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Pa. House gets bill to post 'In God We Trust' in schools

Here is your statement:



That, because of the bill's language is unequivocally false. You'd do well to remember what you post.

I know it's tough for you sometimes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I meant.

Besides that, no one is being required to do anything they don't want to do, outside of their job description.

Now, if you can show me where in the bill that a state religion has been established, or that someone's freedom of religion has been infringed upon, you might have a point. Can you?
 
It's an option - not mandatory...

The complexities of freedom. Wow, it took an entire bill re-ratify the First Amendment...
It is mandatory, or so it appears in the act as it exists for the moment (I had to transcribe the damn thing because the link from the AP article is apparently just scanner images):
AN ACT​
Providing for the display of the national motto “In God We Trust” in classrooms and other areas in public school buildings
The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania hereby enacts as follows:

Section 1. Short title.
This act shall be known and may be cited as the National Motto Display Act.​

Section 2. Legislative findings and declarations.
(1) The motto “In God We trust” is part of the history and heritage of the United States. On April 22, 2014, we will celebrated the 150th anniversary of our national motto “In God We Trust” on our coins. Although this phrase was not officially established as our national motto until a law was passed by the 84th Congress and approved by President Eisenhower, it was first introduced to the nation by Francis Scott Key in 1814 as words that would be included in our national anthem.
(2) It was a Pennsylvanian however, that installed those words on our coins. James Pollock from Milton, Pennsylvania, became our 13th governor serving from 1855 to 1858. He was known as “The Great Christian Governor.” Prior to Pollock’s term as Governor and as one of the original trustees when The Pennsylvania State University became a charter, he served as a member of the Congress of the United States and became friends with then congressman, Abraham Lincoln. When Lincoln became president, he appointed Pollock director of the United States Mint.
(3) Pollock suggested the motto “In God We Trust” be featured on all United Stated currency. This practice first occurred in April of 1864 when Congress approved the use of the motto on the United States two-cent pieces. Since then, the motto has been inscribed on most denominations of coins in an uninterrupted period of time extending from the present back to 1916.
(4) In 1956, the Congress of the United States adopted the motto “In God We Trust” as the national motto. It is currently codified at 36 U.S.C. § 302 (relating to national motto). Since 1957, the United States Bureau of Engraving and Printing has gradually incorporated the motto in the design on the reverse of all paper currency.
(5) On July 24, 2000, the United States House of Representatives, along with the concurrence of the Senate, unanimously resolved to encourage the display of the national motto of the United States in public buildings throughout the nation.
(6) To increase student understanding and familiarity with American historical documents, historically important excerpts from or copies of the documents should be prominently displayed in public school buildings.
(7) The Federal 5th, 9th, and 10th Circuit Courts have ruled that displaying the national motto passes constitutional muster so long as the purpose of the display is to advance or endorse the national motto rather than a particular religious belief or practice.​

Section 3. Display of motto.
(a) Board of directors.—The board of directors of every school district in this Commonwealth shall display the motto “In God We Trust,”, which is declared in 36 U.S.C. § 302 (relating to national motto) to be the national motto of the United States, in each school building.
(b) Form.—The display of the motto “in God We Trust” may take the form of, but is not limited to, a mounted plaque or may include artwork as a result of a student contest that will be prominently displayed in each school building.​

Section 20. Effective date.
This act shall take effect in 60 days.
tl;dr version:
So far as I can tell, it thus far consists of:
Section 1: Name
Section 2: Justification
Section 3: Implementation.
Section 20: When.

Also, where did sections 4-19 go?


Edit: Section 3a deals with the requirement part.
 
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I find it curious that people are for establishing a mix of religion and state as long as the religious mix is juuuuuust vague enough that it can't pinned to one faith. As if everyone is religious.
Easy solution: abolish public schools. All schools should be private with a voucher system anyway.
 
It is mandatory, or so it appears in the act as it exists for the moment (I had to transcribe the damn thing because the link from the AP article is apparently just scanner images):

tl;dr version:
So far as I can tell, it thus far consists of:
Section 1: Name
Section 2: Justification
Section 3: Implementation.
Section 20: When.

Also, where did sections 4-19 go?


Edit: Section 3a deals with the requirement part.

It's not mandatory - that would violate both the First and Tenth Amendments (in reality -- who knows in progressiveland).
 
Does anyone understand the concept that you cannot force me to pray, and you cannot force me NOT to pray?

Welcome to our First Amendment...
 
It's not mandatory - that would violate both the First and Tenth Amendments (in reality -- who knows in progressiveland).
What part of section 3a indicates it is not mandatory?
The board of directors of every school district in this Commonwealth shall display the motto “In God We Trust,”, which is declared in 36 U.S.C. § 302 (relating to national motto) to be the national motto of the United States, in each school building.

The bit where it says "...shall display the motto..." sounds fairly mandatory to me.
 
What part of section 3a indicates it is not mandatory?


The bit where it says "...shall display the motto..." sounds fairly mandatory to me.

The whole part of the First Amendment that references religion.

Using your logic you may as well say McDonalds is forcing you to eat a Big Mac via advertising -- wait you already own those nutters that already claim that...


What can I not promote that you cannot refuse?
 
Easy solution: abolish public schools. All schools should be private with a voucher system anyway.

I'll pass on that thank you. I'd rather we not be taxed and have it given to church schools... which would in effect be the government establishing religion. Then have their graduates tell us that the world is 6000 years old and dinosaurs either never happened or were our pets.
 
