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Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede[W:236]

Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Dr. Chuckles said:
1) why would I feel a need to lie to you? I don't care what you think

2) You can find numerous posts in this very thread where I clearly blame the moops and walmart. So if you could manage some higher brain function for a moment, you could tease out that your premise makes no sense

3) stop assuming people are like you and can't look at things honestly and with intelligence
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As usual, personal attacks are all you have. Just can't resist! Can you?
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

SmokeAndMirrors said:
First of all, show me this happens "constantly." If you can do that, answer me this: without demand, there's no supply, right? And what would the demand be for here?
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Proof positive that excess supply creates demand.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Grand Mal said:
WalMart is as guilty as the people.
"Lynd explained the cards weren't showing limits and they called corporate Wal-Mart, whose spokesman said to let the people use the cards anyway."
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I see, so WalMart is supposed to be like the government now and know every customer's individual financial status when they walk up to a checkout counter? Is that it? I guess you think it's okay too when a guy who goes into the bank and notices that he suddenly has $100,000 in his account when he knows he should only have $100 and he goes about withdrawing $5,000 and racking up debit purchases, right? The big bad corporation made him become a criminal, right?

And I'll bet you're just the type of person who'd be screaming about WalMart being prejudicial, beating down the poor welfare mom, if the story had been that WalMart refused to honor purchases from a card that was accepting them even if common sense told you that the card limits had a technical/clerical problem, right?

The problem with America today and much of western society is that too many people have "Obama syndrome" - nothing's their fault, somebody else was doing it too, or someone else started it, or he didn't know it was a problem, yada yada yada.

Hold people responsible for their crimes and their actions - anyone who blatantly overspent on their cards knew they were scamming the system and didn't care - same as the people looting stores and homes during Katrina and other weather emergencies. They should be forced to pay restitution, if it takes a lifetime, and they should be subject to jail time if their crime was particularly egregious.

You need to stop making excuses for bad behaviour.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

apdst said:
As usual, personal attacks are all you have. Just can't resist! Can you?
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no, I clearly debunk your logic, as well. See points 1 and 2
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

CanadaJohn said:
I see, so WalMart is supposed to be like the government now and know every customer's individual financial status when they walk up to a checkout counter?
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they clearly knew there was an issue with the EBT system since 1) they were showing no limits and EBT cards carry limits, and 2) the issue was pursued at corporate


Hold people responsible for their crimes and their actions - anyone who blatantly overspent on their cards knew they were scamming the system and didn't care
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I agree, but walmart assumed that the govt would cover those items and purposely helped facilitate that fraud for their own personal gain. Clearly both parties are at fault and should be held accountable
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Dr. Chuckles said:
they clearly knew there was an issue with the EBT system since 1) they were showing no limits and EBT cards carry limits, and 2) the issue was pursued at corporate




I agree, but walmart assumed that the govt would cover those items and purposely helped facilitate that fraud for their own personal gain. Clearly both parties are at fault and should be held accountable
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1. WalMart doesn't run the system, the government does - if there's a problem with the system, the owner/operator of the system is responsible for monitoring the system and closing it down if problems arise. Do you think VISA has such problems with their credit card system? Do you think they don't know when someone is trying to spend more than their limit allows? I don't know the details related to how this glitch was discovered or how WalMart attempted to notify the government agency in control, but I can understand WalMart saying that they will accept any method of payment that is accepted at source. To do otherwise is to set themselves up for lawsuits and other actions. For all WalMart knows, Obama may have decided in his capacity as King to eliminate all EBT spending limits during the government shutdown.

2. To think a $trillion corporation like WalMart pursues fraudulent sales as a means of "personal gain" is just nonsense designed to excuse the real criminals in the matter, those who knowingly overspent what they knew was their spending limit. I'll bet you those with the cards who got more than they should have were spreading the news around the neighborhood that everyone could get free stuff if they hurried and the immoral, criminal elements among them rushed to the store to get what they could in an attempt at "legal looting".

