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Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

And that statement was made to further the argument that abortion is not murder. It is unsurprising that you choose to focus on a petty detail while ignoring the greater issue

I'm not ignoring the issue. Being 1) I directly addressed the argument 2) pointed out how it's use towards abortion is totally debatable


Lobotomies are not inhumane or barbarous.

I really see no point in arguing with you about it, so we will just agree to disagree
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

The devil couldn't have said it any better.

Adults aren't supposed to cling to children's stories.

...said the devil's operative while waving a dead fetus in the air.

Moderator's Warning:
This ends now. It is off-topic and flame baiting. So, folks, further off-topic, personal or flamey baiting comments will cause points and/or swift kick out of the thread.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

How do you know that you cannot take care of the child and there is the option of adoption. How about not having sex in the first place?


Sex is awesome...why should women not be allowed to choose when and where they have it? That is a moral decision that is different for every person, man or woman. And since she has several responsible options *if* she gets pregnant, keep, adopt, abortion....who are you to suggest she not have sex?
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

What's wrong with putting the baby up for adoption?

If a woman chooses not to risk her life or long-term health with pregnancy, she does not have to.

And those are very real risks to any pregnancy.

My friend's wife, having their 2nd kid....had no known issues leading up to labor. She died in childbirth, baby shortly thereafter. It may be anecdotal, but statistically it is very real.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

I don't want to forbid a woman from making her own decision, but I do want to allow communities who find this practice to be an abomination the ability to have it as far removed from their society as those who agree with them can allow.

Since you want to read into my arguments, I'll help you by letting you know the implication here is that those who do want to allow this in their commmunity also have a right to do so, but in no way do they have a right to thrust upon another individual or community something which conflicts with their conscience. Bottom line is that this like all social issues needs to be dealt with at the lowest levels of government,(i.e. local, municipal, county)

.

This is a fascinating point of view that I have never seen applied to abortion. But it is as unConstitutional and discriminatory as things like not allowing blacks to live in your community, gays not to live in your community, or not to allow bi-racial or gay marriages in a community...because (very sadly) there are people that feel those things are abominations as well.

You do not have a 'right' not to be offended. Such things do not even AFFECT you. And they are personal and are none of your business (which is what Roe vs Wade is based on). Certainly no place for the govt to interfere (I believe the govt shouldnt be involved in marriage, period).

Not to mention that there are also many people in the community or society that DO NOT feel as you do, we are not a homogeneous society.

So again...you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but not allowed to force them on others. You didnt explicitly say you would vote for such law but it's my impression that you would. I apologize if I'm incorrect.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

You are attempting to bring back the constitutional argument which I will slap down once again by illustrating that slavery was once a constitutionally protected institution which is now no more.



Life is life. But look here, you just presented the same reasoning you accused others of using as a common theme who are in opposition to your beliefs which I illustrated the correction to above. ha!

..

We recognized that blacks were EQUAL to white people and thus had EQUAL rights and slavery was struck down because it was the right thing to do.

As pointed out already, a fetus does NOT have equal rights with the woman. It is not even born yet and may never reach term. I will post this example again:

--even most pro-life people recognize the right of the mother to terminate a pregnancy if her own life is in danger or in the cases or rape or incest (yes, I realize that you personally do not).

--there are no laws in our society that allow an individual to kill another (born) person to save their own life or to save themselves from mental anguish.

Obviously, it's recognized that the unborn do NOT have equal rights.

And re: save their own life, it's not about self-defense. That is about someone with *intent* trying to take your life (infringe on your right to life). It's more like you cannot kill someone to take their liver to save your own life.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Should we make it illegal for men to spill their seed solo? Isn't that the destruction of life? The second sperm inseminates an egg it is suddenly a baby? ... but not before?

From that moment until 9 months later is a spectrum. Halting the process in the early stages is not murdering a baby.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Re: abortion [being] for selfish reasons. Aside from an unplanned pregnancy, there is no reason people have kids that is not selfish. No one has kids to 'help populate society.'

Yes, yes, giving is a selfish endeavor too, I've read all about the revaluations of values, and understood Nietzsche allot more thoroughly than you I'm afraid...

Giving? What giving? Giving life? Any organism can reproduce.

No, you did not actually respond to the statement. My statement was straight forward and doesnt need the philosophical support of Nietzche. I cannot think of any reasons why people choose to have kids that is not selfish, so claiming that abortion is 'selfish' isnt a rebuttal to the discussion.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

OK, tell 'ya what. I will wear the avatar for a month. If somehow, SCOTUS does overturn the law, the you will wear the avatar of my choosing for 2 months. Deal?

Deal with on small requirement. You or I will have to post a minimum of 5 post a day wearing the new avatar.
 
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Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional


Allright, dammit. Gimme the damn link to it in a PM. LOL.

EDIT: File too large. Shrink the pic to the proper size for me, and send me a link to the shrunken image.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

If a woman chooses not to risk her life or long-term health with pregnancy, she does not have to.

And those are very real risks to any pregnancy.

My friend's wife, having their 2nd kid....had no known issues leading up to labor. She died in childbirth, baby shortly thereafter. It may be anecdotal, but statistically it is very real.

Of course this is very sad and no one knew it was coming. Putting the baby up for adoption was not mentioned as one of the options available in the post I responded to and yet many women exercise that option every day.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Sex is awesome...why should women not be allowed to choose when and where they have it? That is a moral decision that is different for every person, man or woman. And since she has several responsible options *if* she gets pregnant, keep, adopt, abortion....who are you to suggest she not have sex?

