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The Republican civil war is just getting started

The problem is the Tea Party movement was never about that. It was a direct reaction to Obama's election. They had no problem with growing debt for 30 years. They suddenly have a problem with it when Obama gets elected.

At the core, this 'movement' was always about race.
 
Oh, and things were booming under the Libbos and would boom again, if only eveeryone would get out of Obama's way? Surely you jest!

Ahhh, 'Libbos'! You can always tell the comments that follow will be in depth and interesting when the word 'libbos' is used.
 
How's it goning to go for the Dems when Obamacare flops?

Keep fantasizing! I like it when you guys divorce yourselves totally from reality.
 
Keep fantasizing! I like it when you guys divorce yourselves totally from reality.

You have 29 million people to sign up before December 15. So far, you've signed 30 thousand. Do the math.
 
You have 29 million people to sign up before December 15. So far, you've signed 30 thousand. Do the math.

I have always said the fate of the ACA will be decided by those who already had health insurance. Whether they think after the full implementation of the ACA which looks like a full year away now whether what they have then is better or worse than under the old system. I just looked at RCP which complies an average of 6 polls concerning the health care law. Today that average is 48.8 against the ACA 38.3 in favor of the ACA.

But what is most notable besides the ten point gap showing most people still against it, is for the first time since the ACA was passed, the average percentage against has dropped below 50%. Back before the election of 2010 the margin was 58% against to 32% in favor which was huge 26% gap and the Democrats paid the price losing 63 house seats and 6 senate seat by pushing a law the vast majority of American's didn't want.

But let's go back to Sep 30 before the government shutdown over the defunding rider. the average showed 52.5% against the ACA and 37.9% in favor. a 14 point plus advantage against the law. So the shutdown actually helped the ACA among the American people shrinking the gap from 14 to 10. Being this is an average of six polls, the numbers will not wildly swing if we just took one. It also gives a more actuate picture of how Americans still view the ACA. If one wants or cares enough they can also go inside these polls to see how Republicans, Democrats and Independents view the law along with a ton of other information.
 
I have always said the fate of the ACA will be decided by those who already had health insurance. Whether they think after the full implementation of the ACA which looks like a full year away now whether what they have then is better or worse than under the old system. I just looked at RCP which complies an average of 6 polls concerning the health care law. Today that average is 48.8 against the ACA 38.3 in favor of the ACA.

But what is most notable besides the ten point gap showing most people still against it, is for the first time since the ACA was passed, the average percentage against has dropped below 50%. Back before the election of 2010 the margin was 58% against to 32% in favor which was huge 26% gap and the Democrats paid the price losing 63 house seats and 6 senate seat by pushing a law the vast majority of American's didn't want.

But let's go back to Sep 30 before the government shutdown over the defunding rider. the average showed 52.5% against the ACA and 37.9% in favor. a 14 point plus advantage against the law. So the shutdown actually helped the ACA among the American people shrinking the gap from 14 to 10. Being this is an average of six polls, the numbers will not wildly swing if we just took one. It also gives a more actuate picture of how Americans still view the ACA. If one wants or cares enough they can also go inside these polls to see how Republicans, Democrats and Independents view the law along with a ton of other information.

What's going to happen when uninsured people get smacked with a fine, because the website is a piece of ****?
 
Like slavery? That Liberal policy?

Seriously! You should stop while you only look silly.

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberal for the time frame yes, we made a few mistakes in the founding but that doesn't make it somehow less than what it was. I'm sure you've heard of Lockean Liberalism, as a society we've just become more liberal and not for the worse as you seem to think.
 
The problem is the Tea Party movement was never about that. It was a direct reaction to Obama's election. They had no problem with growing debt for 30 years. They suddenly have a problem with it when Obama gets elected.

To be fair, I remember when the Tea Party protested in GW's term . . . against pretty much all incumbents. Now, that's not to say the Tea Party has morphed into something very different from its infancy.
 
Liberal for the time frame yes, we made a few mistakes in the founding but that doesn't make it somehow less than what it was. I'm sure you've heard of Lockean Liberalism, as a society we've just become more liberal and not for the worse as you seem to think.

Classic Liberals believe in limited government. Leftists want more government. They're not the same and the country is a long way from being mostly Left Wing.
 
Classic Liberals believe in limited government. Leftists want more government. They're not the same and the country is a long way from being mostly Left Wing.

Again making up catch phrases doesn't help your standing, it'd be interesting what you'd do if you actually encountered a liberal and not a US labeled one.

Obama is no where near the liberal you think he is, which is pretty amusing concept to the rest of the world.
 
What's going to happen when uninsured people get smacked with a fine, because the website is a piece of ****?

Actually according to the news, until mid December this is just like getting your name on the list and a person won't be considered enrolled until the government receives their check which no one can start paying until that mid December date what ever it is. Even though your name maybe on the list, you are no officially enrolled until the government receives you money and that doesn't start until then.
 
Again making up catch phrases doesn't help your standing, it'd be interesting what you'd do if you actually encountered a liberal and not a US labeled one.

