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Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede[W:236]

Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

On the contrary, by challenging it they keep it in the news and make themselves look better. The longer the better.

you said it would look charitable. people don't look charitable when they dispute something like this
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

How is that relevant since from my understanding of what happened, the cards were receiving authorization electronically through the system without identifying an available balance. Therefore, Walmart was receiving authorization from the system.

That isn't authorization. It doesn't work that way. Legally, the retailer accepts on faith that what their system is showing is how much is in the account and that the EBT (government) will pay them back for that amount paid via the EBT/SNAP system. They do this because they have a deal with the government that says that they have access to their system for as much time as possible and that they can contact whoever needs to be contacted should the system mess up.

In this case, they knew the system was messed up, and instead of contacting the government or the proper group (Xerox, apparently), the stores took it upon themselves to accept the risk of not being paid for those purchases via the system because that is how the system is set up. It was all there in black and white, you simply have to know how to understand what is being said in that which I posted.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede


Not wrong. Right there in black and white. They accepted responsibility for the sales knowing that the system was faulty. If challenged, this is not going to be a win for WalMart.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

They look like their generosity was exploited/abused. It works.

lol, no they don't
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

You're not making sense. When the system is working properly, the cashier can reference the available balance. Hence it operates like a gift card and not your earlier comparison to a check or banking card. When the system went faulty, the cards were showing an unlimited balance. Walmart staff correctly recognized this as a failure in the system and contacted corporate.

You claimed this justified walmart facilitating charges to these accounts because it was not their responsibility. I pointed out this was helping to facilitate the crime, because Walmart had working knowledge of the system, showed they were aware that it was not working properly. And in similar circumstances involving a bank, per your previous examples, would also be liable. Being that they tried to knowingly exploit a system error for personal benefit, just like the welfare moops.




1) No, I keep pointing out walmart knew the system wasn't working properly, because anyone semi familier with the system knows EBT cards do not have an unlimited balance, and they contacted corporate about it.

2) No, I was pointing out they have access to the information on the card, like any other gift card system and that they can easily reference it. This was in response to you claiming walmart had no access to such information and could not know there was such an error (also ignoring the manager contacted corporate)

Go back and reread the discussion and familiarize yourself with the information available, as opposed to confusing yourself in an effort to justify the inherent contradictions on the point of personal responsibility and your various other positions here

After that, I'll be happy to continue this

No need - I'm not confused nor do I believe your contentions and as long as you refuse to move from those contentions, we really have nothing further to discuss on this matter.

Thanks for the chat and take care - we'll see how it washes out in the next few weeks.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Now you're just making stuff up out of your ass.

If the system wasn't accepting card payments, how did Walmart or anyone else find out that the cards had no balance limitations on them?

Show me one piece of evidence you have that shows the Walmart stores were accepting the cards without any authorization through the system when processing a sale. I'll bet you can't.

No, I'm not. I understand how that law was written. It isn't really that hard to figure out. I read enough of it. The store accepts the responsibility for any purchases that they don't know truly if they will be authorized because they have every opportunity to get clarification on it from the people running the system if there is any sort of ambiguity. In fact, the retailers can get authorized phones from the government to use just for that sole purpose of verifying EBT amounts and whether they will be authorized. It said it in that legal page I linked.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

No need - I'm not confused nor do I believe your contentions and as long as you refuse to move from those contentions, we really have nothing further to discuss on this matter.

Thanks for the chat and take care - we'll see how it washes out in the next few weeks.

No worries. Enjoy your day
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

That isn't authorization. It doesn't work that way. Legally, the retailer accepts on faith that what their system is showing is how much is in the account and that the EBT (government) will pay them back for that amount paid via the EBT/SNAP system. They do this because they have a deal with the government that says that they have access to their system for as much time as possible and that they can contact whoever needs to be contacted should the system mess up.

In this case, they knew the system was messed up, and instead of contacting the government or the proper group (Xerox, apparently), the stores took it upon themselves to accept the risk of not being paid for those purchases via the system because that is how the system is set up. It was all there in black and white, you simply have to know how to understand what is being said in that which I posted.

You can't be serious. Do you live in a cave?

Do you honestly think that Walmart or any other business accepts a card that doesn't automatically transfer funds into their accounts at the time of purchase and the business has to, at a later time, contact the government for payment?

If this is the system the greatest country in the world had devised, God help all of you because you're run by simpletons and idiots.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Are they fighting it? I figured they would, but hadn't kept up with whether they actually had yet.

These kind of legal matters always take a long time. When they announce a settlement, we'll be lucky to remember what it was for.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

You can't be serious. Do you live in a cave?

Do you honestly think that Walmart or any other business accepts a card that doesn't automatically transfer funds into their accounts at the time of purchase and the business has to, at a later time, contact the government for payment?

If this is the system the greatest country in the world had devised, God help all of you because you're run by simpletons and idiots.

Yes. In fact, these ones did it just a few days ago. They didn't get that money, they couldn't. It hadn't been authorized yet.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

No, I'm not. I understand how that law was written. It isn't really that hard to figure out. I read enough of it. The store accepts the responsibility for any purchases that they don't know truly if they will be authorized because they have every opportunity to get clarification on it from the people running the system if there is any sort of ambiguity. In fact, the retailers can get authorized phones from the government to use just for that sole purpose of verifying EBT amounts and whether they will be authorized. It said it in that legal page I linked.

that's how it works on most any card system. A charge is submitted to the entity managing the funds for the system by the retailer. the retailer later reimburses them.


