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Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Debt has continued to increase whether it is a Dem or Rep in charge. Nothing can change that fact. If a Rep gets in the WH for 2016, I'd bet money that they too will INCREASE the debt and you will continue to make excuses. But then I wouldn't expect anything less from a Republican such as yourself or a Dem. Jobs were shedding at record rates under Bush at the end.

I have done my research, it's clear you haven't. You make excuses for YOUR side.


Jobs were indeed being shed at the end but never exceeded the 16 million under Obama in 2010 and continuing high today. People dropping out of the labor force and not counted make Obama's record look better than it was.

I am sorry, you claim to have done research? Tell me where these numbers are wrong?

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS13000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Level
Labor force status: Unemployed
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Years: 2000 to 2012

Unemployed

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2000 5708 5858 5733 5481 5758 5651 5747 5853 5625 5534 5639 5634
2001 6023 6089 6141 6271 6226 6484 6583 7042 7142 7694 8003 8258
2002 8182 8215 8304 8599 8399 8393 8390 8304 8251 8307 8520 8640
2003 8520 8618 8588 8842 8957 9266 9011 8896 8921 8732 8576 8317
2004 8370 8167 8491 8170 8212 8286 8136 7990 7927 8061 7932 7934
2005 7784 7980 7737 7672 7651 7524 7406 7345 7553 7453 7566 7279
2006 7059 7185 7075 7122 6977 6998 7154 7097 6853 6728 6883 6784
2007 7085 6898 6725 6845 6765 6966 7113 7096 7200 7273 7284 7696
2008 7678 7491 7816 7631 8395 8578 8950 9450 9501 10083 10544 11299
2009 12049 12860 13389 13796 14505 14727 14646 14861 15012 15421 15227 15124
2010 14953 15039 15128 15221 14876 14517 14609 14735 14574 14636 15104 14393
2011 13919 13751 13628 13792 13892 14024 13908 13920 13897 13759 13323 13097
2012 12748 12806 12686 12518 12695 12701 12745 12483 12082 12248 12042 12206
2013 12332 12032 11742 11659 11760 11777 11514 11316 11255 11272

Discouraged workers

2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037 967 1096 945
2012 1059 1006 865 968 830 821 852 844 802 813 979 1068
2013 804 885 803 835 780 1027 988 866 852 815

Unemployed + Discouraged

2008 8145 7887 8217 8043 8795 8998 9411 9831 9968 10567 11152 11941
2009 12783 13591 14074 14536 15297 15520 15442 15619 15718 16229 16088 16053
2010 16018 16243 16122 16418 15959 15724 15794 15845 15783 15855 16386 15711
2011 14912 14771 14549 14781 14714 15006 15027 14897 14934 14726 14419 14042
2012 13807 13812 13551 13486 13525 13522 13597 13327 12884 13061 13021 13274
2013 13136 12917 12545 12577 12540 12804 12502 12182 12107 12087 0 0

Labor Force 2009 154185 154424 154100 154453 154805 154754 154457 154362 153940 154022 153795 153172
Labor Force 2011 153250 153302 153392 153420 153700 153409 153358 153674 154004 154057 153937 153887
Labor Force 2012 154395 154871 154707 154365 155007 155163 155013 154645 155053 155641 155319 155511
Labor Force 2013 155654 155524 155028 155238 155658 155835 155798 155486 155559 154839

UE 2009 w/o DW 7.81% 8.33% 8.69% 8.93% 9.37% 9.52% 9.48% 9.63% 9.75% 10.01% 9.90% 9.87%
UE 2010 w/o DW 9.70% 9.74% 9.82% 9.85% 9.61% 9.38% 9.46% 9.55% 9.47% 9.50% 9.82% 9.40%
UE 2011 w/o DW-U-3 9.08% 8.97% 8.88% 8.99% 9.04% 9.14% 9.07% 9.06% 9.02% 8.93% 8.65% 8.51%
UE 2012 w/o DW 8.26% 8.27% 8.20% 8.11% 8.19% 8.19% 8.22% 8.07% 7.79% 7.87% 7.75% 7.85%
UE 2013 w/o DW 7.92% 7.74% 7.57% 7.51% 7.56% 7.56% 7.39% 7.28% 7.24% 7.28% #DIV/0! #DIV/0!