3. An easy way for WalMart to be held accountable, is for those who stole from the government to return the goods and have them refunded under the card they were fraudulently purchased under. You'll have a hard time convincing any honest person that WalMart conspired with criminals to purposely defraud the government.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

CanadaJohn said:
1. WalMart doesn't run the system, the government does - if there's a problem with the system, the owner/operator of the system is responsible for monitoring the system and closing it down if problems arise.
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are you saying if a similar issue arose with their bank card system they would not shut it down to simply avoid the possibility of not getting paid for those transactions? I think we both know the answer to that


2. To think a $trillion corporation like WalMart pursues fraudulent sales as a means of "personal gain" is just nonsense designed to excuse the real criminals in the matter, those who knowingly overspent what they knew was their spending limit.
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1) The reasons behind why they did it matter little to the fact that they did it.

2) how am I excusing anyone when I think they should be held accountable, as well?

You'll have a hard time convincing any honest person that WalMart conspired with criminals to purposely defraud the government.
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Yet that is exactly what we have, absent the appeal to popularity, or not
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I don't have time to read all this. Does anyone know if they have the ability to trace these people? These ppl should have their benefits stripped!
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Dr. Chuckles said:
are you saying if a similar issue arose with their bank card system they would not shut it down to simply avoid the possibility of not getting paid for those transactions? I think we both know the answer to that




1) The reasons behind why they did it matter little to the fact that they did it.

2) how am I excusing anyone when I think they should be held accountable, as well?



Yet that is exactly what we have, absent the appeal to popularity, or not
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1. I do know the answer to that - VISA would enforce their cardholder agreement and insist on payment for the purchases made by the holder of the card - they would have no legal means to not pay the company/business that honored the card. If the cardholder didn't want to pay for the purchases, they could return them to the store and have refunds credited to their account. Any purchases not refundable would be the sole responsibility of the cardholder for payment. Why should the EBT cheats be any different? Are we going to simply excuse crime by the poor now and affix blame on a business that accepted the honesty of the customer?

2. They honored the cards because that's their business. Perhaps you'd prefer that WalMart no longer accept the cards (bad for their business but also bad for the customer). As I said previously, how is Walmart supposed to know how much a person has remaining on their EBT card balance if the system doesn't tell them? Are they supposed to deny purchase of some items, perhaps baby food or medicine, or something else vital to the person and then suffer the outrage from the usual quarters claiming WalMart is badly treating the poor?

3. You're excusing everyone who purchased goods on their cards when they knew they didn't have balance available by suggesting that WalMart is equally or in any way culpable. If I go to the bank and deposit a check I know is NSF and take back cash is the bank equally or in any way culpable in my commission of a crime?

4. You suggesting that WalMart participated in a conspiracy to defraud the government would be libelous in most jurisdictions.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

CanadaJohn said:
1. I do know the answer to that
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I think we both know walmart would avoid even the possibility of liability in such circumstances by disabling the system, once a system wide error was obvious and known

Why should the EBT cheats be any different? Are we going to simply excuse crime by the poor now and affix blame on a business that accepted the honesty of the customer?
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1) I doubt visa would be willing to deal with a 100 individuals who might pay up eventually when they could pursue litigation against walmart for purposely allowing the situation, that they knew was in error, to continue

2) why do you keep pretending I haven't already addressed this point by highlighting that I am clearly *not* interested in excusing anyone, nor letting them off the hook? My answer was already given, long before you asked for it and will not change with endless repetitions


They honored the cards because that's their business. Perhaps you'd prefer that WalMart no longer accept the cards (bad for their business but also bad for the customer).
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1) it's to their benefit accepting the cards

2) don't have an ebt card so don't care


3. You're excusing everyone who purchased goods on their cards
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1) how am I excusing something when i am calling them to be held accountable for it?

2) yes, knowingly facilitating the fraud for their own benefit makes them just as responsible

If I go to the bank and deposit a check I know is NSF and take back cash is the bank equally or in any way culpable in my commission of a crime?
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Yes, if a bank knowingly accepts stolen checks for their own benefit they are just as guilty as you

4. You suggesting that WalMart participated in a conspiracy to defraud the government would be libelous in most jurisdictions.
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1) irrelevant to the discussion

2) you don't understand libel law
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I would just add that I agree in some regard that WalMart is to be held responsible due to the fact that ANY store manager knows when traffic at his store is up, way up. That call made to corporate was most likely something like this. "Hey Jimmy here assistant manager of WalMart LA, and we have a customer that is not showing any limits on her EBT card, but she has two baskets of groceries, what shall we do?" "Ok, well let them make the purchase, take care of the customer and we'll try and figure out what is going on" - "we'll get back to you but in the meantime honor the sales".

