges is about 5% and I would venture a guess these are not people who go to the "top hospitals"

Which Top Hospitals Take Your Health Insurance Under Obamacare? - US News and World Report
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You would be wrong. I live near one of the highest rated hospitals in the country and they take a lot of medicare/medicaid/uninsured patients from my area. I happened to be in earshot once when a doctor was bitching someone else because a patient who had come in for a follow up left after the front desk staff had tried to get money out of them for their past due account. It basically boiled down to, "You either get them back in here today or you find a new job."
 
Oh yea, we know them docotrs dont care about money...
Fisher said:
You would be wrong. I live near one of the highest rated hospitals in the country and they take a lot of medicare/medicaid/uninsured patients from my area. I happened to be in earshot once when a doctor was bitching someone else because a patient who had come in for a follow up left after the front desk staff had tried to get money out of them for their past due account. It basically boiled down to, "You either get them back in here today or you find a new job."
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mak2 said:
Oh yea, we know them docotrs dont care about money...
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The ones who work in top tier hospitals often make enough that they do not need to worry about it.
 
mak2 said:
Oh yea, we know them docotrs dont care about money...
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LOL. No smart person would ever trust a doctor or anybody else that "don't care about money".
 
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