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The Republican civil war is just getting started

TurtleDude said:
your blatantly dishonest posts are entertaining lots of people

payroll taxes are different than the Federal Income Tax
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Really? Explain to us the difference between the payroll tax and you're so called "federal income tax" from the perspective of the average wage-earning taxpayer.

We'd all like to hear it :rofl:
 
solletica said:
Really? Explain to us the difference between the payroll tax and you're so called "federal income tax" from the perspective of the average wage-earning taxpayer.

We'd all like to hear it :rofl:
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I couldn't care less. the payroll "taxes" as you call them are supposed to be used for benefits for the tax payer. the Federal Income tax does not result in any proportionate benefits for the tax payer. Many "taxpayers" pay almost no Federal Income Tax but do pay social security "tax" medicare "tax" etc which they allegedly benefit from.
 
NIMBY said:
Republicans continue to rue the day Nixon was POTUS..
Not because of Watergate, but because of his dozens of domestic contributions ..
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LOL....I'd say the Hardcore CONs in the GOP loath Nixon as he was the last of the moderate Republicans. To this day one of the CON's favorite 'E-Vile' agencies is the EPA, which Nixon started. After Nixon strident Ideology replaced pragmatic business sense. Greedy became good and society was a page in the Sunday paper.... :peace
 
solletica said:
You won't have to wait long, because I already had it, or else I wouldn't have asked td to provide it for us.

But the burden of proof is td's, because he's the one who made the ridiculous claim about the upper 5% paying most of the total federal income taxes collected.

And we're waiting for him to cite it for us. . .

. . .although, this is a historic moment for td--has actually cited something, albeit the wrong document, but something, which is a first for him.
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So you agree 'Your link doesn't say anything specifically about the rate table including payroll taxes (please point it out if I missed it)' as was YOUR assertion.

And no, when YOU make assertions the burden of proof is on YOU...TD's was a different assertion...but of course you don't agree and have yet failed to support that payroll taxes ARE income taxes...it seems the IRS disagrees with you...?
 
TurtleDude said:
I couldn't care less. the payroll "taxes" as you call them are supposed to be used for benefits for the tax payer.
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The federal govt. claims all taxes are used for the benefit of the taxpayer. How is the payroll tax any different?

TurtleDude said:
the Federal Income tax does not result in any proportionate benefits for the tax payer. Many "taxpayers" pay almost no Federal Income Tax but do pay social security "tax" medicare "tax" etc which they allegedly benefit from.
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Really? Explain to us what this "alleged benefit" is and how it's different from any other federal tax.
 
Dickieboy said:
So you agree 'Your link doesn't say anything specifically about the rate table including payroll taxes (please point it out if I missed it)' as was YOUR assertion.

And no, when YOU make assertions the burden of proof is on YOU
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No, the burden of proof is TD's, because he asserted that the upper 5% pay MOST of the TOTAL federal tax burden, i. e.

turtledude said:
ts certainly far lower on the bottom 95% who pay less of the total federal income tax burden than in any time in the last 60 years.
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And the total federal income tax burden INCLUDES the payroll tax, which is why they are bundled into the income tax rates quoted by the IRS.

But td has yet to provide us that chart; he's still worming around in silliness trying to claim that payroll taxes don't count as an income tax even though it's unrefundable money taken by the federal govt. based on income.

Maybe we should tell all those who pay payroll taxes that they shouldn't be concerned about it since it's not really a tax, according to td :lol:
 
solletica said:
The federal govt. claims all taxes are used for the benefit of the taxpayer. How is the payroll tax any different?



Really? Explain to us what this "alleged benefit" is and how it's different from any other federal tax.
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Do you deny that the top 5% pay about 57% or more of the Federal INcome Tax/
 
solletica said:
No, the burden of proof is TD's, because he asserted that the upper 5% pay MOST of the TOTAL federal tax burden, i. e.



And the total federal income tax burden INCLUDES the payroll tax, which is why they are bundled into the income tax rates quoted by the IRS.

But td has yet to provide us that chart; he's still worming around in silliness trying to claim that payroll taxes don't count as an income tax even though it's unrefundable money taken by the federal govt. based on income.

Maybe we should tell all those who pay payroll taxes that they shouldn't be concerned about it since it's not really a tax, according to td :lol:
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I guess lying is the SOP in your posts
 
solletica said:
What's obvious to most people is your inability to cite anything to back up your assertions.

I ask again: cite actual evidence from an official source showing that the TOTAL federal tax burden for the upper 5% exceeds that of the lower 95%.