With any action comes good or bad consequences except in the liberal world where there are never bad consequences for any action. Never said a thing about sex being bad just that there are consequences good or bad, accept them.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Giving? What giving? Giving life? Any organism can reproduce.

No, you did not actually respond to the statement. My statement was straight forward and doesnt need the philosophical support of Nietzche. I cannot think of any reasons why people choose to have kids that is not selfish, so claiming that abortion is 'selfish' isnt a rebuttal to the discussion.

Yes, I actually did. You're trying to create a revaluation. You're statement is skewed and it couldn't have the support of Nietzsche, nevermind what it needs. Determining having kids is selfish, following that strain of logic, anything and everything you do can be considered selfish, it is absurd to even go down that path. It is a perfectly reasonable rebuttal to a completely absurd line of reasoning.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

We recognized that blacks were EQUAL to white people and thus had EQUAL rights and slavery was struck down because it was the right thing to do.

As pointed out already, a fetus does NOT have equal rights with the woman. It is not even born yet and may never reach term. I will post this example again:

--even most pro-life people recognize the right of the mother to terminate a pregnancy if her own life is in danger or in the cases or rape or incest (yes, I realize that you personally do not).

--there are no laws in our society that allow an individual to kill another (born) person to save their own life or to save themselves from mental anguish.

Obviously, it's recognized that the unborn do NOT have equal rights.

And re: save their own life, it's not about self-defense. That is about someone with *intent* trying to take your life (infringe on your right to life). It's more like you cannot kill someone to take their liver to save your own life.

Right or wrong is not a matter of popular opinion. That's relativistic twaddle.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Right or wrong is not a matter of popular opinion. That's relativistic twaddle.

Right or wrong is not a legal issue - something the Moral Fascists who want to ban abortion are unable to understand
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Interesting discussion going on here...

Personally, I think that abortion is wrong. But I also think denying women the right to choose to have or not have an abortion is wrong.

So I'm stuck. In the middle. Agreeing with no one.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

This is a fascinating point of view that I have never seen applied to abortion. But it is as unConstitutional and discriminatory as things like not allowing blacks to live in your community, gays not to live in your community, or not to allow bi-racial or gay marriages in a community...because (very sadly) there are people that feel those things are abominations as well.

You do not have a 'right' not to be offended. Such things do not even AFFECT you. And they are personal and are none of your business (which is what Roe vs Wade is based on). Certainly no place for the govt to interfere (I believe the govt shouldnt be involved in marriage, period).

Not to mention that there are also many people in the community or society that DO NOT feel as you do, we are not a homogeneous society.

So again...you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but not allowed to force them on others. You didnt explicitly say you would vote for such law but it's my impression that you would. I apologize if I'm incorrect.

for one your argument is skewed because, blacks, mixed, gays, et al. are allowed to live, and are protected under the law to do so,that's the argument. Further, in a free society, you've got to allow, so long as all people are equal in the eyes of the government, you must allow discrimination between others as it is a matter of free association.

You do not have a right to offend. Certainly they do. They're a black spot on society. I live in society, no? Correct, so much so that they should be as far removed from my community as my fellow members of the community see fit.

Correct, that is why social issues must be localized. Not one size fits all blanket over the nation.

Correct, as you aren't entitled to set up little death camps where ever you please.

As a Federal law, I believe it is a mistake, as a State law I believe it is a mistake -- either for or against.

The interesting thing here is that for eons counties in certain states have been known to be "Dry". That is, no liquor can be bought or sold within county lines. No one ever seems to be up in arms about this, but yet if you try to use the same principles with abortion, allowing or disallowing something as egregious as this to fall within the county level of government's purview than everyone wants to talk about choice, and it is a great oppression that can't be allowed. (notice I was making a comparative argument over the principles and not abortion v. liquor)

It is a case where you want to have your ideology spread far and wide, not taking into account other people's attitudes, feelings, and beliefs.

So again, you are just as much trying to force your attitude and beliefs on others as you claim that others are doing to you. Which is why this and every other social issue must be localized.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Right or wrong is not a legal issue - something the Moral Fascists who want to ban abortion are unable to understand

No? and where do you believe laws stem from?

Morality.

Agreed upon and codified.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

No? and where do you believe laws stem from?

Morality.

Agreed upon and codified.

It comes from something the Moral Fascists like to forget about - a little thing called the constitution
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

It comes from something the Moral Fascists like to forget about - a little thing called the constitution
Which, in a way, was morality agreed upon and codified.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

And in a way, was selfishness agreed upon and codified.
Some laws are like that.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Some laws are like that.

In a way, all laws are like that.

There are a number of reasons why people might agree to such laws. Why they agree is not the critical thing, though. What is critical is that they agreed

The laws are based on the agreement of those subjected to the law. It is related to the "consent of the governed"
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

It comes from something the Moral Fascists like to forget about - a little thing called the constitution

Ok, and the same, the very same is forgotten by the Immoral Fascists.

My way is the middle way. The way of moderation.

If you don't live by me, in my community, in my county even, what right do you have to allow or disallow anything? You don't. Neither do I where you hang your hat. Therefore (oh, wonderful, therefore!) what you and I find acceptable, that's to be allowed in our community should be left up to each of us and our co-inhabitants respectively and exclusively.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Ok, and the same, the very same is forgotten by the Immoral Fascists.

My way is the middle way. The way of moderation.

If you don't live by me, in my community, in my county even, what right do you have to allow or disallow anything? You don't. Neither do I where you hang your hat. Therefore (oh, wonderful, therefore!) what you and I find acceptable, that's to be allowed in our community should be left up to each of us and our co-inhabitants respectively and exclusively.

Again, it's a little thing called the constitution.
 
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