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Patients Pay Before Seeing Doctor as Deductibles Spread

MaggieD said:
Why won't it stop them? Would you rather pay $30 up front or $1,500?
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With respect, you are applying logic to the situation. The rhetoric to advance the ACA was that folks were going to the ER and not paying anything. Considering this the $30 or $1,500 is irrelevant...
 
Summerwind said:
Really all I have to do is repeat what I already posted. Nothing compelling here, same ol' proof that you don't want solutions, you just want to bitch, and do it completely inanely.
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Then you are wrong. What you posted showed you were ignorant of the actual situation doctors face in the current medicare situation. I educated you as to the reality of it. You may hold your hands over you ears and scream out LA LA LA all you want, but it will only serve to keep you in ignorance.
 
MaggieD said:
Your link says the trend is spreading to ERs. What the HELL am I missing??
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you cant be turned away in an emergency room because the lack of being able to pay upfront
 
trfjr said:
and you want to scold others for not reading when you don't even read what you quoted
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Gee, do you suppose it's just possible that as I'm the one who cut and pasted that paragraph that just maybe I read that too? Talking about what is "likely" is regular news fluff. It doesn't mean mean anything.

And you ignored the point of the post, which is that this was happening before Obamacare.
 
MaggieD said:
Are you posting this as if it's bad news? That would be good news. Emergency rooms are ridiculously over-used. If people have to pay up in advance, they'll make an appointment with their doctor -- or, YIKES! get a family doctor.

I've had the misfortune of having to use the ER on four occasions in the last six years...for genuine pain-threshhold-ten emergencies. Somebody's there because his foot cast itches...a kid with a sore throat who's running around the waiting area...dozens of people looking just fine patiently waiting for ER care. More convenient at night is my guess. That's simply GOT to change.

Large deductibles are a good thing.
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My understanding is that there are no subsidies for deductibles. Is that correct. If so it seems like a big obstacle for poor people.

My prediction has been that the ACA would not improve the lot of poor people. They still would have to seek care in over-crowded county hospitals because they can't afford the out of pocket expenses. The only difference it will make to them is in terms of which entity foots the bill-- an insurance company or the county -- for a catastrophic illness.
 
trfjr said:
or pay $0 up front at the emergency room?
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That's not quite accurate. The emergency room admitting personnel do everything they can to secure payment beforehand. If you demonstrate you cannot pay, they ensure they have all the info needed to bill you. Just like any other bill for services they've already secured from you a signed promise to pay and you are on the hook for that. If you don't pay they'll keep coming after you with all legal recourse just like any other bill for services.

The condition you note, outside of folks who are judgement proof, is either pay the $30 deductible at the doctor's office or promise to pay the $1500 (?) bill at a later time.
 
Cardinal said:
Gee, do you suppose it's just possible that as I'm the one who cut and pasted that paragraph that just maybe I read that too? Talking about what is "likely" is regular news fluff. It doesn't mean mean anything.

And you ignored the point of the post, which is that this was happening before Obamacare.
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No, you are correct but the point of the post was different. There seems to be a belief that with PPACA all anyone has to do is pay a premium (possibly with assistance of subsidy) and all is good. MANY of those uninsured were so due to inability to afford coverage. Now they must come up with premium, co-pay AND deductible the sum of which they couldn't afford prior.

Yes it has always been my experience that both co-pays and deductible be paid (or at least arranged for payment) prior to non-emergency services.
 
clownboy said:
That's not quite accurate. The emergency room admitting personnel do everything they can to secure payment beforehand. If you demonstrate you cannot pay, they ensure they have all the info needed to bill you. Just like any other bill for services they've already secured from you a signed promise to pay and you are on the hook for that. If you don't pay they'll keep coming after you with all legal recourse just like any other bill for services.

The condition you note, outside of folks who are judgement proof, is either pay the $30 deductible at the doctor's office or promise to pay the $1500 (?) bill at a later time.
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cant get blood out of a turnip. if people don't have the foresight to pay 30 dollars upfront do you think they are concerned about 1500 they are asked to pay later
 
We're already seeing that Obamacare is not going to help poor people any more or less than before.

