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Panetta: US may have to use military force against Iran

Does the OP know what the word "remains" mean? As in does he know if someone says "We must remain strong" that they are staying we are currently strong and need to stay that way?
 
Does the OP know what the word "remains" mean? As in does he know if someone says "We must remain strong" that they are staying we are currently strong and need to stay that way?

I can guess his response to that: SOCIALISM!
 
no more war. somebody else's turn.
 
I made no reference to party. Both political parties like profiting from war. Unlike your immature blind partisan hatred.

Oh and about stabbing the troops in the back...
Republicans pushed for the war in Iraq but then refused to give them proper equipment. So you can just put the lid on that.

Refused to give them the proper equipment ?
Care to explain ? We went into Iraq with Clinton's military.

Are you one of those who advocated weighing down our grunts with so much body armor that they couldn't fight on their feet and had to fight in their Humvee's ?

When I hear "stabbing our troops in the back" I only think of when the Democrats sent American boys to fight in Vietnam and then stabbed them in the backs when they were still on the Battlefields of Vietnam.

But I guess forcing Obama's liberal politically correct Rules of Engagement (ROE) upon our troops in Afghanistan which are causing them to bleed and die could be considered stabbing our troops in the back.
 
Refused to give them the proper equipment ?
Care to explain ? We went into Iraq with Clinton's military.

Are you one of those who advocated weighing down our grunts with so much body armor that they couldn't fight on their feet and had to fight in their Humvee's ?

When I hear "stabbing our troops in the back" I only think of when the Democrats sent American boys to fight in Vietnam and then stabbed them in the backs when they were still on the Battlefields of Vietnam.

But I guess forcing Obama's liberal politically correct Rules of Engagement (ROE) upon our troops in Afghanistan which are causing them to bleed and die could be considered stabbing our troops in the back.

Obama is an expert at that. His escalation of the war in Afgan with his compromise surge and an announced withdrawal date, was the most blatant form of stabbing our troops in the back I've witnessed in my lifetime.
 
The hyperbole that comes out of some people is astounding, not to mention the gross inaccuracy. For example the "announced withdraw date" while its true that by Dec 31st 2014 the majority of combat troops will be out of Afghanistan, its still unsure what level of troops will remain behind after that.

I can't tell you how angry it makes me to see people twist themselves into whatever shape and opinion they need to have to criticize the President. There's no standards, no honesty.
 
America is exceptional.

I think that both Clinton and Obama, at best, are very reluctant American Exceptionalists.

America is exceptional in the sense of being unique, but...

Exceptional-ism is the perception that a country, society, or institution does not need to conform to normal rules or general principles because they believe themselves superior in some way.

I'd say Clinton and Obama, like many before them, are very willing exceptionalists.
 
We don't have enough space and I don't have enough time to list everything, but thank you for asking.

1. Toss the War Powers Act. Only Congress can declare war. Invading foreign lands are acts of war. Droning the people of other nations are acts of war. The point is that, per the Constitution only Congress can declare war. For various self-serving reasons Congress and the White House have subverted the Constitution for decades. That must end.

2. Women should be required to register for Selective Service. (Actually, I favor conscription with NO, ZERO, exemptions for the sons and daughters of the rich and powerful. The point being war SHOULD BE a national sacrifice, currently it is not. If you want to go to war you must know that you will likely sacrifice and that the sacrifice may be great.)

3. War taxes. I don't have specifics but corporations should not make huge profits as a result of armed conflict. Doing so and "owning" many members of Congress ensures a constant state of war. Killing people should not be good for business.

4. The US should leave Afghanistan, Iraq and North Africa soonest. We have no business there. Let the region deal with the region. Let the region deal with Iran. Israel is not an American state. We give them more support than we give Puerto Rico. If Israel didn't have our promised physical and fiscal support they would be more encouraged to be a better neighbor in their regional community. No matter, we cannot have Israel's safety dictate US policy. The US needs to leave the region. If the US wants to sacrifice for Israel then everyone needs to face the reality of sacrifice. It must be palpable. See number 2.