That is why and how you can dispute something on your credit card. Walmart doesn't magically reach nto an account and take money out
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

that's how it works on most any card system. A charge is submitted to the entity managing the funds for the system by the retailer. the retailer later reimburses them.


That is why and how you can dispute something on your credit card. Walmart doesn't magically reach nto an account and take money out

Exactly. And it is going to be even more difficult to do so when the system that works these things is down, as the EBT system was on that day.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

If this is the system the greatest country in the world had devised, God help all of you because you're run by simpletons and idiots.

It's the same premise as credit cards, bank cards, gift cards, etc. With a "gift card" style system, the funds are just tied directly to the card, as opposed to an account, that the card gives you access to
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

that's how it works on most any card system. A charge is submitted to the entity managing the funds for the system by the retailer. the retailer later reimburses them.


That is why and how you can dispute something on your credit card. Walmart doesn't magically reach nto an account and take money out

Again, I'll say your country must be living in the dark ages if this is true - I just don't believe it.

When a cash or debit card is used here - remember, we're not talking about credit cards - once the transaction is authorized at source, the authorizing agent has committed to the transaction and the retailer has funds deposited into their accounts - it is instantaneous - it's called electronic commerce and banking - you guys should try modern technology sometime.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

And if Wal Mart had not processed the transactions they would have been accused of starving the poor.:peace

Or they should have allowed what they agreed to in their contract with the EBT provider, "$50 emergency". That is what they will be reimbursed. The rest is on them.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Or they should have allowed what they agreed to in their contract with the EBT provider, "$50 emergency". That is what they will be reimbursed. The rest is on them.

The question - which I haven't seen adequately challenged - is did the EBT card system authorize the purchases? From my reading, the system did accept the cards and approve the purchases - the glitch was that the system wasn't providing any balance restrictions.

Your argument would be valid if the cards were not being accepted, if the system was shut down, and the "emergency" fund system was in place. That is not what happened, as I understand it.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Or they should have allowed what they agreed to in their contract with the EBT provider, "$50 emergency". That is what they will be reimbursed. The rest is on them.

OK. They make out on the PR front regardless.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

The question - which I haven't seen adequately challenged - is did the EBT card system authorize the purchases? From my reading, the system did accept the cards and approve the purchases - the glitch was that the system wasn't providing any balance restrictions.

Your argument would be valid if the cards were not being accepted, if the system was shut down, and the "emergency" fund system was in place. That is not what happened, as I understand it.

No, it didn't. That simply isn't how the system works. It works where the card is accepted if the system sees that the funds are there.

In fact, this is the same way that someone could overdraft their checking account using their debit card. If you authorize too many purchases within too short of a time span, then you can use funds not in there because the systems haven't caught up to your purchases yet.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

OK. They make out on the PR front regardless.

I agree, to a point. It depends on how they handle it from here. I don't see this being a big PR negative for WalMart, specifically if they don't turn on what they have already been saying, that it was "the right thing to do". There legal recourse is to go after the customers, which would be legal, but then that would make them look hypocritical. If they go after the government or Xerox, they will in all likelihood lose and it will look bad for them. If they suck up the small losses (from what I'm reading, not even a million), they will look good to their biggest business, the poorest people. Now, for a while they may look bad to middle class, but it won't last long, provided they allow this to pass.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

No, it didn't. That simply isn't how the system works. It works where the card is accepted if the system sees that the funds are there.

In fact, this is the same way that someone could overdraft their checking account using their debit card. If you authorize too many purchases within too short of a time span, then you can use funds not in there because the systems haven't caught up to your purchases yet.

Again - on what backward planet?

Every electonic banking and/or credit/debit system in effect here in Canada functions instantaneously. Unless you have overdraft protection, you cannot purchase more on your debit card than you have cash in your account - and that is instantaneous. If you make a purchase on debit and then go to the ATM to make a withdrawal, your account balance available reflects the debit purchase you just made minutes ago.

I cannot believe that the greatest economy in the world, the greatest company in the world, is so technology dense.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Again - on what backward planet?

Every electonic banking and/or credit/debit system in effect here in Canada functions instantaneously. Unless you have overdraft protection, you cannot purchase more on your debit card than you have cash in your account - and that is instantaneous. If you make a purchase on debit and then go to the ATM to make a withdrawal, your account balance available reflects the debit purchase you just made minutes ago.

I cannot believe that the greatest economy in the world, the greatest company in the world, is so technology dense.

that's because your bank has put a hold on those funds, which is not the same as fully authorizing and transfering them. if you look closely at most online banking systems there will be listed a "balance" and an "available balance". The available balance is what the bank has calculated is usable by you, minus what is tied up in various transactions waiting full authorization. Your balance are those combined
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Again - on what backward planet?

Every electonic banking and/or credit/debit system in effect here in Canada functions instantaneously. Unless you have overdraft protection, you cannot purchase more on your debit card than you have cash in your account - and that is instantaneous. If you make a purchase on debit and then go to the ATM to make a withdrawal, your account balance available reflects the debit purchase you just made minutes ago.

I cannot believe that the greatest economy in the world, the greatest company in the world, is so technology dense.

Another thing is that although the numbers show as taken from your account, that doesn't mean they show as being given to the account of the retailer. This is especially true for something like EBT, where it involves government bureaucracy. It isn't a straight account to account transfer because they have to ensure that the retailer was only authorizing purchases allowed, in general meaning food when talking about EBT/SNAP. Although the system isn't supposed to authorize any other purchases, that doesn't mean it can't screw up.
 
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