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Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

There is already a thread on this on the philosophy forum and that's where this topic seems to be appropriate. I don't see an article in the Blaze that isn't really a news breaking matter goes here. I also don't see anything productive coming from "debating" this topic as news or otherwise. Nor is Atwill the first person to make this claim and it seems he just rewrote a rewrite of a rewrite, claiming 1 new source. These type books and claims are common, such as the very old claim that Roman documents record Jesus as the result of Mary being raped by a Roman soldier.
 
Deuce said:
You could just as easily be describing Aerosmith.
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Perhaps you can thank God for Aerosmith. I certainly wouldn't put it past Him.
 
Risky Thicket said:
I've actually read the book. The argument is compelling and well documented. Atwell is not some half baked crazy who threw a bunch of crap together to pen a schlock based book.
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thanks for that assessment, Risky
is this a book you would recommend for an interested non-Christian?

currently reading Zealot and enjoying it
 
justabubba said:
thanks for that assessment, Risky
is this a book you would recommend for an interested non-Christian?

currently reading Zealot and enjoying it
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Bubba, it is. Atwell looks at the subject with logic and he documents his premise quite well.

As I said earlier, I don't have a dog in the fight, but having been born and raised as a Christian I grew up hearing one side of the story. The religious/cultural indoctrination is very strong. I fully understand why most Christians have no desire to question. It's as if saying everyone you know is wrong about a basic religion/cultural given. Ain't easy.

Be that as it may, I just never could get into the virgin birth, original sin, walking on water thing. Later I discovered most major religions had the same exact stories. There's nothing at all wrong with the lessons being taught, it was just that no religion had the market cornered on truth and goodness. Atwell must have gone through a similar process; I suppose most of us former Christians do. He does touch on the fact that the Jesus stories were often told hundreds of years before Jesus and attributed to other religions. We all know that anyway. But, Atwell takes it in another completely unique direction - and he ties it together well. It's no coincidence that the Holy Catholic Church is in Rome. ;)

How do you like Zealot? I haven't read it yet.
 
The Romans methods of control were not exhausted more than a hundred years before the height of their power in 150 AD.

The Praetorian Guard was the only physcological tool the Roman empire needed.
 
Erod said:
There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.
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Oh good, the 'My faith is better than your faith' argument. No wars have been fought over that one.
 
It does not matter as it all goes back to what someone once said, "if there was no god man would invent one". Think about that while gathering in all religions and sight one instance of proof of god and do not dare sight a "miracle". Show proof!!
 
rhinefire said:
It does not matter as it all goes back to what
someone once said, "if there was no god man would invent one". Think about that while gathering in all religions and sight one instance of proof of god and do not dare sight a "miracle". Show proof!!
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In reference to your post and your sig, if we assume that the Big Bang theory is a factual account of the birth and life of our universe, that all matter and time in our Universe existed in one singulariry, ( a point of infinite gravitational pull and zero mass ) then we can not discount the existence of a creator.

All scientist can say is that our Universe had a begining, and that a singularity minus even the dimension of time existed.

There is far too much order in our Universe to discount intelligent design and man inately has been trying to qualify that intelligence for millennia.
 
Wouldn't it be kind of funny if a Jesus of Nazareth actually never existed?

Like, this amazing story and all it has evolved into is all based on....mythology
 
StringBean said:
Wouldn't it be kind of funny if a Jesus of Nazareth actually never existed?

Like, this amazing story and all it has evolved into is all based on....mythology
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there are plenty of well researched debunkings of zeitgeist. FYI, it's great to be skeptical, it's another thing to claim to be skeptical and latch onto every hair-brained researcher with a theory that appeals to you
 
Well it was based on a poor script anyway. Superman was much better.
 