2009 U-3 With DW 8.29% 8.80% 9.13% 9.41% 9.88% 10.03% 10.00% 10.12% 10.21% 10.54% 10.46% 10.48%
2010 U-3 With DW 10.45% 10.60% 10.51% 10.70% 10.38% 10.25% 10.30% 10.31% 10.25% 10.29% 10.64% 10.21%
UE 2011 with DW 9.73% 9.64% 9.48% 9.63% 9.57% 9.78% 9.80% 9.69% 9.70% 9.56% 9.37% 9.12%
UE 2012 with DW 8.94% 8.92% 8.76% 8.74% 8.73% 8.71% 8.77% 8.62% 8.31% 8.39% 8.38% 8.54%
UE 2013 with DW 8.44% 8.31% 8.09% 8.10% 8.06% 8.22% 8.02% 7.83% 7.78% 7.81% #DIV/0! #DIV/0!
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Yep, your opinion noted, guess personal responsibility is out of the question in your world as well. A fetus is a living being that you have a problem giving the same opportunity your mother gave you.

Abortion is a very responsible option. It keeps *other people* such as taxpayers for having to take responsibility. IMO it is irresponsible to have kids you cant support...and we see that every day....it comes up in every "Walmart doesnt pay a living wage" or "raise the minimum wage" thread I ever saw.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.) no they are both a live and both have life in regards to living.
now in regards to subjective things like a family member saying "you have no life" then yes
2.) agreed
3.) not sure what you are quite saying here, i think we are just misunderstanding eachother but in general not true, i can easily kill you in self defense, ill have to prove thats what it was but there are laws protecting me in that regard. You can also kill in protection of bodily harm including rape in many areas
4.) this i agree with, they are not.
I do however think they should be BUT the reality is, thats factually impossible due to where the ZEF resides and how it comes to term.
5.) I agree in the majority of cases until viability then its more tricky

Your 'numbers' are noted. For the most part all are supported here in my posts, agree or not.

Re: 3) for clarification, I am aware of no laws where we can terminate another (born) individual to save someone else's life (as in when the mother's life is endangered) or save them from mental anguish (rape or incest). Self-defense against lethal force or gross bodily harm is action taken against someone directly threatening you, directly infringing on our right to life. A fetus can be the cause of the danger to the mother but the mother can also opt for chemotherapy or drugs to save her own life that will end the life of the fetus (and the fetus is not the cause of the disease, for ex.) And I'm not aware of any cases where you can kill someone to prevent another from mental anguish.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.)So, "your" god is fine with your opinion? interesting that you know what "your" god feels about the issue.
2.) "My" God believes in life as well as personal responsibility thus giving us free will and then holding us responsible for the choices we make.
3.) I have given my opinion and it will always be for life. I do not support the killing of a human fetus who has done nothing to deserve that verdict.
4.) Abortion is legal in this country and seems to be an epidemic in recent years showing how cheap life is and how there are no consequences for that choice although I know that sometime in the future that choice will require reconciliation
5.) Yes, much of what I post is opinion, but it is opinion based upon my belief that there is right and wrong as well as consequences for all decisions made.
6.) Millions of human fetuses are never given that right to have an opinion or to make an impact on society.
7.) You are here because your Mom chose life, think about it

1.) yes i do know what my god is fine with :shrug:
2.) thats good but completely meaningless to this discussion
3.) and your opinion is fine by me you are free to have it in this country and thats awesome but you are not for life you are for the life of the ZEF not the the woman hers doesn't count
4.) more meaningless opinion when we are talking law and rights.

what about the people that think you are cheapening life? they dont count, only your opinion counts?