5. Declarations of war - by Congress - must have specific, clearly defined reasons. Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of that. You cannot know when to leave if you don't have a realistic and well defined mission. The "War on Terror" is nothing more than marketing bull**** that ensures the perpetuation of America's involvement in armed conflict.

6. Honor the nation's commitment to veterans. No more feel good yellow ribbon, flag waving, support the troops, invite a veteran to stand and wave at half-time horse sh*t, make the home folk feel good, garbage. In the consideration of war, realistic, long term costs related to veterans must be considered and/or debated in Congress openly and up front. The American People must know the long term costs of honoring their commitments to veterans and their families. Veterans deserve first rate assistance and services. Those things should be guaranteed BEFORE sending American men and women into the breech. Costs must be realistic and taxes must be agreed upon and levied as a consequence of declaring war.

These are a few things off the top of my head. Most if not all of the above will not/would not be popular because they require real sacrifice for all Americans. And that is the over arching point. War is just too damned easy for most Americans.
That is a good, strong post. Let me stew that over for a bit.
 
America is exceptional in the sense of being unique, but...

Exceptional-ism is the perception that a country, society, or institution does not need to conform to normal rules or general principles because they believe themselves superior in some way.

I'd say Clinton and Obama, like many before them, are very willing exceptionalists.
I think there are many ideas regarding American exceptionalism other than what you indicate... much goes beyond that, somewhat includes that but sails right on past it. But, I suppose,your way then every country would be considered exceptional in some ways at some point in its history.

We started a different way of doing it, plus we also seem quite good at it, had the blessings of two oceans of separation as well as weak neighbors allowing US an incubation stage coupled to a long growing stage unlike others...

We have other blessings as well, resources, our openness and liberties have brought us incredible prosperity and freedoms from the many needs that many others still experience. We have, for the most part, a good-hearted people, tho not perfect by any means.

I see a scant few others in world history even giving us much of a challenge for most exceptional exceptionalism.
 
America is exceptional.

I think that both Clinton and Obama, at best, are very reluctant American Exceptionalists.

oh please. "American exceptionalism" was fine when we were exceptional, now we're more "American dysfunctional" - hyperpartisanship abounds.

Obama almost got us intot the middle of Syria, thankfully Kerry (another hawk -betraying his early days as vehemently anti-interventionist), managed to give the Russians an opening, to call off the missile strikes.

A funny thing happened - Syria is complying with getting rid of the chem. weapons. I know, I know..it was all a brilliant gambit by Obama :roll:
(insert sarcasm emoticon here).

Obama has Susan Rice / Clapper/ Susan Power / and had Hillary Clinton in his appointed positions - all neo-cons; all interventionists.
 
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oh please. "American exceptionalism" was fine when we were exceptional, now we're more "American dysfunctional" - hyperpartisanship abounds.

Obama almost got us intot the middle of Syria, thankfully Kerry (another hawk -betraying his early days as vehemently anti-interventionist), managed to give the Russians an opening, to call off the missile strikes.

A funny thing happened - Syria is complying with getting rid of the chem. weapons. I know, I know..it was all a brilliant gambit by Obama :roll:
(insert sarcasm emoticon here).

Obama has Susan Rice / Clapper/ Susan Power / and had Hillary Clinton in his appointed positions - all neo-cons; all interventionists.
Yeah, Obama played that just right, even without wetting his pants...I think Bill Clinton caught it just right when he said, 'He's Luckier Than A Dog With Two Dicks'.

Ahhh, as regards exceptionalism, we are still pretty dang good, despite everything... can you think of even a close competitor to all the good we have brought to this planet? Might make for a good debate if you did.

Why don't you define your terms, please... as I hardly think of Hillary when I think of the term neo-con, much less the others. After Woody Wilson got us all caught up in WWI, we have been inexorably pulled more and more into world affairs...I liked it better when we just intervened in this hemisphere, kept things cool on this side of the Pacific and Atlantic. But those halcyon days seem long past [ can almost here the Beatles tune Yesterday playing in the background ], nobody else has the super power ring and secret decoder set, just us. I think isolationism died with Pearl Harbor...and if not, with 9-11...

