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School shooting this morning . . .

Prove it. Cops are a reactionary force at best. Them being in the right place at the right time is next to nil.
:roll:

Policing can be a dangerous job and therefore not for everyone. Some of the danger is physical; there is an ever-present possibility of attack or of being asked to perform physically taxing tasks. Another kind of danger, though, is psychological and can come, as mentioned, from thoughts of the possibility of danger or, more likely, from the stresses of being exposed to negative events in the lives of others.

When asked about stress, officers most frequently mention the police organization itself as a stressor. The need to make decisions on the streets or highways, but then to have those decisions so frequently questioned by the public, the media, and senior officers within the department, leads many officers to feel they are constantly under scrutiny for even the most routine activities.

Becoming a Police Officer: Risks | Education.com

Today’s law enforcement officers face a multitude of dangers in their everyday duties that rival the threat of getting shot. For example:


Foot pursuits
Vehicle pursuits
Responding code 3 (lights and siren)
Making an arrest
Traffic control
Heat stroke
Stress
Duty equipment
Biohazard exposure/sun exposure

Officers are exposed to these dangers on a daily basis.

The real dangers of police work are not what you think - Lodinews.com: Behind The Badge

"There are more people out there who are bad guys and could care less about killing you," he said. "I don't think the public has a clue as to what law enforcement goes through every day -- the stress they are under or all the bad things they see."

A decrease in law enforcement officers killed doesn't mean the job is getting that much safer or criminals have become less violent toward police. What it may suggest, though, is that law enforcement officers have become smarter.

Manning, the criminal justice professor, cites three major factors in helping keep more officers alive: 1) increased use and proven effectiveness of bulletproof vests; 2) improved education and procedures for hostage and other potentially perilous situations; and 3) the advent and rise of specialized units to deal with the bigger crises.

Dangers real, but deaths increasingly rare for police officers - CNN.com
 
Have any sort of link to back that up or just another lie.

Support for gun control is geographically and racially concentrated in ways that sap the movement of political power. And that disparity of opinion is linked to another reality: there is no national consensus on guns because different bits of America experience such wildly differing rates of harm from guns.

A valuable and sobering piece of research by the Washington Post on March 24th put some hard numbers behind the reality that everyone in the gun debate knows but finds hard to discuss. Rural and urban Americans, as well as blacks and whites, might as well live in different countries when it comes to their exposure to gun violence.

Gun control: America's gun divide | The Economist

Urbanicity

There is an inverse relationship between gun ownership and urbanicity, with the majority of guns owned by those
living in rural areas. These findings are consistent with trends since the 1970s.

(snip)

The majority of respondents in urban and suburban areas reported that gun control was more important than
protecting the right to own guns. In rural areas, the majority favored protecting the right to own guns over gun
control. These figures are consistent

https://blogs.commons.georgetown.edu/ket37/files/Gun-Ownership-and-Opinion-in-the-United-States.pdf

Rural America is as integral to the national character as the nation’s cities are. But no more so. Manchin and Toomey, both from gun-friendly states, deserve praise for striking a compromise between urban and rural values that would protect the public from criminals and madmen while honoring the traditions and rights of gun owners. The Senate’s rejection of that compromise bodes well for no one.

Rural America vs. Sensible Gun Control - Bloomberg
 
2 dead? Not that bad. Investigate, punish the offender, done and done.


Not that bad, shows how desensitized the public is becoming to these shootings.

I hope it is trending now, like serial killers did in the 80's and it will become less prevelant.

More mental healthcare, please
 
:roll:

Policing can be a dangerous job and therefore not for everyone. Some of the danger is physical; there is an ever-present possibility of attack or of being asked to perform physically taxing tasks. Another kind of danger, though, is psychological and can come, as mentioned, from thoughts of the possibility of danger or, more likely, from the stresses of being exposed to negative events in the lives of others.

When asked about stress, officers most frequently mention the police organization itself as a stressor. The need to make decisions on the streets or highways, but then to have those decisions so frequently questioned by the public, the media, and senior officers within the department, leads many officers to feel they are constantly under scrutiny for even the most routine activities.

Becoming a Police Officer: Risks | Education.com

Today’s law enforcement officers face a multitude of dangers in their everyday duties that rival the threat of getting shot. For example:


Foot pursuits
Vehicle pursuits
Responding code 3 (lights and siren)
Making an arrest
Traffic control
Heat stroke
Stress
Duty equipment
Biohazard exposure/sun exposure

Officers are exposed to these dangers on a daily basis.

The real dangers of police work are not what you think - Lodinews.com: Behind The Badge

"There are more people out there who are bad guys and could care less about killing you," he said. "I don't think the public has a clue as to what law enforcement goes through every day -- the stress they are under or all the bad things they see."

A decrease in law enforcement officers killed doesn't mean the job is getting that much safer or criminals have become less violent toward police. What it may suggest, though, is that law enforcement officers have become smarter.

