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Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed..... [W:44:90]

Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

If it is airport policy that every baggage screening area must have two armed policemen present at all times...How was this guy able to stroll around the concourse calmly asking people if they were TSA and shooting at will?
If there were armed cops at the scene why was this allowed to go on so long?
Were the cops on coffee break or something? Why was he able to shoot so many people?
All I have heard was that the police were all heroes. Where were the "heroes" when the shooting started?

Agree. The 'hero' comments reek of collective ass-covering by responsible police administration.

Answers in no specific order:

  • Poor or non-existent communication
  • Lackadaisical personnel at all levels
  • Poor training or refresher training
  • Not enough K9 officers in facility
  • Nobody watching cameras and reporting
  • Poor facility threat analysis and personnel staging
  • No accountability at all command levels
  • Arrogance
  • Complete stupidity
  • Nobody really gave a ****.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Just not enough armed cops huh? Too big to be secure?
Do you think there will be more now?

I understand your MO this entire thread has been to throw out crazy statements and then attempt to capitalize on strawmen when people call you on said statements....sorry, but it's not my first rodeo with a hyper partisan that thinks acting absurdly makes for good debate. I made no such claim whether there wasn't "Enough armed cops" or suggested it was too big to secure. I simply suggested that acting like two armed LEO's being in the screening area of a Cat-X sized airports somehow means that this absolutely should've been stopped or that they must've been on "coffee break" when it occurred.

As with all things with regards to Airport Security it's an instance of finding the best ratio between the best security possible and the least amount of hassle to the traveling public. Whether or not this causes TSA to try and push for more of their LE Office's presence in the airports is something I don't know and quite frankly really couldn't comment on even if I did know. Taking a guess, I wouldn't be shocked if it's discussed since it was something discussed back during the early days of TSA starting up and when their current law enforcement arm was brought back under their purview some years ago.

I don't particularly think this singular instance necessitates such action, but that's a call way above my pay grade.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I understand your MO this entire thread has been to throw out crazy statements and then attempt to capitalize on strawmen when people call you on said statements....sorry, but it's not my first rodeo with a hyper partisan that thinks acting absurdly makes for good debate. I made no such claim whether there wasn't "Enough armed cops" or suggested it was too big to secure. I simply suggested that acting like two armed LEO's being in the screening area of a Cat-X sized airports somehow means that this absolutely should've been stopped or that they must've been on "coffee break" when it occurred.

As with all things with regards to Airport Security it's an instance of finding the best ratio between the best security possible and the least amount of hassle to the traveling public. Whether or not this causes TSA to try and push for more of their LE Office's presence in the airports is something I don't know and quite frankly really couldn't comment on even if I did know. Taking a guess, I wouldn't be shocked if it's discussed since it was something discussed back during the early days of TSA starting up and when their current law enforcement arm was brought back under their purview some years ago.

I don't particularly think this singular instance necessitates such action, but that's a call way above my pay grade.
I liked SMTAs answer much better.
My "MO" is to ask questions that maybe no one else is asking, as a means to open up new avenues of thinking. I didn't know this was supposed to be a "rodeo".
I believe that most of the "security" at airports are an illusion put in place to placate the people an ease their fears.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I liked SMTAs answer much better.
I believe that most of the "security" at airports are an illusion put in place to placate the people an ease their fears.

That, and to make us think that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

That, and to make us think that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.
I once went through LAX security with a pocket knife.
Before I went through the metal detector I put my car keys, some change and the knife, that I forgot I had, in the little tray the TSA guy handed me.
He was talking to another TSA officer and joking about the weather or something. On the other side of the detector frame he handed me back the tray having never looked into it. I pocketed my knife and got on my flight to Denver.
Wow did I feel secure.
That is an absolutely true story.
I should add that this was the same weekend that some nut shot up the El Al ticket booth at the same airport.
 