Though I am very skeptical of the actual existence of a christian figure known as jesus, and i am positive that even if there was this guy preaching some of this stuff that the church and authors of the bible had little to nothing to do with him and it is all just a myth like zeus or any other god of the time. I have to say that as long as people are taking those stories to heart and believing in the loving caring jesus that accepted and forgave I don't actually care if they want to believe there was actually that guy. If they want to get into an actual scientific claim of that idea they have to face the standard of scientific method and peer reviewed findings. People believing is not good enough to get it taught in science class. Also, if they wish to push that belief on me they had better damn well have something better than the bible to back themselves up. It is far more likely that it is true the bivble was written by a group of people who saw the power religion held over people and used it to start up a religion that would empower them in the world. It is much more likely that happened than the son of god actually came down and performed miracles that have no evidence to support them, and even evidence contradicting them

The religious have to realize that they bring things like this upon themselves when they stray into the area of science. These things are not looked into because people hate christianity, but rather because they are treating the stories with scientific quests for evidence. If they want to maintain their faith with out this scrutiny they have to withdraw from scientific claims. If you want to go to your church and sing songs to god and jesus and uplift your heart and make yourself feel better about your place in the world and the universe I want you to enjoy. Even if you are fooling yourself as long as it stays personal and you are not giving all your money to a cult leader, or hurting others enjoy the heck out of it. I am even good with people coming over and inviting me to join them. Just take no thank you for an answer. Don't threaten me with hell because your argument sucked. Just go have some fun, and I will go have my fun. Keep it for yourself and not for me.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
there are plenty of well researched debunkings of zeitgeist. FYI, it's great to be skeptical, it's another thing to claim to be skeptical and latch onto every hair-brained researcher with a theory that appeals to you
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My arcane historian from 2,000 years ago is more accurate than your arcane historian from 2,000 years ago.

But, of course, I merely posed the question.
 
StringBean said:
My arcane historian from 2,000 years ago is more accurate than your arcane historian from 2,000 years ago.

But, of course, I merely posed the question.
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I'm not following. Zeitgeist can be addressed with well referenced academic sources
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
I'm not following. Zeitgeist can be addressed with well referenced academic sources
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Nothing more academic than the unbiased reference of a contemporaneous Roman historian.

Remind me where I can find that :)
 
StringBean said:
Nothing more academic than the unbiased reference of a contemporaneous Roman historian.

Remind me where I can find that :)
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You mean the guy who wrote this book? He's not a historian, and actual historians and bible scholars compare him to Dan Brown
 
Still doesn't explain why the romans made a sport of feeding Christians to lions .
 
Erod said:
Once upon a time, there was this atom. No one knew where it came from, nor did they know where the space it existed in came from. No one knew that there was this magical set of "rules" that made stuff do stuff the same way over and over and over.

Then, one day, the atom was walking down the vacuum trail and it bumped into another atom, and..............BOOM!

And that's how the flat screen TV and the internet were created. It's also where classical music and quantum physics were derived, not to mention the invention of peanut butter and jelly.

It was all just a big accident.

The end.
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What the heck was that? Very funny but also very random.

vasuderatorrent
 
AGENT J said:
while interesting this isne even the first to hear of this


what is a FACT is that there were other religions with the same basic story line, wise men, birth of jesus (or like character) BEFORE and DURING Christianity.

So with that fact the likelihood of Christianity being true/accurate is actually VERY VERY small and more than likely not true at all timeline wise/story wise.

but that does not mean theres no god and religion is wrong etc just the "stories" are greatly inaccurate and false.

I still have faith in my religion and its basic principles but unlike many i use my religion properly.
My religion is for ME and thats it, its a tool used to guide me to what i perceive as a well being.
It is NEVER used solely for pure judgment or forced on others.

Only complete morons do that and this common mistake is responsible for more bloodshed on this planet than anything else.
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In regards to aspects of Christ's life being in many other religions, if the gospel of Christ and knowledge of His mortal life was taught in it's purity from the beginning, then that would explain so many religions having similarities to the original.
 
laska said:
In regards to aspects of Christ's life being in many other religions, if the gospel of Christ and knowledge of His mortal life was taught in it's purity from the beginning, then that would explain so many religions having similarities to the original.
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You've got it backwards. Christianity was the last of a long line of similar stories, not the original by any stretch of the imagination. It's mythology just as the rest are.
 
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