Manning, the criminal justice professor, cites three major factors in helping keep more officers alive: 1) increased use and proven effectiveness of bulletproof vests; 2) improved education and procedures for hostage and other potentially perilous situations; and 3) the advent and rise of specialized units to deal with the bigger crises.

Dangers real, but deaths increasingly rare for police officers - CNN.com

Most Dangerous Jobs in America
Rank based on deaths per 100,000 workers

  1. Fishermen/Fishing Industry - 42 fatal injuries 2011
  2. Logging Workers - 65 fatal injuries
  3. Aircraft Pilots & Flight Engineers - 71 fatal injuries
  4. Refuse Collection & Recycling - 30 fatal injuries
  5. Roofers - 60 fatal injuries
  6. Iron Workes - 18 fatal injuries
  7. Farmers/Ranchers - 268 fatal injuries
  8. Driver/Salesworkers & Truck Drivers - 774 fatal injuries
  9. Taxi Drivers - 64 fatal injuries
  10. Electrical Power Line Installer/Repairers - 26 fatal injuries
  11. Police - 130 fatal injuries
  12. Grounds Maintenance Workers - 183 fatal injuries
  13. Construction Laborers - 191 fatal injuries
  14. Coal Mining - 17 fatal injuries
  15. Construction Equipment Operators - 47 fatal injuries
  16. Athletics - 23 fatal injuries

Coppers are surprisingly low on the list.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most...thletes-coaches-umpires-and-related-workers-1
 
Most Dangerous Jobs in America
Rank based on deaths per 100,000 workers

  1. Fishermen/Fishing Industry - 42 fatal injuries 2011
  2. Logging Workers - 65 fatal injuries
  3. Aircraft Pilots & Flight Engineers - 71 fatal injuries
  4. Refuse Collection & Recycling - 30 fatal injuries
  5. Roofers - 60 fatal injuries
  6. Iron Workes - 18 fatal injuries
  7. Farmers/Ranchers - 268 fatal injuries
  8. Driver/Salesworkers & Truck Drivers - 774 fatal injuries
  9. Taxi Drivers - 64 fatal injuries
  10. Electrical Power Line Installer/Repairers - 26 fatal injuries
  11. Police - 130 fatal injuries
  12. Grounds Maintenance Workers - 183 fatal injuries
  13. Construction Laborers - 191 fatal injuries
  14. Coal Mining - 17 fatal injuries
  15. Construction Equipment Operators - 47 fatal injuries
  16. Athletics - 23 fatal injuries

Coppers are surprisingly low on the list.

Most Dangerous Jobs In America - Business Insider

Yep. And not anything guns would help them with. not the same for police officers. ;)
 
I don't understand your point. ?

The issue is about using guns. Whether police need more than the general public. While some professions have more deaths, they are due to not having a gun for protection. So, the question is not where they rank, but if the face more dangers that require a gun than the general population.
 
The issue is about using guns. Whether police need more than the general public. While some professions have more deaths, they are due to not having a gun for protection. So, the question is not where they rank, but if the face more dangers that require a gun than the general population.

I see. Well, unless one has statistics about how many times an officer draws a gun and uses it to protect himself, we can't logically draw any conclusions in that regard.
 
Then show where TD said this as you claimed.

never said I was quoting him and I already stated that quite clearly. You need to go back and read it again.
 
I see. Well, unless one has statistics about how many times an officer draws a gun and uses it to protect himself, we can't logically draw any conclusions in that regard.

I think I've given links to show the danger and where a gun would be necessary.

But for you:

CRIMINAL SHOOTING INCIDENTS 1,510

OFFICERS FIRING DURING INCIDENTS OF INTENTIONAL POLICE
DISCHARGE DURING ADVERSARIAL CONFLICT 62

INCIDENTS OF INTENTIONAL POLICE DISCHARGE DURING ADVERSARIAL CONFLICT 36

SUBJECTS SHOT AND INJURED 19

SUBJECTS SHOT AND KILLED 9

OFFICERS SHOT AND INJURED 3

OFFICERS SHOT AND KILLED 1

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...ypd_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2011.pdf

That was just from one city.

According to preliminary statistics released today by the FBI, 47 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed in the line of duty in 2012. The total number of officers killed is 25 fewer than the 72 officers who died in 2011. By region, 22 officers were killed as a result of criminal acts that occurred in the South, eight officers in the West, six officers in the Northeast, five officers died due to incidents in the Midwest, and six officers were killed in the U.S. territories of Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

By circumstance, 12 officers died from injuries inflicted while investigating suspicious persons or circumstances, eight who died were conducting traffic pursuits or stops, five were engaged in tactical situations, and five officers were killed as a result of ambushes (four due to entrapment/premeditated situations and one during an unprovoked attack). Four officers’ deaths occurred as a result of answering disturbance calls (two of which were domestic disturbance calls) and three officers were transporting, handling, or maintaining custody of prisoners. Two of the fallen officers sustained fatal injuries during drug-related matters, two were attempting to make other arrests, and two were performing investigative activities. Two officers were responding to robberies in progress, one was responding to a burglary in progress, and one officer was killed as a result of handling a person with a mental illness.