Nostalgia is cool right up until we get attacked again.
 
Yeah, Obama played that just right, even without wetting his pants...I think Bill Clinton caught it just right when he said, 'He's Luckier Than A Dog With Two Dicks'.

Ahhh, as regards exceptionalism, we are still pretty dang good, despite everything... can you think of even a close competitor to all the good we have brought to this planet? Might make for a good debate if you did.

Why don't you define your terms, please... as I hardly think of Hillary when I think of the term neo-con, much less the others. After Woody Wilson got us all caught up in WWI, we have been inexorably pulled more and more into world affairs...I liked it better when we just intervened in this hemisphere, kept things cool on this side of the Pacific and Atlantic. But those halcyon days seem long past [ can almost here the Beatles tune Yesterday playing in the background ], nobody else has the super power ring and secret decoder set, just us. I think isolationism died with Pearl Harbor...and if not, with 9-11...

Nostalgia is cool right up until we get attacked again.
I'm old enough to have had anti-war protests during Vietnam; since then we've turned our backs on "the good we've done", as you say it.

I can't think of any war/intervention since and including then - with the possible exception of Yugoslavia - where we've done anything but meddle/
interfere with other countrys rights of self rule/determination.

My beef with Hilary is Libya - another misadventure where we took a stable state under auspice of a 'UN No Fly zone', and turned it into a targeted assasination of Qaddafi.
Which was regime change/assassination, and created the terrorist state Libya has become post Qaddafi. The US led NATO on this.

Both Hillary and Susan Rice pushse the "Viagra rape" crap that Libyan forces were uising rape as a weapon of war.

Not saying there wasn't some commanders that might have done so - but unfortunately rape is all too common in African wars.

Human rights organisations have cast doubt on claims of mass rape and other abuses perpetrated by forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, which have been widely used to justify Nato's war in Libya.


Nato leaders, opposition groups and the media have produced a stream of stories since the start of the insurrection on 15 February, claiming the Gaddafi regime has ordered mass rapes, used foreign mercenaries and employed helicopters against civilian protesters.

An investigation by Amnesty International has failed to find evidence for these human rights violations and in many cases has discredited or cast doubt on them. It also found indications that on several occasions the rebels in Benghazi appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence.

The findings by the investigators appear to be at odds with the views of the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, who two weeks ago told a press conference that "we have information that there was a policy to rape in Libya those who were against the government. Apparently he [Colonel Gaddafi] used it to punish people."

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton last week said she was "deeply concerned" that Gaddafi's troops were participating in widespread rape in Libya. "Rape, physical intimidation, sexual harassment, and even so-called 'virginity tests' have taken place in countries throughout the region," she said.

Donatella Rovera, senior crisis response adviser for Amnesty, who was in Libya for three months after the start of the uprising, says that "we have not found any evidence or a single victim of rape or a doctor who knew about somebody being raped".

She stresses this does not prove that mass rape did not occur but there is no evidence to show that it did. Liesel Gerntholtz, head of women's rights at Human Rights Watch, which also investigated the charge of mass rape, said: "We have not been able to find evidence."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...fi-ordered-rape-as-weapon-of-war-2302037.html
Hillary hyped it -also the Bengazi fiasco has to rest on her hands, I mean Obama and Company are very good at deflecting any accountability
but someone had to know about the poor security there.
IMHO ( and i can't prove it) Hillary knowingly left Bengazi under secure to cover up Libayn weapons smuggling to Syria.

If you need references, i'll try to find them/ tired of continuously making this point on various messageboards, but will do so. if need be,
 
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oh please. "American exceptionalism" was fine when we were exceptional, now we're more "American dysfunctional" - hyperpartisanship abounds.

Obama almost got us intot the middle of Syria, thankfully Kerry (another hawk -betraying his early days as vehemently anti-interventionist), managed to give the Russians an opening, to call off the missile strikes.

A funny thing happened - Syria is complying with getting rid of the chem. weapons. I know, I know..it was all a brilliant gambit by Obama :roll:
(insert sarcasm emoticon here).

