Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89:106]

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Unitedwestand13 said:

maybe because the topic of the veitnam war is too emotionally charged for some people to actually discuss the consequences of leaving. i think most people just wanted to get out of there.

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Most of the leftists, certainly.

Keep in mind that the leftists thought well of Mao and every Soviet leader while castigating Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, two outstanding American Presidents. They demonized their own country and claimed America as the bad guys of the world. Many still believe that, Hence Bill Ayers Barrack Obama, the "Apology Tours" and Michelle Obama saying that electing her husband was the first time she could be proud of her country.

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

Let's see, a CON dodge from answering the topic at hand and trying to deflect from the crap that didn't fly...imagine that... :roll:

The idea of a limited federal government was put forth by the soon to be extinct Federalists. Most of the writings cited were never ratified by the States, just drug out by a few from time to time to be bleated from a soapbox.

fact is 'limited federal government' failed on many levels from law enforcement to banking, from national defense to monopolies. What made sense for an agrarian tiny nation clinging to a seacoast makes little sense for the last surviving superpower transitioning from manufacture to service economy.

It is amazing to me that CONs embrace progress in soooo many facets of their life but cling to government concepts of a patriarchal, agrarian, pre-industrial 18th century society... :doh

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I suggest you revisit your reading list. The Federalist Papers (to which I assume you refer) were critical in shaping the debates that led to ratification of the Constitution. The split between Federalists and Democratic Republicans was not really visible until Jefferson defeated Adams. The most famous Federalist, Alexander Hamilton, argued strongly for robust national defense and banking. It was the anti-Federalists, the Democratic Republicans under Jefferson, who idolized the agrarian model.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

1. Opinions
   
   The sin of omission in Obamacare
   
   The problem of Obama's selling of his health-care law.
   Kathleen Parker, The Washington Post NOV 5
2. To sum up, the American people were duped; the administration did not misspeak, as the New York Times editorialized. The administration knowingly misled with a false promise and a deliberate omission. Worse, it did so for your own good because you might be confused by the truth. Call it what you will. eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

1. Opinions
   
   The sin of omission in Obamacare
   
   The problem of Obama's selling of his health-care law.
   Kathleen Parker, The Washington Post NOV 5
2. To sum up, the American people were duped; the administration did not misspeak, as the New York Times editorialized. The administration knowingly misled with a false promise and a deliberate omission. Worse, it did so for your own good because you might be confused by the truth. Call it what you will. eace

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While I appreciate the administration's concern that we might somehow be "confused by the truth," I confess that I find it more confusing to listen to the explanations being given now about something I wasn't confused about before, especially since it was perfectly clear what was being said originally. Period. :mrgreen:

Good evening, Jack. :2wave:

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

polgara said:

While I appreciate the administration's concern that we might somehow be "confused by the truth," I confess that I find it more confusing to listen to the explanations being given now about something I wasn't confused about before, especially since it was perfectly clear what was being said originally. Period. :mrgreen:

Good evening, Jack. :2wave:

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Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:

Ms. Parker is one of my favorite columnists.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Unitedwestand13 said:

at what cost?

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Whatever it took.........we lost 58,000 men in Nam for nothing and we could have won there easily if LBJ and McNamara had let us.

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

Let's see, a CON dodge from answering the topic at hand and trying to deflect from the crap that didn't fly...imagine that... :roll:

The idea of a limited federal government was put forth by the soon to be extinct Federalists. Most of the writings cited were never ratified by the States, just drug out by a few from time to time to be bleated from a soapbox.

fact is 'limited federal government' failed on many levels from law enforcement to banking, from national defense to monopolies. What made sense for an agrarian tiny nation clinging to a seacoast makes little sense for the last surviving superpower transitioning from manufacture to service economy.

It is amazing to me that CONs embrace progress in soooo many facets of their life but cling to government concepts of a patriarchal, agrarian, pre-industrial 18th century society... :doh

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So, you're a statist. One that needs an education tutorial on the founding and constitution I see.

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Unitedwestand13 said:

at what cost?

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Do you know how war works?

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

I suggest you revisit your reading list. The Federalist Papers (to which I assume you refer) were critical in shaping the debates that led to ratification of the Constitution. The split between Federalists and Democratic Republicans was not really visible until Jefferson defeated Adams. The most famous Federalist, Alexander Hamilton, argued strongly for robust national defense and banking. It was the anti-Federalists, the Democratic Republicans under Jefferson, who idolized the agrarian model.eace

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I suggest you look up the word- debate. The Federalist Papers was ONE part of the debate and last I checked they were never ratified by the States. eace

One key bit of ideology brought to us by the Federalists was the concept of implied powers by Alexander Hamilton (not a lot of TPs should cheer that as it is what fosters that dreaded government over reach they rail against) James Madison, many neo-federalists of today love quoting his work, fought against Alexander Hamilton's Federalist drive for a strong central government. Hamilton, as Sec of the Treasury used his Treasury agents to network a political party together throughout the states. (sounds like the TP rant about the IRS of today)