FBI — FBI Releases 2012 Preliminary Statistics for Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty
 

And what do those links have to with
Ah yes - the gun lobby dream of 300 million people armed to the teeth ready and willing to engage in battle at the drop of a hat anytime, anyplace and anywhere. :roll:
 
never said I was quoting him and I already stated that quite clearly. You need to go back and read it again.

You mean just now you are saying not a quote - >100 posts later
 
I just heard about this incident this morning. Crazy. What were the kids motives? I heard bullying...
 
They are human, but they are subjects. We are citizens. There is a difference. We have rights that they dont, and they hate that.

(snicker!)
Do they still teach that drivel? More to the point, do people still believe it?
I guess at least one does...
 
No, it isn't. The job demands involvement. And more, much more involvement than most ever see. That is reality.

And I have made a sound argument. You just don't need it. 7 rounds are more than enough. And it might make bad guys have to reload more often. it's a minor thing all the way around. Minor effect on the crime they want to stop and minor effect on you. hardly worth anyone whining about.

you just make stuff up in order to pretend you can address points people who understand this issue make

Its incredibly dishonest. Your posts demonstrate no ability to counter the fact that limits on what law abiding civilians have in terms of cartridge capacity are stupid and are contrary to the findings of police authorities who have determined that 15-17 rounds is the ideal capacity for defensive pistols for use against criminals

You can never make a rational argument why people "can be trusted" with guns but not say more than 8 rounds

or 5 rounds

or 2 rounds

your posts have demonstrated no expertise in this area so rather than try to argue the point you just make announcements based on stuff you have made up. You can not tell us at what point a limit is improper and you don't have the education in the subject to say why 7 rounds, 10 rounds etc are proper. (which makes you the same as people like Cuomo who just made it up)

your posts are an example of why pro rights advocates have so little use for the anti gun positions-positions that are arbitrary unreasoned nonsense.
 
You mean just now you are saying not a quote - >100 posts later

I never said it WAS a quote 100 posts ago. :doh The problem seems to be with you and not what I wrote. :roll:
 
Crazy...its been over 24 hours and still no word on the shooters identity. Considering the number of people that 'know', thats pretty fricken remarkable.
 
I never said it WAS a quote 100 posts ago. :doh The problem seems to be with you and not what I wrote. :roll:

So how did this:

or worse yet, being in a gun free zone where that guarantees only homicidal assholes are armed

Become this? Your links didn't show that.

Ah yes - the gun lobby dream of 300 million people armed to the teeth ready and willing to engage in battle at the drop of a hat anytime, anyplace and anywhere.
 
you just make stuff up in order to pretend you can address points people who understand this issue make

Its incredibly dishonest. Your posts demonstrate no ability to counter the fact that limits on what law abiding civilians have in terms of cartridge capacity are stupid and are contrary to the findings of police authorities who have determined that 15-17 rounds is the ideal capacity for defensive pistols for use against criminals

You can never make a rational argument why people "can be trusted" with guns but not say more than 8 rounds

or 5 rounds

or 2 rounds

your posts have demonstrated no expertise in this area so rather than try to argue the point you just make announcements based on stuff you have made up. You can not tell us at what point a limit is improper and you don't have the education in the subject to say why 7 rounds, 10 rounds etc are proper. (which makes you the same as people like Cuomo who just made it up)

your posts are an example of why pro rights advocates have so little use for the anti gun positions-positions that are arbitrary unreasoned nonsense.

And yet, you continue to rant about me and not address the points. I've provided links for support for what I've said. You have yet to show that self fabled reasoning skills you boast.

:coffeepap
 
And yet, you continue to rant about me and not address the points. I've provided links for support for what I've said. You have yet to show that self fabled reasoning skills you boast.

:coffeepap

you haven't come close to supporting why honest people should be limited to less rounds than public servants or criminals. You just make crap up and repeat that BS over and over and over

since you have never been in a gun fight or competed at a world class or national class (or even club class level) where do you get off saying reloading isn't that big a deal under stress?
 
you haven't come close to supporting why honest people should be limited to less rounds than public servants or criminals. You just make crap up and repeat that BS over and over and over

since you have never been in a gun fight or competed at a world class or national class (or even club class level) where do you get off saying reloading isn't that big a deal under stress?

If you really believe that, you're missing a lot.

Btw, gun fights are not something that really happens. This isn't Iraq. Some stop pretending this is the Wild West and you're John Wayne.
 
So how did this:



Become this? Your links didn't show that.

easy - the person whom you quoted has been lobbying for more and more gun proliferation for years now and uses this so called excuse of "gun free zones" to push that idea.
 
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