It was never meant to.

It's just another disguised way to raise taxes, at the expense of our healthcare system. It promises the poor and minorities things that will never be delivered, as the Democrats always do.
 
trfjr said:
cant get blood out of a turnip. if people don't have the foresight to pay 30 dollars upfront do you think they are concerned about 1500 they are asked to pay later
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No, but you can get the turnip juice you were after in the first place by squeezing the thing. And you betcha most folks are concerned about the $1500 they now owe. They just feel they have no other alternative than to go further in debt at that point. And no asking is involved. They make a legal promise and then comes the demand for payment and all that normally ensues when one refuses such demand (liens, garnishments, collection agencies and the end of your credit rating forever). But that's not the issue.

The issue is that because they are without the resources to pay the $30 upfront and letting the insurance do the rest, they resort to the immediacy of the emergency room which will require they pay up to their entire deductible ($1500 for this example sake). Like a modified Wimpy, "I'll pay you for 100 hamburgers on Tuesday for a hamburger today".
 
Dickieboy said:
No, you are correct but the point of the post was different. There seems to be a belief that with PPACA all anyone has to do is pay a premium (possibly with assistance of subsidy) and all is good. MANY of those uninsured were so due to inability to afford coverage. Now they must come up with premium, co-pay AND deductible the sum of which they couldn't afford prior.

Yes it has always been my experience that both co-pays and deductible be paid (or at least arranged for payment) prior to non-emergency services.
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My point was that this phenomenon is not new, let alone actually caused by the PPACA.

What else is new. If we wanted to solve most of our current problems we would have universal health care. The common theme you'll find from us wacky liberals is not that the PPACA solves everything but that it's better than what existed before it.
 
Cardinal said:
My point was that this phenomenon is not new, let alone actually caused by the PPACA.

What what else is new. If we wanted to solve most of our current problems we would have universal health care.
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Honestly, I was willing to try that here (UHC), even though I doubted it would work. However, you can thank Obama for taking that off the table entirely. Part of the agreement he made with insurance execs in trade for their support of the legislation.
 
clownboy said:
Honestly, I was willing to try that here (UHC), even though I doubted it would work. However, you can thank Obama for taking that off the table entirely. Part of the agreement he made with insurance execs in trade for their support of the legislation.
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I don't think anyone is entirely happy with PPACA, it's just meant to be better than what came before it. At least it expands coverage to 16 million more people (so I read), and eliminates cutting people off for pre-existing conditions as well as eliminating kicking people off for getting sick, all real problems.
 
The second-lowest tier of Obamacare plans in California, for example, carries a $2,000 annual deductible.
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Boo-hoo-hoo. The lowest premium plan offered through my employer has had a $2,500 deductible since before the ACA came into existence. What are people expecting? These are plans offered by private sector insurance companies.
 
Summerwind said:
Since Obamacare doesn't start till Jan 2014 it can't be the fault of the ACA or Obama.
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I had a thread on this a while back. My mom and dad both retired from IBM and are losing their old insurance due to Obama care. Her old doc won't accept medicare patients at all and the new one demands they pay the deductible up front and she will soon be on medicare instead of Kaiser. Thanks Obama.
 
Cardinal said:
I don't think anyone is entirely happy with PPACA, it's just meant to be better than what came before it. At least it expands coverage to 16 million more people (so I read), and eliminates cutting people off for pre-existing conditions as well as eliminating kicking people off for getting sick, all real problems.
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and those 16 million are sure lining up in droves to be covered aren't they? they need 7 million to sign up before Dec 15 otherwise Obama care is a bust
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I had a thread on this a while back. My mom and dad both retired from IBM and are losing their old insurance due to Obama care. Her old doc won't accept medicare patients at all and the new one demands they pay the deductible up front and she will soon be on medicare instead of Kaiser. Thanks Obama.
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Am I to assume that the "thanks Obama" comment was poking fun at those who blame everything on Obama? Because IBM has been screwing their employees for over twenty years now.
 
trfjr said:
and those 16 million are sure lining up in droves to be covered aren't they? they need 7 million to sign up before Dec 15 otherwise Obama care is a bust
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Way too early to say. Arriving at a conclusion right now is moronic.
 