Obama has Susan Rice / Clapper/ Susan Power / and had Hillary Clinton in his appointed positions - all neo-cons; all interventionists.
And all scumbags, too. I wouldn't trust my dogs with any of them, let alone other humans.
 
Because that's what you want to believe.

President Obama has issued the same warnings.

This is nothing new except for the conspiracy theorists and the Anti-Obama far right.

Are you talking of Obama's 'line in the sand' warning?
 
Apparently the best way to remain strong is to continue to feck with countries far away, choose their leaders for them, impose "democracy" on them, slaughter their innocents, destroy their infrastructures, exploit their national resources, send in select corporations to become local "partners", kill many of their adult males and drone the general population into submission. It's what America does to the rest of the world. Do all of this by sending the American People to do this. Do not send your own kith and ken. In Washington your job is to make everyone suffer but everyone in Washington. In Washington your job is to prosper. Walk proud, neocons, walk proud.

It seems you and your "likers" are products of the public school system. The poison they fill young minds with today. Simply amazing.
 
There's no standards, no honesty.

That's not quite true. The President we have in office has very low standards.
He is full of gross inaccuracies. The man is as dishonest as the day is long. But hey! Whadaya expect from a Socialist? Honesty?
 
I'm old enough to have had anti-war protests during Vietnam; since then we've turned our backs on "the good we've done", as you say it.

I can't think of any war/intervention since and including then - with the possible exception of Yugoslavia - where we've done anything but meddle/
interfere with other countrys rights of self rule/determination.

My beef with Hilary is Libya - another misadventure where we took a stable state under auspice of a 'UN No Fly zone', and turned it into a targeted assasination of Qaddafi.
Which was regime change/assassination, and created the terrorist state Libya has become post Qaddafi. The US led NATO on this.

Both Hillary and Susan Rice pushse the "Viagra rape" crap that Libyan forces were uising rape as a weapon of war.

Not saying there wasn't some commanders that might have done so - but unfortunately rape is all too common in African wars.


Hillary hyped it -also the Bengazi fiasco has to rest on her hands, I mean Obama and Company are very good at deflecting any accountability
but someone had to know about the poor security there.
IMHO ( and i can't prove it) Hillary knowingly left Bengazi under secure to cover up Libayn weapons smuggling to Syria.

If you need references, i'll try to find them/ tired of continuously making this point on various messageboards, but will do so. if need be,
Well, again, I take exception to what you are, seemingly, attempting lay down as the whole of American Exceptionalism... it is more than just where we use our military/which wars we have been in.

Despite that, and while I do not have a very high regard for this kind of stuff as I do think we, often, just need to let things flow their natural way... but going into Somalia and, after, going into Haiti, I think those were good-hearted efforts that were not aimed at just American interests... I think getting rid of the "Pineapple" in Panama probably did that country some good overall, as did booting the commies in Grenada and aiding the Contras against the Marxist Sandinistas in Nicaragua... I have been there, talked to many and, while divided on this Reagan assistance, I would say more appreciated the help at the time than didn't.

While I cannot know the inner workings of what might really be going on, I don't think we went into Iraq twice for any other reason than to push Saddam back, keep him from invading/intimidating his neighbors and killing his own people... and we thought he had WMD programs that he had agreed to stop, not just put into suspense until we weren't looking, with the agreed to cease fire in the first Gulf War. While many thought we just went there for oil, can we see some evidence of that... what oil did we get? We kept oil in the region flowing to the world, which indeed helps us as if the oil didn't flow they would all be flocking to our sources driving the price sky high...sure...but, I think we did the right thing going in there. And, we obviously had a reason to hit Afghanistan after 9 11.

American exceptionalism includes the fact that we produce more patents than any other country, our system has unleashed so many people to be better than they might have been elsewhere, we are still the immigrant capital of the world with people around the world hating us, but at the same time clamoring to come here and be a part...

I would say much has gone downhill in the last decade or so, I fear for the America I grew up in, but its always a struggle...I would have feared it if I grew up in the pushing towards socialism times of FDR with all the powerful predators beginning to stand up on their hind legs, clawing at the rest of the world until we had that big war... and the Iron Curtain dropping down afterwards...always a struggle, that is what life is, I guess.