I'm curious what happened in the other 17 states where this occurred? Was this rampant theft isolated to LA? Are there more details here?

By the way, I say WM is responsible, but I am NOT excusing the behavior of the community at large. It was theft and there's no way to spin it.


Tim-
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Hicup said:
I would just add that I agree in some regard that WalMart is to be held responsible due to the fact that ANY store manager knows when traffic at his store is up, way up. That call made to corporate was most likely something like this. "Hey Jimmy here assistant manager of WalMart LA, and we have a customer that is not showing any limits on her EBT card, but she has two baskets of groceries, what shall we do?" "Ok, well let them make the purchase, take care of the customer and we'll try and figure out what is going on" - "we'll get back to you but in the meantime honor the sales".
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If it was a limited event this would be an understandable position, but they were litterally clearing out the store, and the issue involved numerous people. It's also hard to swallow that a walmart manager, or any cashier for that matter, would not be aware EBT cards have limits.

And the fact the manager felt the need to contact corporate speaks to the fact the severity of the issue was known
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Dr. Chuckles said:
If it was a limited event this would be an understandable position, but they were litterally clearing out the store, and the issue involved numerous people. It's also hard to swallow that a walmart manager, or any cashier for that matter, would not be aware EBT cards have limits.

And the fact the manager felt the need to contact corporate speaks to the fact the severity of the issue was known
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I agree with you. Like I said, but after re-reading what I wrote, I meant to finish my first sentence by also saying that if traffic is up, way up in this case, ANY manager would know it, and suspect something was up. Knowing that EBT limits were not working, and thinking they could simply rely on the word of some pencil pusher at Corporate would be a very poor management approach to the resolution of said occurrence. In that vein, yes WM is responsible, and so are the criminals that gamed the system.


Tim-
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Hicup said:
I agree with you. Like I said, but after re-reading what I wrote, I meant to finish my first sentence by also saying that if traffic is up, way up in this case, ANY manager would know it, and suspect something was up. Knowing that EBT limits were not working, and thinking they could simply rely on the word of some pencil pusher at Corporate would be a very poor management approach to the resolution of said occurrence. In that vein, yes WM is responsible, and so are the criminals that gamed the system.


Tim-
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seems we're in the minority here, tim. The vast majority seems to have a need to cast oneside inexplicably as victims, and the other as unforgivable fiends

And I really don't understand why
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

SmokeAndMirrors said:
I already explained to you one reason why this happens. You can be obese and malnourished at the same time. A lot of poor people in America are.
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No its called Overnutrition

In the United States, nutritional deficiencies have generally been replaced by dietary imbalances or excesses associated with many of the leading causes of death and disability. Overnutrition results from eating too much, eating too many of the wrong things, not exercising enough, or taking too many vitamins or other dietary replacements.

Risk of overnutrition is also increased by being more than 20% overweight, consuming a diet high in fat and salt, and taking high doses of:

•Nicotinic acid (niacin) to lower elevated cholesterol levels
•Vitamin B6 to relieve premenstrual syndrome
•Vitamin A to clear up skin problems
•Iron or other trace minerals not prescribed by a doctor.

Nutritional disorders can affect any system in the body and the senses of sight, taste, and smell. They may also produce anxiety, changes in mood, and other psychiatric symptoms. Malnutrition begins with changes in nutrient levels in blood and tissues. Alterations in enzyme levels, tissue abnormalities, and organ malfunction may be followed by illness and death.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

apdst said:
Not practically stealing. It IS stealing. Their benefits should be docked 25% each month until the overages are returned.
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I thought abuses to the system lead to possible criminal actions and a 3 years suspension of benefits.

Did that change?
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Dr. Chuckles said:
they clearly knew there was an issue with the EBT system since 1) they were showing no limits and EBT cards carry limits, and 2) the issue was pursued at corporate




I agree, but walmart assumed that the govt would cover those items and purposely helped facilitate that fraud for their own personal gain. Clearly both parties are at fault and should be held accountable
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This is new to me, please show me where it's been proven that Walmart did this.
 