5.) and thats awesome, what you should do is thank your god you live in a place where its possible to have those beliefs and share them. Seems you dont like that though, is that true?
6.) this is true and that right cant be given to them without violating the rights of others so this is why IMO it should be something in the middle.

And its totally fine if you disagree just dont claim you support rights or "life" because thats factually not true when you say it in blanket form.

7.) lol yes i am :shrug: completely meaningless and has zero impact to anything. Theres nothing to think about, she was and is pro-choice yet im still here, imagine that.

So simply question do you want the law changed to reflect your views or are you fine with something in the middle. Personally RvW doesnt motivate me to do much fighting but im not a fan. I wish the limit was 21 weeks (viability) and that this was national and everything after that was cases by case (high risk of life, deformities, risk of still born things of that nature) and i wish the ZEF had some legislated rights at 21 weeks. Since its impossible to be equal this is about as close as we can get.

What do you want?
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Because a woman has a legal right doesn't make that a moral right and yes there is such a thing as right and wrong in the real world. Being legal doesn't change the fact that women killing their baby won't have to reconcile that decision in the future. You see in the liberal world there are no consequences for bad decisions but at some time in the future there will be.

.

There are many things that are legal that may not be considered 'moral,' like many forms of lying and cheating. And what makes you think that abortion is not a 'consequence?' Is the assumption that the decision is easy? The procedure pleasant? I liken it to divorce....also considered 'immoral' by some. It is a terrible thing, very difficult to go thru, but it's generally done with the expectation of a better future.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Abortion is a very responsible option. It keeps *other people* such as taxpayers for having to take responsibility. IMO it is irresponsible to have kids you cant support...and we see that every day....it comes up in every "Walmart doesnt pay a living wage" or "raise the minimum wage" thread I ever saw.

Only because that is what liberals want, someone else to take responsibility versus holding those accountable for their actions. There are no consequences for poor choices in today's world and the cheapening of life is being ignored.

Those that claim Wal-Mart doesn't pay a living wage are the same people who have no idea what a living wage is because that wage changes depending on the cost of living and personal choices made. This country is in a mess and freedom to kill the unborn has sent it into free fall.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.)Your 'numbers' are noted. For the most part all are supported here in my posts, agree or not.

Re: 3) for clarification, I am aware of no laws where we can terminate another (born) individual to save someone else's life (as in when the mother's life is endangered) or save them from mental anguish (rape or incest). Self-defense against lethal force or gross bodily harm is action taken against someone directly threatening you, directly infringing on our right to life.

4.) A fetus can be the cause of the danger to the mother but the mother can also opt for chemotherapy or drugs to save her own life that will end the life of the fetus (and the fetus is not the cause of the disease, for ex.)
5.) And I'm not aware of any cases where you can kill someone to prevent another from mental anguish.

1.) not sure what you are calling supported, please explain
3.) but that just a word game those laws do exists and lethal force is legal in rape even if the rape is extra brutal
4.) true
5.) again rape but to be clear im not sure why "mental anguish" is being discussed for abortion debate, its meaningless
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

There are many things that are legal that may not be considered 'moral,' like many forms of lying and cheating. And what makes you think that abortion is not a 'consequence?' Is the assumption that the decision is easy? The procedure pleasant? I liken it to divorce....also considered 'immoral' by some. It is a terrible thing, very difficult to go thru, but it's generally done with the expectation of a better future.

Point taken, don't think it is pleasant, an easy decision, not a consequence but rather it is however the easy way out for some and that decision will have to be reconciled some day. I was always taught that there are consequences for poor choices made and if I got a woman pregnant that is my responsibility as well as hers. I have met people who never accept responsibility for anything and thus killing the unborn isn't a problem for them. It should be and that is the problem today with society, IMO
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

You do if you ask the question: "what about the death penalty". Therein, you have made such a concession. That was a dumb argument, illegitimate and counter-productive; I'm demonstrating such.