So we are always remaking America, some try to push it in a less prudent direction, I am thinking that is what happened with Obama and this debacle of a health care plan... and the American people, good-hearted, get sucked in at the beginning and, suddenly, start seeing things much more clearly. We need to get more back to our roots, to the Feds only being responsible for what they were intended to be responsible for so that we can go back to being more free individuals, which is what this country was all about in the beginning... freedom for us.

I agree with you on the Benghazi fiasco... could tell there was something strange going down there right from the beginning, just stank to high heaven, nothing the admin was saying was quite plausible... and we still don't know. Why we helped eliminate a guy that was complying, Gaddafi had given up his WMDs and he was not a big trouble, similar to whats his name in Egypt, why are we eliminating, pushing aside these guys who are not great guys necessarily, but wow, in that part of the world to keep order, who could be really?

If you keep running into the same arguments, and you get to pick and choose, why not bookmark your sources or put some of them on a Word doc and then you have them ready for the next go round. No use reinventing the wheel every time. Just a suggestion.
 
Well, again, I take exception to what you are, seemingly, attempting lay down as the whole of American Exceptionalism... it is more than just where we use our military/which wars we have been in.

Despite that, and while I do not have a very high regard for this kind of stuff as I do think we, often, just need to let things flow their natural way... but going into Somalia and, after, going into Haiti, I think those were good-hearted efforts that were not aimed at just American interests... I think getting rid of the "Pineapple" in Panama probably did that country some good overall, as did booting the commies in Grenada and aiding the Contras against the Marxist Sandinistas in Nicaragua... I have been there, talked to many and, while divided on this Reagan assistance, I would say more appreciated the help at the time than didn't.

While I cannot know the inner workings of what might really be going on, I don't think we went into Iraq twice for any other reason than to push Saddam back, keep him from invading/intimidating his neighbors and killing his own people... and we thought he had WMD programs that he had agreed to stop, not just put into suspense until we weren't looking, with the agreed to cease fire in the first Gulf War. While many thought we just went there for oil, can we see some evidence of that... what oil did we get? We kept oil in the region flowing to the world, which indeed helps us as if the oil didn't flow they would all be flocking to our sources driving the price sky high...sure...but, I think we did the right thing going in there. And, we obviously had a reason to hit Afghanistan after 9 11.

American exceptionalism includes the fact that we produce more patents than any other country, our system has unleashed so many people to be better than they might have been elsewhere, we are still the immigrant capital of the world with people around the world hating us, but at the same time clamoring to come here and be a part...

I would say much has gone downhill in the last decade or so, I fear for the America I grew up in, but its always a struggle...I would have feared it if I grew up in the pushing towards socialism times of FDR with all the powerful predators beginning to stand up on their hind legs, clawing at the rest of the world until we had that big war... and the Iron Curtain dropping down afterwards...always a struggle, that is what life is, I guess.

So we are always remaking America, some try to push it in a less prudent direction, I am thinking that is what happened with Obama and this debacle of a health care plan... and the American people, good-hearted, get sucked in at the beginning and, suddenly, start seeing things much more clearly. We need to get more back to our roots, to the Feds only being responsible for what they were intended to be responsible for so that we can go back to being more free individuals, which is what this country was all about in the beginning... freedom for us.

I agree with you on the Benghazi fiasco... could tell there was something strange going down there right from the beginning, just stank to high heaven, nothing the admin was saying was quite plausible... and we still don't know. Why we helped eliminate a guy that was complying, Gaddafi had given up his WMDs and he was not a big trouble, similar to whats his name in Egypt, why are we eliminating, pushing aside these guys who are not great guys necessarily, but wow, in that part of the world to keep order, who could be really?

If you keep running into the same arguments, and you get to pick and choose, why not bookmark your sources or put some of them on a Word doc and then you have them ready for the next go round. No use reinventing the wheel every time. Just a suggestion.

don't strongly disagree with this; I do understand American exceptionalism is more then the excuse we use to project our hard power.

