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Republicans Lose Ground vs. Obama in the Shutdown Blame Game

failure? Equal rights for women was a failure? Equal rights for minorities was a failure? Calling attention to abuse was a failure? Helping the elderly out of the poverty that marked them prior to liberal efforts has been a failure? People live better today than ever before, and in part that is due to liberal thought.

As for parties, both republicans and democrats have seen success and failure. Today, our biggest problem is people like you who have such a limited view as to see things in only mindlessly simplistic terms of us versus them.

In case you forgot I don't deal with people who report others with the idea of generating infractions. Nor do I let the ignorance of the left go unchallenged. In 2011 the Congress of the United States increased the debt ceiling and the liberal rhetoric then was that the raising the debt ceiling wouldn't increase the debt. Well, guess what, another lie because the debt is much higher today and going higher all because of liberals like you who buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. Yes. let's raise the debt ceiling so we give the Congress more room to spend more. Liberal logic? Bye, Boo.
 
I have read the report, what really is sad is that you and others haven't and are incapable of adding up the direct and indirect costs. The real issue however is that regardless of the actual numbers 9/11 had costs that are included in the debt that Bush generated,

You are lying. The report details the costs of 9/11 to businesses not the government.
 
Liberalism (not talking Dem or GOP here), has given us equal rights for women, child labor laws to prevent children in factories as slave labor, equal rights for black and women to vote, helping the elderly. Yeah, those are all failures Con, in your eyes I guess. What you fail to realize is that BOTH liberalism and conservatism are needed. Not everything can be conservative and not everything can be liberal.

Yep, liberalism started out with good ideas but like all liberal programs go too far just like today but then again I forgot Conservatives want to starve kids, kill seniors, and pollute the air. Name for me one, just one of those liberal social programs that cost what they were intended to cost, do what they were attended to do, actually solved a problem, and didn't create a massive Federal bureaucracy?
 
Those were 2003 budget estimates. As in, this was predicted a decade ago, back when you guys didn't care about spending and deficits.

650 Billion of today’s deficits were already baked into the system a decade ago.

Incidentally, it's one of the main reasons I left the Republican Party.

What exactly has Obama proposed that has lowered the deficit? You think Obamacare lowers the deficit? Why is it that far too many don't ever learn from their mistakes? Why was the debt ceiling raised in 2011 and what was the commitment? Was that commitment met? Of course not or we wouldn't need a debt ceiling increase now.

What bothers me is that CBO gives predictions, Treasury reports actual data. Some don't understand the difference
 
No need to grasp for straws. Care to show any large movement from teabagger types of the GOP while GWB was on a spending spree?

LOL. The Tea Party gained momentum and spread in popularity because of Bush and his brain dead TARP. It was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. Of course when a bigger fiscal idiot was elected after Bush the movement continued to gain much traction. That's why the Obama administration felt compelled to break the law in it's prosecution of it. No administration in our history has been as hell bent on wrecking our economy as Obama and he doesn't want any group causing him problems.

But you can probably educated yourself somewhat by taking a visit to Wiki on the subject of conservatives. Be aware though, everything posted in Wiki is not true and tends to have a very left wing idiot bias. But it could be a start for you being you decided to close your eyes to history, at least before now.
 
There's nothing in here, not a single word, that I don't hear from Rush Limbaugh on a daily basis. Not one single idea that isn't just repeating what right-wing propaganda rattles out every day.

When you have 100 years of history of Progressives and a boatload of evidence that their policies are failures, it isn't propaganda. Progressives are great revisionists of history in order to validate their reformist theory, which asserts that socialism can be achieved through gradual peaceful reforms from within a capitalist system. If anything, the Progressive wears the title propagandist.
 
Really? So you listen to Rush Limbaugh? Interesting. Let me know when you are ready to admit that liberalism has been a failure then.

I listen to him at lunch frequently. It's interesting to do, because I find out what you think at the same time that you find out what you think. It's neat to watch the dynamics of it -- to see how he makes insanity sound reasonable, and then to watch all his little drones run out that afternoon repeating it all, all over the Internet. It's also interesting to see the specific mechanics of the propaganda: lies, ad hominems, red herrings, false dilemmas, equivocation, false analogies, strawmen and endless, relentless, unyeilding appeals to emotion. I can listen to him make all of these faulty arguments, stringing his audience along by the strength of the emotional appeal, then watch all the rest of the right-wing propaganda engine repeat it, and watch all the sad little drama junkies repeating it all over the Interwebs that night.

It's genuinely fascinating.
 
You are lying. The report details the costs of 9/11 to businesses not the government.

Hmmm, wonder if you understand the definition of direct and indirect costs? Do you believe that when costs go up to business revenue goes up to the Federal Govt? We all apparently are supposed to believe that lower revenue to the govt. along with increased spending is going to balance the budget and lower the deficit and eventually pay down the debt. Didn't read the report, did you? Well back to ignore for you until I get that apology
 
I listen to him at lunch frequently. It's interesting to do, because I find out what you think at the same time that you find out what you think. It's neat to watch the dynamics of it -- to see how he makes insanity sound reasonable, and then to watch all his little drones run out that afternoon repeating it all, all over the Internet. It's also interesting to see the specific mechanics of the propaganda: lies, ad hominems, red herrings, false dilemmas, equivocation, false analogies, strawmen and endless, relentless, unyeilding appeals to emotion. I can listen to him make all of these faulty arguments, stringing his audience along by the strength of the emotional appeal, then watch all the rest of the right-wing propaganda engine repeat it, and watch all the sad little drama junkies repeating it all over the Interwebs that night.

It's genuinely fascinating.