Re: Walmart shelves in Springhill, Mansfield, cleared in EBT glitch

AliHajiSheik said:
I think you just did it again. I saw no mention of race in the discussion until you brought it up. If you can read the mind of the original poster, then your ESP is superior to mine. Aren't you one who complains that people infer things that you did not say? Seems unfortunate that you are doing that to others.
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It does NOT involve the use of ESP. Simply a recognition of the posters previous track record and political inclinations.

And I did NOT accuse - I merely asked the question.

But it has already been done by others. In post 20 - Apdst states that there would have been a riot had the store cut them off. Now just who is it that riots? Perhaps the same people that the right wing on this very site speculated would riot if the Martin decision did nto go there way. And again, we knew just what group those potential and predictedrioters woule be.

So lets not play coy here.
 
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Re: Walmart shelves in Springhill, Mansfield, cleared in EBT glitch

haymarket said:
It does NOT involve the use of ESP. Simply a recognition of the posters previous track record and political inclinations.

And I did NOT accuse - I merely asked the question.

But it has already been done by others. In post 20 - Apdst states that there would have been a riot had the store cut them off. Now just who is it that riots? Perhaps the same people that the right wing on this very site speculated would riot if the Martin decision did nto go there way. And again, we knew just what group those potential and predictedrioters woule be.

So lets not play coy here.
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Here is your question: "So very very predictable. How long will it take for the issue of race to rear its ugly head?" Unlike you, apparently, I don't spend any time trying to either read between the lines of what people wrote or trying to decode what the write into my language. I read what they write. If you have an axe to grind with someone, do it on a relevant thread. In the meantime, on this thread, you brought up race. As for your motives, perhaps it is you who is being coy.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

CanadaJohn said:
I see, so WalMart is supposed to be like the government now and know every customer's individual financial status when they walk up to a checkout counter? Is that it? I guess you think it's okay too when a guy who goes into the bank and notices that he suddenly has $100,000 in his account when he knows he should only have $100 and he goes about withdrawing $5,000 and racking up debit purchases, right? The big bad corporation made him become a criminal, right?

And I'll bet you're just the type of person who'd be screaming about WalMart being prejudicial, beating down the poor welfare mom, if the story had been that WalMart refused to honor purchases from a card that was accepting them even if common sense told you that the card limits had a technical/clerical problem, right?

The problem with America today and much of western society is that too many people have "Obama syndrome" - nothing's their fault, somebody else was doing it too, or someone else started it, or he didn't know it was a problem, yada yada yada.

Hold people responsible for their crimes and their actions - anyone who blatantly overspent on their cards knew they were scamming the system and didn't care - same as the people looting stores and homes during Katrina and other weather emergencies. They should be forced to pay restitution, if it takes a lifetime, and they should be subject to jail time if their crime was particularly egregious.

You need to stop making excuses for bad behaviour.
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Read what I wrote. I didn't excuse anything. And WalMart knew it as a screw-up and went ahead and took full advantage. You don't think they made out like bandits? Those empty shelves represent a big sales day, thank-you-very-much.
Maybe I should just post blanks for you to fill in so you can argue with what you wish I said. Get a little honesty, wouldja?
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Un biased said:
No its called Overnutrition

In the United States, nutritional deficiencies have generally been replaced by dietary imbalances or excesses associated with many of the leading causes of death and disability. Overnutrition results from eating too much, eating too many of the wrong things, not exercising enough, or taking too many vitamins or other dietary replacements.

Risk of overnutrition is also increased by being more than 20% overweight, consuming a diet high in fat and salt, and taking high doses of:

•Nicotinic acid (niacin) to lower elevated cholesterol levels
•Vitamin B6 to relieve premenstrual syndrome
•Vitamin A to clear up skin problems
•Iron or other trace minerals not prescribed by a doctor.

Nutritional disorders can affect any system in the body and the senses of sight, taste, and smell. They may also produce anxiety, changes in mood, and other psychiatric symptoms. Malnutrition begins with changes in nutrient levels in blood and tissues. Alterations in enzyme levels, tissue abnormalities, and organ malfunction may be followed by illness and death.
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For people in general, yes. But we aren't talking about people in general.
 
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