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That, and to make us think that the government is keeping us safe from terrorism.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

That is why it is best that we are individually responsible for our own security.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I once went through LAX security with a pocket knife.
Before I went through the metal detector I put my car keys, some change and the knife, that I forgot I had, in the little tray the TSA guy handed me.
He was talking to another TSA officer and joking about the weather or something. On the other side of the detector frame he handed me back the tray having never looked into it. I pocketed my knife and got on my flight to Denver.
Wow did I feel secure.
That is an absolutely true story.
I should add that this was the same weekend that some nut shot up the El Al ticket booth at the same airport.

The other scary thing about that story is the idea that a passenger can hijack an airliner with a pocket knife.

Before people got paranoid, which is to say, before 9/11, I carried a pocket knife in my front left pocket always. It was just something I had, and I knew it was there any time I needed to open a package or clean my fingernails. I started carrying it at the ripe old age of 10 or so, carried it to school, on airplanes, everywhere, and there was never a problem with it.

Now, it's a big deal to have a pocket knife. It should't be.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I once went through LAX security with a pocket knife.
Before I went through the metal detector I put my car keys, some change and the knife, that I forgot I had, in the little tray the TSA guy handed me.
He was talking to another TSA officer and joking about the weather or something. On the other side of the detector frame he handed me back the tray having never looked into it. I pocketed my knife and got on my flight to Denver.
Wow did I feel secure.
That is an absolutely true story.
I should add that this was the same weekend that some nut shot up the El Al ticket booth at the same airport.

I wonder what happened to the guy who shot up the El Al booth. Those guys are known for getting even really fast. A guy I know very well had a criminal case that involved US-Israeli cooperation. He flew to Tel Aviv several times. He said the security was awesome without being bothersome. He had all sorts of clearance and credentials. The night before he left TA on an El Al flight, two security agents asked to meet him in his hotel room. They asked him all sorts of innocuous questions, he being a trained professional realized how good these agents were. and even though he was basically there as a top US law enforcement operative, they still interviewed him. No wonder people don't hijack their planes
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

The other scary thing about that story is the idea that a passenger can hijack an airliner with a pocket knife.

Before people got paranoid, which is to say, before 9/11, I carried a pocket knife in my front left pocket always. It was just something I had, and I knew it was there any time I needed to open a package or clean my fingernails. I started carrying it at the ripe old age of 10 or so, carried it to school, on airplanes, everywhere, and there was never a problem with it.

Now, it's a big deal to have a pocket knife. It should't be.

when I was a HS kid I spent some summers at a ranch type camp in Wyoming. we'd fly to Denver and then take a charter flight to Jackson Hole. I always had a "buck hunter" folder on my belt at that camp. well on my way home i of course got onto the charter flight without any issue but when I tried to board the delta flight home I told the ticketing agent. She just laughed and said don't worry kid, its not like you are gonna hijack a plane with a pocket knife

in 1980 I was going to the Olympic trials, My Perazzi Mirage was in a small case. I was concerned about checking the gun and wanted to insure it for what it was worth (about 4K at the time) I was 21. The pilot was nearby and he asked me who I was. I showed him my US Olympic training center credentials and he told the person in charge he'd put the shotgun up in his cabin and give it to me when I got off the plane. He told the security people he was a shooter and he knew my name (which was BS but he winked at me) He did and when I got off the plane he handed me the case said good luck son-make the team.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Turns out to be an off-duty TSA agent that walked into the terminal in camouflage gear and began targetting other TSA agents.

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.

that's just plain sick.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.
You cannot be serious.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

It's very sad our society has come down to this where we have incidents like this almost yearly or multi-yearly. I watched most of this event unfold on the TV and even got some great screen shots off the live feed. Here's one I took of them treating a patient on the yellow triage mat.

tumblr_mvlhg09VcM1rfp4qyo1_500.png
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.

Really? REALLY? You're take on this is such that MURDERING A HUMAN is okay because you dislike the organization?

I can't....words can't even describe.....
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Really? REALLY? You're take on this is such that MURDERING A HUMAN is okay because you dislike the organization?

I can't....words can't even describe.....

You are surprised? I make jokes about the TSA but that guy was probably some kid's father, some lady's husband. Its sad.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.

just another joe trading time for money
is there some other aspect of his life, some history, which causes him to be other than a victim
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

No big deal in the land of the gun. About the best you Americans can expect now is that it's not your children who are getting blown away by gungoons while in their schools!