Paying before seeing the doctor is nothing new. It's been going on for a long time and has nothing to do with the ACA. Go to any walk-in clinic in a high transition area, and you'll almost always pay the copay first (or whatever you have to pay). They have to do this because so many people come in, see the doctor and then be like, "Oops, I don't have my copay today! Can I pay it next week?" and then next week never comes.

Nothing new here.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I had a thread on this a while back. My mom and dad both retired from IBM and are losing their old insurance due to Obama care. Her old doc won't accept medicare patients at all and the new one demands they pay the deductible up front and she will soon be on medicare instead of Kaiser. Thanks Obama.
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I don't see how Obama is responsible for you mother being of age to enter Medicare, and it seems that's where your primary beef is. And from I heard, IBM was looking to unload that regardless of Obama care. My ex- is a mainframe guru and was at IBM for decades, they put us in Boise as a matter of fact. Anyway though he is independent-ish now, but even back 10 years ago it was clear enough that IBM was going to try to unload benefits for retired employees that my ex- set up considerable accounts to cover that day. Good thing he did because he needed that savings to buy independent insurance when he went independent. Anyway, you can blame Obamacare, but based on the hearsay I hear, and evidenced by what many other large corps have been doing long before Obamacare (abandoning the promises to retirees), I have no doubt it is simply the scapegoat for you and perhaps even for IBM.
 
Cardinal said:
Am I to assume that the "thanks Obama" comment was poking fun at those who blame everything on Obama? Because IBM has been screwing their employees for over twenty years now.
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They had great insurance through IBM for twenty years, it wasn't until Obama care that IBM and many other companies did this just like the "crazy right wingers" predicted would happen.
 
Summerwind said:
I don't see how Obama is responsible for you mother being of age to enter Medicare, and it seems that's where your primary beef is. And from I heard, IBM was looking to unload that regardless of Obama care. My ex- is a mainframe guru and was at IBM for decades, they put us in Boise as a matter of fact. Anyway though he is independent-ish now, but even back 10 years ago it was clear enough that IBM was going to try to unload benefits for retired employees that my ex- set up considerable accounts to cover that day. Good thing he did because he needed that savings to buy independent insurance when he went independent. Anyway, you can blame Obamacare, but based on the hearsay I hear, and evidenced by what many other large corps have been doing long before Obamacare (abandoning the promises to retirees), I have no doubt it is simply the scapegoat for you and perhaps even for IBM.
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Twenty years before anyone knew who Obama was IBM was shipping all their jobs to India. So IBM didn't need Obamacare to be awful, all they needed to do was continue to be the horrible assholes that they already are.
 
Summerwind said:
I don't see how Obama is responsible for you mother being of age to enter Medicare, and it seems that's where your primary beef is. And from I heard, IBM was looking to unload that regardless of Obama care. My ex- is a mainframe guru and was at IBM for decades, they put us in Boise as a matter of fact. Anyway though he is independent-ish now, but even back 10 years ago it was clear enough that IBM was going to try to unload benefits for retired employees that my ex- set up considerable accounts to cover that day. Good thing he did because he needed that savings to buy independent insurance when he went independent. Anyway, you can blame Obamacare, but based on the hearsay I hear, and evidenced by what many other large corps have been doing long before Obamacare (abandoning the promises to retirees), I have no doubt it is simply the scapegoat for you and perhaps even for IBM.
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Just a coincidence that IBM, UPS and others all did this as Obama care comes on line huh.
 
Cardinal said:
Way too early to say. Arriving at a conclusion right now is moronic.
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and your the type that will take the last bite of a crap sandwich before you declare it taste like crap. are you willing for this train wreck to drive America to its knees before you admit it is a train wreck. how much damage are you willing to ignore? what is it going to take?
 
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