What took the Federalists down wasn't a belief in a strong national defense but on the wrong side of foreign policy, not unlike the Republicans just before WWII, but in reverse. The Alien and Sedition Act was a huge nail in the Federalist coffin, (many TPs rail against the current Patriot Act/NSA wiretaps/warrantless crap) The Hamilton wing of the Federalists had a major meltdown when their President, Adams, defused the Quasi war with France and pulled the rug out from under a major build-up of the military. (sounds like the TP/GOP split today over national policy- internal rather than external this time)

I didn't say they 'idolized' the agrarian model, the agrarian model was the backbone of the society back in the day. There is a difference. Industrialization and our nation's climb to world power status came later.

The much enshrined Federalist Party crashed in 1816, with a tattered residue lasting a bit longer, will be interesting to see if the TPs can last longer. (or be quoted so often for so long without any real deep understanding of what they really stood for and who they were financed by)

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

I suggest you look up the word- debate. The Federalist Papers was ONE part of the debate and last I checked they were never ratified by the States. eace

One key bit of ideology brought to us by the Federalists was the concept of implied powers by Alexander Hamilton (not a lot of TPs should cheer that as it is what fosters that dreaded government over reach they rail against) James Madison, many neo-federalists of today love quoting his work, fought against Alexander Hamilton's Federalist drive for a strong central government. Hamilton, as Sec of the Treasury used his Treasury agents to network a political party together throughout the states. (sounds like the TP rant about the IRS of today)

What took the Federalists down wasn't a belief in a strong national defense but on the wrong side of foreign policy, not unlike the Republicans just before WWII, but in reverse. The Alien and Sedition Act was a huge nail in the Federalist coffin, (many TPs rail against the current Patriot Act/NSA wiretaps/warrantless crap) The Hamilton wing of the Federalists had a major meltdown when their President, Adams, defused the Quasi war with France and pulled the rug out from under a major build-up of the military. (sounds like the TP/GOP split today over national policy- internal rather than external this time)

I didn't say they 'idolized' the agrarian model, the agrarian model was the backbone of the society back in the day. There is a difference. Industrialization and our nation's climb to world power status came later.

The much enshrined Federalist Party crashed in 1816, with a tattered residue lasting a bit longer, will be interesting to see if the TPs can last longer. (or be quoted so often for so long without any real deep understanding of what they really stood for and who they were financed by)

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You seem to have made my point without any work required from me. The TPers are Jeffersonians, not Federalists. Thank you.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

You seem to have made my point without any work required from me. The TPers are Jeffersonians, not Federalists. Thank you.eace

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Nice CON dodge but the TPs quote the Federalist Papers like some do the Bible, select passages from 'The Papers' and none from actual governance. Course you'd have to stick with Jefferson's theory instead of what he actually did in office as he too strayed from ideological purity... eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

Nice CON dodge but the TPs quote the Federalist Papers like some do the Bible, select passages from 'The Papers' and none from actual governance. Course you'd have to stick with Jefferson's theory instead of what he actually did in office as he too strayed from ideological purity... eace

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Add your misidentification of my personal politics to your list of errors. I personally don't recall any TP statement based on the Federalist Papers, but I don't pay that much attention to such things. Nonetheless, fact is that the Federalists had a strong-government, almost imperial vision.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

Add your misidentification of my personal politics to your list of errors. I personally don't recall any TP statement based on the Federalist Papers, but I don't pay that much attention to such things. Nonetheless, fact is that the Federalists had a strong-government, almost imperial vision.eace

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You quack and you get plucked like a duck... pretty simple. Oh there was a CON in here who asked me those questions, after questioning my service. what you can or can't personally recall isn't the issue as convenience oft times enters that equation. The TPs are quite fond of citing the Federalist Papers and the concept of limited government as entwined concepts.

that you have never seen that doesn't enter this... nice try at peeling the onion BTW... eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

You quack and you get plucked like a duck... pretty simple. Oh there was a CON in here who asked me those questions, after questioning my service. what you can or can't personally recall isn't the issue as convenience oft times enters that equation. The TPs are quite fond of citing the Federalist Papers and the concept of limited government as entwined concepts.

that you have never seen that doesn't enter this... nice try at peeling the onion BTW... eace

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Sorry, but I can't make any sense of that post.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

Sorry, but I can't make any sense of that post.eace

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No need to be sorry, I understand admitting to something is confusing to some... quack on McDuck, quack on! :2wave:

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

No need to be sorry, I understand admitting to something is confusing to some... quack on McDuck, quack on! :2wave:

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It is unclear what I'm supposed to admit to, but I take solace in the fact that you apparently don't know either.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

Jack Hays said:

It is unclear what I'm supposed to admit to, but I take solace in the fact that you apparently don't know either.eace

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take solace where ever you can, I'm sure you do a lot, bet you are pretty good at it. I was saying the TPs have used the Founding Fathers/federalist papers/ limited government mish mash for years with little if any understanding on the totality of the Federalist true history, and how briefly their candle did shine.