Obama is no where near the liberal you think he is, which is pretty amusing concept to the rest of the world.
That's for sure, if he was liberal he would have pushed for single payer health insurance (like Medicare for all) rather than depending on profit making insurance companies.
 
That's for sure, if he was liberal he would have pushed for single payer health insurance (like Medicare for all) rather than depending on profit making insurance companies.

When I first heard of ACA and it included a single payor option I was excited to be able to have an alternative to the expensive privatized insurance companies; and then they GOP lobbies killed that section of the bill suddenly I realized just how far away the US from an actual liberal country in terms of caring for its people.
 
That's for sure, if he was liberal he would have pushed for single payer health insurance (like Medicare for all) rather than depending on profit making insurance companies.

Oh, Obama IS a supporter of...and has pushed for...single payer health insurance. Here, watch this:




Now...is Obama willing to not get single payer if it suits his agenda? Sure he is. The only reason he went along with Obamacare is because his own Party wasn't ready to move ahead with single payer.

So, yes...Obama is a liberal.
 
When I first heard of ACA and it included a single payor option I was excited to be able to have an alternative to the expensive privatized insurance companies; and then they GOP lobbies killed that section of the bill suddenly I realized just how far away the US from an actual liberal country in terms of caring for its people.

The GOP didn't kill it...they really had no say in the matter. It was Democrats who killed single payer.

Top Blue Dog Boasts: "We Held Bill Hostage," Killed Single Payer (VIDEO)


btw, check out my sig line, Nynaeve.
 
GOP did kill it, just because he has a D in his name doesn't make him not a conservative.

Also, good quote.

Oh...so you blame the GOP because a Democrat killed single payer. Isn't that kind of like saying it's all Obama's fault that the GOP keep trying to kill Obamacare?
 
Actually according to the news, until mid December this is just like getting your name on the list and a person won't be considered enrolled until the government receives their check which no one can start paying until that mid December date what ever it is. Even though your name maybe on the list, you are no officially enrolled until the government receives you money and that doesn't start until then.

And, only 30 thosand people have been able to get their names on the list. There are 9 or 10 weeks to put 29 millionpeople's names on the list, or theyget smacked by the IRS.
 
Again making up catch phrases doesn't help your standing, it'd be interesting what you'd do if you actually encountered a liberal and not a US labeled one.

Obama is no where near the liberal you think he is, which is pretty amusing concept to the rest of the world.

You're the only one making things up, my friend.
 
And, only 30 thosand people have been able to get their names on the list. There are 9 or 10 weeks to put 29 millionpeople's names on the list, or theyget smacked by the IRS.

That too is being talked about.
 
Oh...so you blame the GOP because a Democrat killed single payer. Isn't that kind of like saying it's all Obama's fault that the GOP keep trying to kill Obamacare?

Hes from the conservative south, calls himself conservative and is part of a conservative political group "Blue Dog Collation" its the same people who supported racism during the 1950s. Sorry, but that doesn't make him a liberal, which is usually what Democrats are. :)
 
You're the only one making things up, my friend.

I can't help it if you don't know where the US lies on the actual political spectrum, but our most liberal President is kind of a toss up between Lincoln and Washington. Historians disagree as to which was the most liberal in their time, Obama isn't even on the radar.
 
Oh, Obama IS a supporter of...and has pushed for...single payer health insurance. Here, watch this:




Now...is Obama willing to not get single payer if it suits his agenda? Sure he is. The only reason he went along with Obamacare is because his own Party wasn't ready to move ahead with single payer.

So, yes...Obama is a liberal.

Have you ever seen in the movies where ransom notes are made from words cut from a newspaper? Well, that's what that right-wing video reminds me of. Of course the problem with implementing anything like single payer is the insurance companies buy the politicians.

There are other reasons to believe Obama is not as liberal as you may think he is. He appears to be all too willing to give up areas in the social safety net such SS and Medicare that are dear to liberals as bargaining chips. He might be a great poker player but one cannot be too sure.

He has also followed many of policies put in place by GWB.
 
Hes from the conservative south, calls himself conservative and is part of a conservative political group "Blue Dog Collation" its the same people who supported racism during the 1950s. Sorry, but that doesn't make him a liberal, which is usually what Democrats are. :)

So what?

All you said is true...but it also doesn't make him a Republican.

As I said, the Republicans did not kill single payer...Democrats did.
 
Have you ever seen in the movies where ransom notes are made from words cut from a newspaper? Well, that's what that right-wing video reminds me of. Of course the problem with implementing anything like single payer is the insurance companies buy the politicians.

There are other reasons to believe Obama is not as liberal as you may think he is. He appears to be all too willing to give up areas in the social safety net such SS and Medicare that are dear to liberals as bargaining chips. He might be a great poker player but one cannot be too sure.

He has also followed many of policies put in place by GWB.

shrug...

Just because he's DONE things that liberals like you don't like, doesn't mean he's not a liberal. It just means he's willing to make deals...he's willing to forgo his agenda when it suits him politically.

All you have to do is listen to and read the things he's said over the years...especially when he campaigned.
 
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