It isn't a bad thing -it's a good thing; and you make some good examples of our non-military exceptionalism.
Glad you get it on Qaddafi/Libya -few seem to do so.
Noriega was corrupt, and since this was Panama, and really is in our sphere of influene, I have no problem with him roting in jail.

I was thinking further back to Allende' (Chile), and our removal of Saddam - which wasn't our business.

I'm also not too happy the way we support the Sunni Cresent - considering we have naval bases in Qatar, and a military relationship with Saudi Arabia
it's understandable - but we wind up in useless confrontations with Iran.
I am very happy we might be finally be dialing that back; and perhaps recognizing the Shi'a states are going to align in their own power block (Shiite crescent).
I do strongly object to the counterinsurgency strategy we used in Iraq, and Afganistan. Iraq was just a bad idea. We fractured a stable state, and just look at it now. While Saddam was despicable, it was their country, and we had no real reason to depose him, except for the neo-con fantasy of spresding democray.

We are still stuck on stupid with Egypt; Obama recently suspended military aid, for no real reason. I do understand we cannot legally give military aid to a junta gov't;
but no one in Congress was forcing his hand, an he did so as the E.Muslim Brotherhood is still a real threat to stability there.

I'm not going to go thru the history over the deposing of Morsi -suffice to say he was bad for Egypty on both economic and security grounds.

It is their country, the best thing we can do is just keep up a normal relationship -as it is the most secular Arab state.

In short; we think it is our busines to go around the world imposing our values -it's not.
We could have hit the Taliban in Afg. post 9-11 without getting into this nationbuilding crap, but we didn't.

Remember Washington's Farewell Address about "entangling foreign alliances"? we followed that paradigm for centurys until NATO.

Not saying we can't have them, but we don't limit them to our real interests - like SEATO which led to Vietnam.
And fiasco's like Afg.
 
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It seems you and your "likers" are products of the public school system. The poison they fill young minds with today. Simply amazing.

Let me guess, you want us to know that you went to private school. And, you are under the impression that you are privy to a special understanding of the world around you. OK, was that a religious private school?

What poison are young minds filled with today? What do you find simply amazing?

At this point you've said nothing that relates to the OP or to my post. Are you able to flesh out your response above or do we need to guess what the hell you are trying to say?
 
What did I say?

Panetta was firing a shot over Obama's bow.
Obama is a certified idiot, professional prevaricator and a danger to humanity.


Exclusive: Obama’s Secret Iran Détente
by Eli Lake, Josh Rogin Nov 8, 2013 5:45 AM EST
Long before a nuclear deal was in reach, the U.S. was quietly lifting some of the financial pressure on Iran, a Daily Beast investigation reveals. How the sanctions were softened.

Exclusive: Obama

It really does make one wonder if Obama is a foreign agent.
 
What did I say?

Panetta was firing a shot over Obama's bow.
Obama is a certified idiot, professional prevaricator and a danger to humanity.




It really does make one wonder if Obama is a foreign agent.

No President in the history of the United States has the murky past of Barrack Obama and anyone who wants to discover more is ridiculed, called racist, etc. as though discovering more about the person who will lead the country and the world's superpower is a bad thing.

There certainly is a right to question whether he is incompetent or whether this is actually by design, but we do know for sure that this man is a habitual serial liar, preaching to the low infos who support him.
 
Apparently the best way to remain strong is to continue to feck with countries far away, choose their leaders for them, impose "democracy" on them, slaughter their innocents, destroy their infrastructures, exploit their national resources, send in select corporations to become local "partners", kill many of their adult males and drone the general population into submission. It's what America does to the rest of the world. Do all of this by sending the American People to do this. Do not send your own kith and ken. In Washington your job is to make everyone suffer but everyone in Washington. In Washington your job is to prosper. Walk proud, neocons, walk proud.

You want an explanation of why I think this is public school clap trap... here is why:

It's anti-American BS with all the cliches thrown in.
America would generally prefer to leave countries alone. We did this with Afghanistan for example, and look what happened.