No one - not even the most foaming religious fundie nutbag - argues the strawman you are presenting.


Coma-like

It is a relevant argument, but it seems you lost it and so now dont like it. It depends on the grounds on which you build your opinions of abortion and the death penalty. Neither of mine is built on the 'sanctitiy of life.' Many peoples' are.

Please point out the straw man...isnt that something untrue or irrelevant? Ask a pregnant woman how much she thinks about dying in labor.....even one joyfully expecting a baby. And the statistics support her concern.

And if you dont want me to use your terminology, dont include it. I guess to support your argument further, you'll have to be explicit in describing that 'coma-like' state because AFAIK, people in coma's do not register pain. Nor are the conscious of events around them or happening to them. Hence, it seems TO ME that normal term abortions should not even be an issue.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

It is a relevant argument, but it seems you lost it and so now dont like it.

Nonsense. I've very anti death penalty and mildly pro-life (I'm also vegan); however, I have enough grey matter to understand that's not required for "consistency". Your argument is founded in a BS equivelance and it opens you to the personhood argument. Perhaps you cannot understand this, but I've been at this debate for years. Just tryin' to give you a little advice.

And if you dont want me to use your terminology, dont include it. I guess to support your argument further, you'll have to be explicit in describing that 'coma-like' state because AFAIK, people in coma's do not register pain. Nor are the conscious of events around them or happening to them. Hence, it seems TO ME that normal term abortions should not even be an issue.

Look up the science yourself. I don't give a **** if do, I'm just tryin' to inform you and others.


Good day.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.) not sure what you are calling supported, please explain
3.) but that just a word game those laws do exists and lethal force is legal in rape even if the rape is extra brutal
4.) true
5.) again rape but to be clear im not sure why "mental anguish" is being discussed for abortion debate, its meaningless


My statements that you chose to callout were all supported in my earlier posts. You asked no question so if you wanted anything further, go see the posts. That is what that meant.

I didnt dispute when lethal force is legal, I clarified it further. I am a woman and I carry a firearm and I know the laws very well. Rape is considered the commission of a felony AND gross bodily harm in my state.

As for 3) where you did ask a question, I was very clear in answering. Here it is again: most pro-lifers support abortion in cases (besides when the mother's life is in danger) of rape and incest. Why? To save the mother from mental anguish. Her life is not in danger after the fact.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Nonsense. I've very anti death penalty and mildly pro-life (I'm also vegan); however, I have enough grey matter to understand that's not required for "consistency". Your argument is founded in a BS equivelance and it opens you to the personhood argument. Perhaps you cannot understand this, but I've been at this debate for years. Just tryin' to give you a little advice.



Look up the science yourself. I don't give a **** if do, I'm just tryin' to inform you and others.


Good day.


Well that's as good an admission as any then! lol
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.)My statements that you chose to callout were all supported in my earlier posts. You asked no question so if you wanted anything further, go see the posts. That is what that meant.

2.) I didnt dispute when lethal force is legal, I clarified it further. I am a woman and I carry a firearm and I know the laws very well. Rape is considered the commission of a felony AND gross bodily harm in my state.

3) where you did ask a question, I was very clear in answering. Here it is again: most pro-lifers support abortion in cases (besides when the mother's life is in danger) of rape and incest.

4.) Why? To save the mother from mental anguish.

5.) Her life is not in danger after the fact.

1.) no thanks, seems you think i called something out and claimed it was support if you feel that way its your job to support it :shrug:
If i actually did say its not support by facts then its true but since i have no clue what you were referrring its meanignless

2.) ok :shrug:

3.) yes some do support that

4.) yes SOME think that way, some think about the kid, some think its physical torture, some think theres no way she should be forced to risk her life over a rap etc. it varies is my point.

but i would agree those that have that opinion about just mental anguish would seem inconstant with their proclaimed stance

5.) just for accuracy, her life is always endanger, that danger may be very small or very large but its always in danger because of the pregnancy.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.)