Arm everybody over the age of 5 and make it mandatory that they are packing at all times. It's certain it will reduce the number of shootings! The NRA says so!
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Killing a TSA officer is almost as horrific as stepping on a cockroach.

<< Note to self: not all blaberids are cockroaches; some blaberidae are actually bipeds. >>
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I wonder what happened to the guy who shot up the El Al booth. Those guys are known for getting even really fast. A guy I know very well had a criminal case that involved US-Israeli cooperation. He flew to Tel Aviv several times. He said the security was awesome without being bothersome. He had all sorts of clearance and credentials. The night before he left TA on an El Al flight, two security agents asked to meet him in his hotel room. They asked him all sorts of innocuous questions, he being a trained professional realized how good these agents were. and even though he was basically there as a top US law enforcement operative, they still interviewed him. No wonder people don't hijack their planes
Here is the story from Wikipedia:
On Thursday, July 4, 2002 at around 11:30 am, a lone gunman approached the El Al ticket counter at the Los Angeles International Airport, pulled out two pistols and started shooting at the 90 passengers standing in the line. Initially, the assailant killed 25-year-old Customer Service Agent Victoria Hen, who was standing behind the counter. Later, the assailant opened fire at the passengers as they huddled nearby and killed 46-year-old passenger Yaakov Aminov. In addition, he injured four other bystanders.
After the gunman fired 10 bullets at the crowd, one of El Al's security guards, who was unarmed, managed to knock him down. Meanwhile, El Al's security officer, Chaim Sapir, ran to the scene but was stabbed by the assailant with a fighting knife. Despite this, Sapir managed to draw his pistol and kill the gunman

To answer your question, he was dead in seconds. I didn't realize it was so long ago but as I recall the shooting took place on a Thursday and I was allowed to fly from LAX to Denver with a knife in my pocket on that Saturday.
The incident really put the TSA on their toes huh?
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Here is the story from Wikipedia:


To answer your question, he was dead in seconds. I didn't realize it was so long ago but as I recall the shooting took place on a Thursday and I was allowed to fly from LAX to Denver with a knife in my pocket on that Saturday.
The incident really put the TSA on their toes huh?
Was the TSA even really around in 2002? it gets a bit blurry that far back, but I thought they were still being formed...
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Was the TSA even really around in 2002? it gets a bit blurry that far back, but I thought they were still being formed...

They we're formed in 2001 in response to 9/11. It was loosely organized.

That's how my father got in, a navy vet worth 20 years in the service, without a degree, or any usable skill off an air craft carrier.

Now they all require degrees..but luckily he's now management.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I only did a search for "shia" in the thread and didn't find it, but the shooters surname make him likely Shia Muslim...

I will read the thread when I have more time, but it does look like it could be another religious based attack.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

I think the word "bear " and the word "carry" are similar enough in definition to be construed as having the same meaning. Even by the SCOTUS.

If that was true, than there would be no state where people couldn't openly carry firearms. That's not the case, therefore that's not an official reading of the Constitution.

The hypothetical scenario that has been projected here was that the LAX shooter would have been "dropped" before he got off a shot if everyone at the airport was carrying a gun. I am exploring that contention to see if that is a realistic possibility. I am expanding that thought to see if this train of thinking could be applied to anywhere.
What do you think? If everyone at LAX was carrying ( bearing ) a gun ...could this shooting of the TSA officers have been prevented?

Hell, I think more people would be shooting at the TSA if they had guns. It's one of the reason I hardly ever fly. If I wanted to be groped, I'd join the Catholic Church.
 
Re: Shots Fired At LAX; Injuries Confirmed.....

Was the TSA even really around in 2002? it gets a bit blurry that far back, but I thought they were still being formed...
I looked it up ... At the time of this incident they had been around for nine months. At that time they were still under the Department of Transportation, not the Department of Homeland Security. Still less than a year since 9/11 and two days after a shoot out at that airport ...you would think they would be a little more diligent about checking passengers for weapons.
 
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