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The whole part of the First Amendment that references religion.

Using your logic you may as well say McDonalds is forcing you to eat a Big Mac via advertising -- wait you already own those nutters that already claim that...


What can I not promote that you cannot refuse?
I'm not claiming this act is constitutional, although it might actually be (so long as the motto is displayed as the motto, not as a religious statement...damn hair splitting).

I'm just pointing out that if this act becomes law (it currently has only passed a committee), it WOULD require the display. Which might spark a court case. Hell, that might be one of the reasons for this attempt...to spark a court case.
 
Besides that, no one is being required to do anything they don't want to do, outside of their job description.

That is proven false as the law now requires them to post a giant sign saying in god we trust.
 
The whole part of the First Amendment that references religion.

It's not about religion, according to its supporters. It's about the national motto, and the bill says "shall" not "may".
 
But, that's all it does.

Which is a direct violation of freedom of speech. If a school doesn't want to display them, they are in fact being forced to by law. Which is a direct violation of the first.
 
Which is a direct violation of freedom of speech. If a school doesn't want to display them, they are in fact being forced to by law. Which is a direct violation of the first.

Who owns and operates the school? The government?
 
Who owns and operates the school? The government?

So wait a minute. It's now been shown they HAVE to put this sign up. Just because it is government saying to do it, doesn't mean it's the right or correct thing to do.

I have no dog in this fight as I don't live in that state, but if I were voters in that state, I would be rather ticked off that money, time, and effort is being spent on this thing.
 
So wait a minute. It's now been shown they HAVE to put this sign up. Just because it is government saying to do it, doesn't mean it's the right or correct thing to do.

I have no dog in this fight as I don't live in that state, but if I were voters in that state, I would be rather ticked off that money, time, and effort is being spent on this thing.

A waste of time and money? Oh yeah, for sure.
 
I think the law is stupid. That said, as it's written, I have no issue with it.

I have no issue with a state dictating that their state schools must have certain things present at a school. I have no issue with a school putting up official national mottos or icongraphy. Therefore I have no issue with a state dictating that their state funded schools must display official national mottos or icongraphy.
 
Who owns and operates the school? The government?

The locally elected school board, who are responsible to the people who elected them.
Not the state.

anyway, it's not supposed to be the state.
 
The locally elected school board, who are responsible to the people who elected them.
Not the state.

anyway, it's not supposed to be the state.

The school boards answer to the state.
 
The US could conceivable survive such an ignorant faith based move if 'In god we trust' isn't taken literally. It's very unlikely it would be even in the most conservative states.
 
The school boards answer to the state.

Yes, and the feds, which is something that needs to be changed. They need to answer to the voters who elected them, just like any other elected official.
 
What I don't get about the religious right is that they always want to promote weird un-Christian doctrines, like posting the 10 Commandments in courtrooms, when the whole point of Christianity is that it doesn't follow the Law -- weird).

So it is with "In God We Trust". It's not even Christian concept, except in the derivative sense that Peter and Paul said to accept one's suffering for the gospel, trusting that God will reward us spiritually (somehow I don't think the Pennsylvanian legislators had that in mind).

If you want to use a Christian motto, how about "Love your neighbor" or "Give to the poor". That's what Jesus taught, and (predictably) it's not what the Christian Right wants to promote.
 
What I don't get about the religious right is that they always want to promote weird un-Christian doctrines, like posting the 10 Commandments in courtrooms, when the whole point of Christianity is that it doesn't follow the Law -- weird).

So it is with "In God We Trust". It's not even Christian concept, except in the derivative sense that Peter and Paul said to accept one's suffering for the gospel, trusting that God will reward us spiritually (somehow I don't think the Pennsylvanian legislators had that in mind).

If you want to use a Christian motto, how about "Love your neighbor" or "Give to the poor". That's what Jesus taught, and (predictably) it's not what the Christian Right wants to promote.

"Love thy neighbor"? Lol!
 
What I don't get about the religious right is that they always want to promote weird un-Christian doctrines, like posting the 10 Commandments in courtrooms, when the whole point of Christianity is that it doesn't follow the Law -- weird).

So it is with "In God We Trust". It's not even Christian concept, except in the derivative sense that Peter and Paul said to accept one's suffering for the gospel, trusting that God will reward us spiritually (somehow I don't think the Pennsylvanian legislators had that in mind).

If you want to use a Christian motto, how about "Love your neighbor" or "Give to the poor". That's what Jesus taught, and (predictably) it's not what the Christian Right wants to promote.
So far as I know, "in god we trust" is the only somewhat religious statement which is an official national motto - so they have various things to hide behind if people complain.
 
What I don't get about the religious right is that they always want to promote weird un-Christian doctrines, like posting the 10 Commandments in courtrooms, when the whole point of Christianity is that it doesn't follow the Law -- weird).

So it is with "In God We Trust". It's not even Christian concept, except in the derivative sense that Peter and Paul said to accept one's suffering for the gospel, trusting that God will reward us spiritually (somehow I don't think the Pennsylvanian legislators had that in mind).

If you want to use a Christian motto, how about "Love your neighbor" or "Give to the poor". That's what Jesus taught, and (predictably) it's not what the Christian Right wants to promote.

How about "Take all that thou hast, give unto the poor, and come, follow me". Now, there's a motto that practically no one can get behind.
 
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