5.) just for accuracy, her life is always endanger, that danger may be very small or very large but its always in danger because of the pregnancy.

You like to type I see. Or see your words on the page.

Cuz, as I said ("supported in previous posts") I have said exactly that in several posts in this thread.

You can just agree or 'like' something, rather than reposting my comments.

Or disagree, whatever.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

1.) You like to type I see. Or see your words on the page.

2.)Cuz, as I said ("supported in previous posts") I have said exactly that in several posts in this thread.

You can just agree or 'like' something, rather than reposting my comments.

Or disagree, whatever.

1.) no i prefer not to lol, unless its something i care about or take my time im a horrible typer
2.) ok cant do wither though without explanation :shrug:
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

I admire your consistent beliefs. (no sarcasm)

Do you believe that a woman that has been raped or forced in incest should be forced to bear a child from those acts?

Pregnancy is just a condition....are you suggesting that the act of becoming pregnant is wrong? Deserving of some kind of punishment?

Thank you

Like I said above, this is a tough situation. Do I believe that a woman should bring that pregnancy to term and then set it up for adoption? Yes. If that's what the woman chooses. (meaning, instead of keeping it) Life is still life. Do I understand that this is a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE dilemma that a woman must possibly face? Yes, without reservation.

I could even understand, though not agree with a woman if she chooses to take the path of abortion in this case. It's easy to give definitive black and white answers on a political chat forum, but in real life it is obviously much different. Who is to say, heaven forbid if something horrendous like that happened to my wife, with the end result, that I wouldn't be the one to take her to Planned Parenthood myself? Don't know, I hope I am never put in that situation. I am 100% in the affirmative in what I believe. Life is life and anything -- including my own pain that I would have to endure as a result is no excuse to snuff it out. But would I have the strength? Honestly I don't know. This in no way however denies, undermines, or contradicts what I've said or what I believe.

I refuse to listen to the down playing of the process which brings about the miracle of life. This again is a relativistic term. "Meh, you're just a life source, no biggie..."

In no way am I suggesting it is wrong, to the contrary, I am saying that in many to most cases, the woman is the one to give her consent, with the power of consent comes responsibility. Whenever she gives her consent she is taking a risk in changing her -- as you put -- condition. If she becomes pregnant, this isn't a punishment, this is causality. She knows the risks, she simply ignores them or decides to take her chances.

To use a poor analogy, when you go to a Casino, put your money on the Blackjack table, the dealer deals the cards, and hits a natural 21, he comes to rake, do you sweep your money that you put up to bet into your pocket and run off or do you pay the man? Paying him isn't punishment, it is the cost, the risk of playing the game.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Jobs were indeed being shed at the end but never exceeded the 16 million under Obama in 2010 and continuing high today. People dropping out of the labor force and not counted make Obama's record look better than it was.

I am sorry, you claim to have done research? Tell me where these numbers are wrong?

Moderator's Warning:
The topic is not the debt. The derailing stops now. Stick to discussing the OP. Also there are some fairly heated comments, some personal. Folks need to cool down.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Thank you

Like I said above, this is a tough situation. Do I believe that a woman should bring that pregnancy to term and then set it up for adoption? Yes. If that's what the woman chooses. (meaning, instead of keeping it) Life is still life. Do I understand that this is a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE dilemma that a woman must possibly face? Yes, without reservation.

I could even understand, though not agree with a woman if she chooses to take the path of abortion in this case. It's easy to give definitive black and white answers on a political chat forum, but in real life it is obviously much different. Who is to say, heaven forbid if something horrendous like that happened to my wife, with the end result, that I wouldn't be the one to take her to Planned Parenthood myself? Don't know, I hope I am never put in that situation. I am 100% in the affirmative in what I believe. Life is life and anything -- including my own pain that I would have to endure as a result is no excuse to snuff it out. But would I have the strength? Honestly I don't know. This in no way however denies, undermines, or contradicts what I've said or what I believe.