Quack on.... eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

take solace where ever you can, I'm sure you do a lot, bet you are pretty good at it. I was saying the TPs have used the Founding Fathers/federalist papers/ limited government mish mash for years with little if any understanding on the totality of the Federalist true history, and how briefly their candle did shine.

Quack on.... eace

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And I agree with all that, except I don't think their candle is quite done.eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

take solace where ever you can, I'm sure you do a lot, bet you are pretty good at it.

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This is why "progressives" in general suck at simple conversation, and debate. When they find themselves in over their heads (an often seen predicament), they resort to name calling, cheap shots, and general disrespectful attack.

I was saying the TPs have used the Founding Fathers/federalist papers/ limited government mish mash for years with little if any understanding on the totality of the Federalist true history, and how briefly their candle did shine.

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I think it is proper to look to intent before just spouting nonsense like progressives do so often. Words have meaning, and to not know the intent is how we get out of context arguments like the use of "General Welfare" being misused to base law on, when in the reality of fact, and context, those words in the constitution were only pointing to Article 1 Section 8 as a means of limiting the power of the Federal Government, in the founders way of hopefully keeping us from becoming a totalitarian authoritarian form of government...When Ben Franklin was asked what kind of government we had, and his answer was "a representative republic, as long as you can keep it", he didn't say, a republic as long as you do what we tell you to do.

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

j-mac said:

This is why "progressives" in general suck at simple conversation, and debate. When they find themselves in over their heads (an often seen predicament), they resort to name calling, cheap shots, and general disrespectful attack. I think it is proper to look to intent before just spouting nonsense like progressives do so often. Words have meaning, and to not know the intent is how we get out of context arguments like the use of "General Welfare" being misused to base law on, when in the reality of fact, and context, those words in the constitution were only pointing to Article 1 Section 8 as a means of limiting the power of the Federal Government, in the founders way of hopefully keeping us from becoming a totalitarian authoritarian form of government...When Ben Franklin was asked what kind of government we had, and his answer was "a representative republic, as long as you can keep it", he didn't say, a republic as long as you do what we tell you to do.

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The first part- you seem intent on seeing injury where the person I was typing to did not. You are imposing yourself into something that is none of your business- something the TPs claim to hate unless it is themselves doing it- lighten up Francis... :roll:

Words do have meaning as do actions which is why the Libertarians struggle so. What 'works' in the lecture hall and Op-Ed pieces fall to pieces in the real world. But TPs and other radical CONs have a way of over hyping events... It is a marvel of CON 'logic' that President Obama is both a king and tyrant BUT also weak and unable to stand up...

fact is if the TPs and CONs actually looked into the people they claim to embrace they wouldn't do so. I do understand cherry picking the Constitution and Federalist Papers, then using a very CON interpretation of what the Founders 'really' meant, but as with the Federalist Papers- it is one side of the debate, not the final word.

Yes words have meaning but for most CONs the meaning is to stir the base anyway they can, tyrant, king and other rot... eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

The first part- you seem intent on seeing injury where the person I was typing to did not. You are imposing yourself into something that is none of your business- something the TPs claim to hate unless it is themselves doing it- lighten up Francis... :roll:

Words do have meaning as do actions which is why the Libertarians struggle so. What 'works' in the lecture hall and Op-Ed pieces fall to pieces in the real world. But TPs and other radical CONs have a way of over hyping events... It is a marvel of CON 'logic' that President Obama is both a king and tyrant BUT also weak and unable to stand up...

fact is if the TPs and CONs actually looked into the people they claim to embrace they wouldn't do so. I do understand cherry picking the Constitution and Federalist Papers, then using a very CON interpretation of what the Founders 'really' meant, but as with the Federalist Papers- it is one side of the debate, not the final word.

Yes words have meaning but for most CONs the meaning is to stir the base anyway they can, tyrant, king and other rot... eace

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"Tyrant, King, or other rot" I leave to progressives, that is their bag....But nice bit of projection you have going on there. eace

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

j-mac said:

"Tyrant, King, or other rot" I leave to progressives, that is their bag....But nice bit of projection you have going on there. eace

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The CON game continues... it is the TPs and CONs who carry on with king, tyrant, and other ignorant crap... you can't swing a dead cat in here without hitting a CON ranting about King Obama, or Tyrant Obama...

Nice bit of CON denial and deflection you have going there... :lol:

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

notquiteright said:

The CON game continues...

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From progressives? Yes I agree theirs is a 'con game'....

Re: Report: Obamacare got six enrollees on Day 1 [W:89]

My, a whole six. Maybe people just don't want gubberment mucking around in their health care....