Yes, we did support regimes, but the scourge of a mass murdering ideology called Communism was worth stopping. If you liked mass murder, then Communism was your thing.
Most societies do not have "democracy" imposed on them, they usually fight for it (Ever here of Egypt and a guy named Morsi?). If not, it's strange to see the entire Iron Curtain countries embrace it. Most people want to be free from oppression. Can you recall the joy of Iraqi's lining up to elect representatives? Knowing they might be shot? That's the inner fire we all have to be free, and Democracies are the best conduit to achieving this goal.
Americans have helped rebuild the countries they've vanquished. Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq... Ever hear of The Marshall Plan?
Send in select corporations? Who will help rebuild these places, and nobody is forcing them upon these countries. Hell the second after Bush43 left, the Germans scooted over to Iraq to try and score business.
Kill many of their adult males? Gulags? Like the Soviets? Absurdity I say, pure absurdity. Oh! On the battlefield? Terrorist types? Good... mow the ****ers down like wheat.
Drone the population in submission? Obama is the Drone Meister. He's knocking off vermin. Good! It's one thing he does I 100% support. If we hit innocents we tend to hear about it. Rarely happens, but if it does... sorry, war is not a game of perfect.

This is what America does you say?

You did go to public schools and are still in school or graduated not too long ago am I correct?
This sounds a bit like NIMBY, but not quite as polished. You sound like a student honing his anti-American craft; NIMBY would be impressed... he might give you a few pointers... like don't give guys like me so many easy targets to aim at.

Do yourself a favor. Leave America for 3 or four years. Go to eastern Europe, northern Europe, Central Europe (the consolation is the women are stunning and very friendly), then to the Middle East. Or China. Then come back and tell me how awful America is.
 
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You want an explanation of why I think this is public school clap trap... here is why:

It's anti-American BS with all the cliches thrown in.
America would generally prefer to leave countries alone. We did this with Afghanistan for example, and look what happened.

Yes, we did support regimes, but the scourge of a mass murdering ideology called Communism was worth stopping. If you liked mass murder, then Communism was your thing.
Most societies do not have "democracy" imposed on them, they usually fight for it (Ever here of Egypt and a guy named Morsi?). If not, it's strange to see the entire Iron Curtain countries embrace it. Most people want to be free from oppression. Can you recall the joy of Iraqi's lining up to elect representatives? Knowing they might be shot? That's the inner fire we all have to be free, and Democracies are the best conduit to achieving this goal.
Americans have helped rebuild the countries they've vanquished. Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq... Ever hear of The Marshall Plan?
Send in select corporations? Who will help rebuild these places, and nobody is forcing them upon these countries. Hell the second after Bush43 left, the Germans scooted over to Iraq to try and score business.
Kill many of their adult males? Gulags? Like the Soviets? Absurdity I say, pure absurdity. Oh! On the battlefield? Terrorist types? Good... mow the ****ers down like wheat.
Drone the population in submission? Obama is the Drone Meister. He's knocking off vermin. Good! It's one thing he does I 100% support. If we hit innocents we tend to hear about it. Rarely happens, but if it does... sorry, war is not a game of perfect.

This is what America does you say?

You did go to public schools and are still in school or graduated not too long ago am I correct?
This sounds a bit like NIMBY, but not quite as polished. You sound like a student honing his anti-American craft; NIMBY would be impressed... he might give you a few pointers... like don't give guys like me so many easy targets to aim at.

Do yourself a favor. Leave America for 3 or four years. Go to eastern Europe, northern Europe, Central Europe (the consolation is the women are stunning and very friendly), then to the Middle East. Or China. Then come back and tell me how awful America is.

So you went to a church supported private school? And college? What private university did you attend?
 
So you went to a church supported private school? And college? What private university did you attend?

Nope... went to a school that had teachers hand picked from across the nation until the 9th grade. Then attended a pretty decent public school. Went to university. Traveled much of the world.

I don't put much value on University, and quit halfway through. If you're going to be a scientist, engineer, MD... OK... but most folks don't need a college sheep skin. It's a waste of money; luckily I didn't waste barely any money as I was on scholarship.

And you? You still in high school?

PS. "church supported private school" ROTFLOL... fits perfectly with your previous comments. Why would you throw "church" in there... ROTFLOL (I know why)
 
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