I refuse to listen to the down playing of the process which brings about the miracle of life. This again is a relativistic term. "Meh, you're just a life source, no biggie..."

In no way am I suggesting it is wrong, to the contrary, I am saying that in many to most cases, the woman is the one to give her consent, with the power of consent comes responsibility. Whenever she gives her consent she is taking a risk in changing her -- as you put -- condition. If she becomes pregnant, this isn't a punishment, this is causality. She knows the risks, she simply ignores them or decides to take her chances.

To use a poor analogy, when you go to a Casino, put your money on the Blackjack table, the dealer deals the cards, and hits a natural 21, he comes to rake, do you sweep your money that you put up to bet into your pocket and run off or do you pay the man? Paying him isn't punishment, it is the cost, the risk of playing the game.

I'm glad you respect a woman enough to allow her the choice of abortion after being raped. However I wonder at the reasoning behind it. If it's murder to kill the fetus, why is that murder 'ok?' It is merciful, no doubt but IMO it proves that that fetal life, which may or may not ever even be born, does not have the same right to life as the woman. You could not kill the baby of a rape after it was born, could you? I'm not be crass, I'm looking at it from a *objective* view point not colored by religion, personal beliefs, or emotion.

Re: getting pregnant. It does happen. And the woman does have to accept the consequences. There is absolutely no escape from them. If she gets pregnant, she will either choose to carry it and successfully do so, choose to carry it and miscarry, or choose to have an abortion. She escapes nothing. And in both the first and last cases, she can act responsibly. In the sad middle case, well many fetuses do not come to term naturally, or there are accidents, etc. That is not usually the fault of the woman.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

I'm glad you respect a woman enough to allow her the choice of abortion after being raped. However I wonder at the reasoning behind it. If it's murder to kill the fetus, why is that murder 'ok?' It is merciful, no doubt but IMO it proves that that fetal life, which may or may not ever even be born, does not have the same right to life as the woman. You could not kill the baby of a rape after it was born, could you? I'm not be crass, I'm looking at it from a *objective* view point not colored by religion, personal beliefs, or emotion.

Re: getting pregnant. It does happen. And the woman does have to accept the consequences. There is absolutely no escape from them. If she gets pregnant, she will either choose to carry it and successfully do so, choose to carry it and miscarry, or choose to have an abortion. She escapes nothing. And in both the first and last cases, she can act responsibly. In the sad middle case, well many fetuses do not come to term naturally, or there are accidents, etc. That is not usually the fault of the woman.

See, you've misconstrued my message. Purposefully it would seem. I never said it was OK to kill anything for any reason. I specifically said exactly the opposite. I did say that that decision would be a tough one but that doesn't mean that I find the taking of life as somehow OK, that I "allow" anyone to do anything. I said that it is wrong. I also was honest enough to say that the decision was tough, and I could understand why someone would terminate the pregnancy but that doesn't mean I've given any tacit support to actually doing it. A person starving who steals a loaf of bread to save his life might feel justified in the fact that stealing saved him but that doesn't mean he didn't steal.

You're conflating different circumstances into a discussion which is very specific. Abortion. The premeditated taking of a life. While there are for instances which make a relativistic determination seem justified, there is no justification. What's further, the overwhelming argument is the use of abortion for unwanted pregnancy due to, well lets be honest, selfish reasons. My original statements on this remain unchanged. A woman, however unfair she might think it, has the biological capabilities of producing life. If she engages in sexual intercourse than she is risking the chance that those biological functions may be engaged and become active. It is her responsibility to act in a way that minimizes the chances of those functions becoming active if she is not ready, financially, physically, or emotionally. Simply put, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

See, you've misconstrued my message. Purposefully it would seem. I never said it was OK to kill anything for any reason. I specifically said exactly the opposite. I did say that that decision would be a tough one but that doesn't mean that I find the taking of life as somehow OK, that I "allow" anyone to do anything. I said that it is wrong. I also was honest enough to say that the decision was tough, and I could understand why someone would terminate the pregnancy but that doesn't mean I've given any tacit support to actually doing it. A person starving who steals a loaf of bread to save his life might feel justified in the fact that stealing saved him but that doesn't mean he didn't steal.