We're still waiting. . .
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While I'm sure this is a waste of time:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/13inwinbulratesshare.pdf
Ok, go to page 61.

Note the 2010 line (latest data available), look in 'total' column where you will find $949,144 million. Now look in column 3, 'Top 5 percent' and find $549,474 million. So the percentage of '5 percenter's' is 57.9% of the whole INCOME TAX revenue realized. This would support '5% exceeds that of the lower 95%.'

This is a more convenient source but may not meet your 'official source' prerequisite...

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

From this site you will note this is not a 'new' trend...
 
Dickieboy said:
While I'm sure this is a waste of time:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/13inwinbulratesshare.pdf
Ok, go to page 61.

Note the 2010 line (latest data available), look in 'total' column where you will find $949,144 million. Now look in column 3, 'Top 5 percent' and find $549,474 million. So the percentage of '5 percenter's' is 57.9% of the whole INCOME TAX revenue realized. This would support '5% exceeds that of the lower 95%.'

This is a more convenient source but may not meet your 'official source' prerequisite...

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

From this site you will note this is not a 'new' trend...
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it is sort of a waste of time to provide evidence to posters who ignore facts and change the subject when they have been proven wrong
 
solletica said:
...And the total federal income tax burden INCLUDES the payroll tax, which is why they are bundled into the income tax rates quoted by the IRS...
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'Bundled' in what income tax rates quoted where? The site you provided earlier didn't indicate that PR was included in income tax rates (which I pointed out). The site I provided refuted it...did I miss something?
 
TurtleDude said:
Do you deny that the top 5% pay about 57% or more of the Federal INcome Tax/
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They don't. Here's the chart that shows the breakdown of what each segment of the populate pays in TOTAL federal income taxes, and TOTAL state taxes (including sales and excise taxes). . .

state-local-federal-taxes-income.jpg


The one tax graph you really need to know
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From the Washington Post's chart, the portion of the total federal income tax burden paid by the upper 5% =

upper 1% federal portion + upper 4% federal portion = 21.1% + 20.6% = 41.7%.

And 41.7% is not the majority, i. e. the lower 95% is paying the remaining 58.3% of the total federal income tax burden.

--
The WP's chart is taken the following table from Citizens For Tax Justice,

taxday2012table.jpg


The portion that denotes the total federal income tax share as cited in the Post's chart can easily be computed from CTJ's chart above showing the combined state and federal tax burdens.

And, as can easily be seen from the above chart, the total state and federal tax burdens for thee upper 5% =
21.6% (top 1%) + 15.5% (next 4%) = 37.1% .

So kinda hard to make an argument that the upper 5% (the richest) are paying most of the total taxes with a 37.1% figure, eh? ?

CTJ's data, in turn, is derived from the Institute on Taxation on Economic Policy. . .

All Reports By Year | The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)
 
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Why does Solletica continue to dishonestly confuse the FEDERAL INCOME TAX with all taxes
 
solletica said:
They don't. Here's the chart that shows the breakdown of what each segment of the populate pays in TOTAL federal income taxes, and TOTAL state taxes (including sales and excise taxes). . .



From the Washington Post's chart, the portion of the total federal income tax burden paid by the upper 5% =

upper 1% federal portion + upper 4% federal portion = 21.1% + 20.6% = 41.7%.

And 41.7% is not the majority, i. e. the lower 95% is paying the remaining 58.3% of the total federal income tax burden.

--
The WP's chart is taken the following table from Citizens For Tax Justice,

...
The portion that denotes the total federal income tax share as cited in the Post's chart can easily be computed from CTJ's chart showing the combined state and federal tax burdens.

CTJ's data, in turn, is derived from the Institute on Taxation on Economic Policy. . .
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OH GREAT! Now Washington Post and CTJ are 'official source'...you're kidding right? :lamo
 
Dickieboy said:
OH GREAT! Now Washington Post and CTJ are 'official source'...you're kidding right? :lamo
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Its hilarious watching the diversion.
 
Dickieboy said:
OH GREAT! Now Washington Post and CTJ are 'official source'...you're kidding right? :lamo
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Because BOTH sources are taking their data from the ITEP, which is an authoritative source. . .

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) is a non-profit, non-partisan think tank that works on state and federal tax policy issues. ITEP was founded in 1980, and is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization. ITEP describes its mission as striving to “keep policymakers and the public informed of the effects of current and proposed tax polices on tax fairness, government budgets and sound economic policy.”

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) is a non-profit, non-partisan think tank that works on state and federal tax policy issues. ITEP was founded in 1980, and is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization. ITEP describes its mission as striving to “keep policymakers and the public informed of the effects of current and proposed tax polices on tax fairness, government budgets and sound economic policy.”

Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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TurtleDude said:
Its hilarious watching the diversion.
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What's even more funny is that HER link supports YOUR assertion. Note from the WP link:

total-tax-bill-income.jpg

Uh, 'top 1'=29% '95-99'=30.4...30.4+29=...59.4%

Yep, looks like more to me...:lamo
 
Dickieboy said:
What's even more funny is that HER link supports YOUR assertion. Note from the WP link:

View attachment 67155362

Uh, 'top 1'=29% '95-99'=30.4...30.4+29=...59.4%

Yep, looks like more to me...:lamo
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I know, nothing is funny are "google experts" who don't bother reading what they google up.
 
solletica said:
Because BOTH sources are taking their data from the ITEP, which is an authoritative source. . .
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'authoritative' =/= 'official'...try again

ps: many 'Tea Party' groups are 501(c)...does that make them 'authoritative'?
 
TurtleDude said:
Its hilarious watching the diversion.
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Actually, nothing is as hilarious as you desperately that payroll taxes ARE NOT income taxes, even though it's money taken by the federal govt. based on income that IS NOT given back to the taxpayer.

Pretty much EVERYONE is laughing at TD for that one. But even IF THAT WEREN'T THE CASE, it's alarmingly stupid how anyone could make an argument about the equitability (fairness) of the federal tax system without using the total federal tax burden as evidence.

That one takes the case for the ultimate in stupid :lol: :roafl:
 
Dickieboy said:
What's even more funny is that HER link supports YOUR assertion. Note from the WP link:

View attachment 67155362

Uh, 'top 1'=29% '95-99'=30.4...30.4+29=...59.4%

Yep, looks like more to me...:lamo
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Uh, sorry to the burst the big bubble in your crainum, but the percentages at the bottom of that chart does not quote the pct. of taxes paid. . .

a fact which becomes brutally obvious when adding up all the percentages at the bottom and seeing that it doesn't total to 100% ?!

turtledude--the joke that keeps on giving :)
 
solletica said:
Actually, nothing is as hilarious as you desperately that payroll taxes ARE NOT income taxes, even though it's money taken by the federal govt. based on income that IS NOT given back to the taxpayer.

Pretty much EVERYONE is laughing at TD for that one. But even IF THAT WEREN'T THE CASE, it's alarmingly stupid how anyone could make an argument about the equitability (fairness) of the federal tax system without using the total federal tax burden as evidence.

That one takes the case for the ultimate in stupid :lol: :roafl:
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You seem to be unable to understand that The Federal Income Tax" does not include the payroll tax

and since the payroll tax is not a real tax on income (someone earning 150K a year pays the same AMOUNT as someone earning 400K a year and unearned income is not figured into the equation) your silly braying is just plain stupid.

and I was not making any argument other than noting that the top 5% pay more than half of the FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

fairness is not part of a system that makes some people to pay more than others. My concept of fairness is not based on FROM EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR ABILITY but everyone pays the same amount for their citizenship.

so you not only are dishonest when you try to frame my argument, you are wrong when you claim the payroll taxes are based purely on income like the Federal Income Tax
 
TurtleDude said:
You seem to be unable to understand that The Federal Income Tax" does not include the payroll tax
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WE seem to unable to understand how td can call himself sane when he attempts to claim that the upper 5% pays most of the total federal income tax (which he stated) by using data that excludes the portion of that tax paid mostly by the lower 95%.
 
solletica said:
Actually, nothing is as hilarious as you desperately that payroll taxes ARE NOT income taxes, even though it's money taken by the federal govt. based on income that IS NOT given back to the taxpayer.
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So following your supposition, the 95%er's payroll taxes are included in the general fund for use by the government...? Ok now how much of that is returned to those same folks in the form of:

Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
Child Support
Benefits for Immigrants
Medicaid
The Child Nutrition Programs
 The Food Stamp Program
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And I especially liked the next sentence:

This is merely a small portion of the many Social Welfare Services available to you, and each and every one of these programs can offer various family assistance options for families in need.
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US Welfare System - Help for US Citizens

Are these not 'given back to the taxpayer'...based on income?
 
solletica said:
WE seem to unable to understand how td can call himself sane when he attempts to claim that the upper 5% pays most of the total federal income tax (which he stated) by using data that excludes the portion of that tax paid mostly by the lower 95%.
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Why don't you quote my post where I said what you claim I did

everyone else knows that I said FEDERAL INCOME TAX
 
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