You're conflating different circumstances into a discussion which is very specific. Abortion. The premeditated taking of a life. While there are for instances which make a relativistic determination seem justified, there is no justification. What's further, the overwhelming argument is the use of abortion for unwanted pregnancy due to, well lets be honest, selfish reasons. My original statements on this remain unchanged. A woman, however unfair she might think it, has the biological capabilities of producing life. If she engages in sexual intercourse than she is risking the chance that those biological functions may be engaged and become active. It is her responsibility to act in a way that minimizes the chances of those functions becoming active if she is not ready, financially, physically, or emotionally. Simply put, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Your opinion and feelings on the issue are very understandable altho I mostly disagree. I DO respect a woman enough to believe she should have that choice and not be found guilty on this world for it. And YES, God will decide someday. OTOH, as a Christian, I also believe God will understand, forgive, and keep that unborn life just fine.

To make that 'tough' decision for yourself or a woman for herself...is a personal decision. No woman that does not want to make that decision would be forced to.

But to forbid a woman...or want to forbid her....to make her own decisions here is wrong and judgemental IMO. Terrible circumstances or circumstances that may change her life for herself and future children someday....those are for HER to decide, MORALLY and legally IMO. And certainly Constitutionally.

And you just referred to getting pregnant as a crime...therefore once again considering a baby 'punishment.' That is a common theme among people who use religion or other personal beliefs rather than Constitutional rights to judge women. Today's women 'can do the time.' "The time" includes legal abortion which is not murder. It is a responsible option, even tho you do not like it.

Some people choose to attach unnatural emotion and significance to developing life inside complete strangers. Developing life that MAY NEVER even be born. It's more about punishing women than saving lives. I believe in quality of life, not quantity.

Re: abortion for selfish reasons. Aside from an unplanned pregnancy, there is no reason people have kids that is not selfish. No one has kids to 'help populate society.'
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Point taken, don't think it is pleasant, an easy decision, not a consequence but rather it is however the easy way out for some and that decision will have to be reconciled some day. I was always taught that there are consequences for poor choices made and if I got a woman pregnant that is my responsibility as well as hers. I have met people who never accept responsibility for anything and thus killing the unborn isn't a problem for them. It should be and that is the problem today with society, IMO

Having an abortion when one cannot or will not properly care for a child IS taking responsibility. It is NOT responsible to birth a child you cannot or will not care for or to pawn it off on others to raise.
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

With all due respect, I see a lot of people say that it's to protect life, and that there is nothing religious about it, but virtually every protest against an abortion clinic I have ever seen was done by a religious organization. Say what you will, but this issue IS about forcing religion down the throats of others.


Going by that standard you could argue the anti-slavery movement was about "shoving religion down people's throats". Just because it's a view held by religious people does not mean one can't argue the perspective from a non-religious bias. Second, attacking them for being religious just skirts the idea of addressing their arguments on their own merits
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

i underlined the point where your argument runs into a problem.

if abortion is legal, how can it be classified as murder?

Murder is just not a legal term. Hence why people can say "the nazi murdered a bunch of jews"


murder: To kill inhumanely or barbarously; as in warfare

-Websters new world collage dictionary, pg 948, 4th edition
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

I believe Dan and I have a bet on this issue. The loser having to sport a avatar chosen by the winning party, which I believe is ME...

Soooooo....

Here ya go..

Palin 2016.jpg
 
Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

Murder is just not a legal term. Hence why people can say "the nazi murdered a bunch of jews"


murder: To kill inhumanely or barbarously; as in warfare

-Websters new world collage dictionary, pg 948, 4th edition

Abortion is neither inhumane nor barbarous
 
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