I find it interesting that people like you do not seem to understand that people can have the same ideology and philosophy without listening to someone else to tell them what to think. Guess maybe that is why liberals are who they are, thinking based upon what someone tells them.

Hate to tell you this but I lost my wife of 40 years on January 6. She was sick for over 5 years and during that time I listened very seldom to Limbaugh. In fact the last year of her life and this year I haven't listened to one moment of Limbaugh. I was a Conservative long before Limbaugh was on the air and remain a conservative today.

My suggestion is to stop blaming Limbaugh and others for Obama failures? Stop thinking with your heart and use that brain God gave you. Do you remember the 2011 debt ceiling debate? What was different then than now? Commitments were made then that haven't been fulfilled. What exactly has Obama done since that debate to lower spending and fulfill his commitment to that agreement? It is genuinely fascinating to watch the live for today liberals ignore the promises of yesterday.
 
What exactly has Obama proposed that has lowered the deficit? You think Obamacare lowers the deficit? Why is it that far too many don't ever learn from their mistakes? Why was the debt ceiling raised in 2011 and what was the commitment? Was that commitment met? Of course not or we wouldn't need a debt ceiling increase now.

What bothers me is that CBO gives predictions, Treasury reports actual data. Some don't understand the difference

This just in; there is in fact something harder than a diamond. It's a tea partiers head.

Only a tea partier could be indignant that the 2003 CBO could only estimate what the deficit would be in 2013. I guess in the TP world of make believe, you already know everything there is to know without having to do things like look it up, or think about it.
 
How does anyone deal with people like you who believe you keeping more of what you earn is an expense to the Federal Govt. and doesn't create economic activity that promotes job growth and GDP growth. How about it, Disney, when your paycheck grows what do you do with the extra money and what effect does that have on the economy?

I'm not greedy. I understand that the privileges and the freedoms that we have in this country are not free. I have no problem paying my fair share. I am fortunate enough to have been able to benefit from the resources that this country has offered me. I believe that it is my obligation to pay back into what has allowed me to get where I am today.

With people like you it is always Me ME ME.....
 
Didn't take long for Repubs to get the message from the Koch brothers on the debt ceiling.
Problem is, they can't get 217 Repubs on a cloudy debt ceiling with no Dems to help.
And they won't put up a transparent debt ceiling.
And 18 are having their "conversation" right now.
 
This just in; there is in fact something harder than a diamond. It's a tea partiers head.

Only a tea partier could be indignant that the 2003 CBO could only estimate what the deficit would be in 2013. I guess in the TP world of make believe, you already know everything there is to know without having to do things like look it up, or think about it.

Nothing wrong with estimates but what is wrong are people passing off estimates as what actually is happening. You see Treasury Data is like your bank account which compared to estimates is accurate. Do you not understand that?
 
Nothing wrong with estimates but what is wrong are people passing off estimates as what actually is happening. You see Treasury Data is like your bank account which compared to estimates is accurate. Do you not understand that?

Good god...

The 2013 deficit was predicted to be 650Billion in 2003 because of the policies enacted THEN. Fast forward a decade. We find that the 2013 deficits were 750Billlion. Most people would look at that and say, hey... Maybe we should have been concerned about this in 2003.

But not you. You want to give me a lecture on the difference between prediction and actuality. It's utterly mind boggling.

And FYI, 2003 was 10 years before 2013.
 
I'm not greedy. I understand that the privileges and the freedoms that we have in this country are not free. I have no problem paying my fair share. I am fortunate enough to have been able to benefit from the resources that this country has offered me. I believe that it is my obligation to pay back into what has allowed me to get where I am today.

With people like you it is always Me ME ME.....

Only a liberal who really are the most selfish people in this country complain about what others have or what others pay in taxes. Why is it that liberals like you never complain when those evil rich people give record amounts to charities?

You seem to be someone who wants to define fair share and that is the problem. You think it is fair for almost half the income earning families in this country to pay ZERO in net income taxes and then have politicians claiming that the half that do pay FIT aren't paying their fair share?

When backed into a corner it is always diversion, distortion, and claims of ME ME ME. What allows people to get where they are today is initiative, drive, hard work, and dedication, lost arts in today's liberal world.
 
Only a liberal who really are the most selfish people in this country complain about what others have or what others pay in taxes.

I've seen plenty of conservatives here complain about what others pay in taxes. Wasn't that what Romney's "47 percent" was about?
 
Didn't take long for Repubs to get the message from the Koch brothers on the debt ceiling.
Problem is, they can't get 217 Repubs on a cloudy debt ceiling with no Dems to help.
And they won't put up a transparent debt ceiling.
And 18 are having their "conversation" right now.

Ask "your" President what he has done to keep his commitments from the 2011 Debt ceiling debates?
 
Good god...

The 2013 deficit was predicted to be 650Billion in 2003 because of the policies enacted THEN. Fast forward a decade. We find that the 2013 deficits were 750Billlion. Most people would look at that and say, hey... Maybe we should have been concerned about this in 2003.

But not you. You want to give me a lecture on the difference between prediction and actuality. It's utterly mind boggling.

And FYI, 2003 was 10 years before 2013.

But the deficit wasn't 650 billion because policies changed, predictions are great but reality are the results. Using CBO numbers as reality doesn't create a lot of credibility.
 
Good god...

The 2013 deficit was predicted to be 650Billion in 2003 because of the policies enacted THEN. Fast forward a decade. We find that the 2013 deficits were 750Billlion. Most people would look at that and say, hey... Maybe we should have been concerned about this in 2003.

But not you. You want to give me a lecture on the difference between prediction and actuality. It's utterly mind boggling.

And FYI, 2003 was 10 years before 2013.

Just stop it

Obama's national debt rate on track to double - Washington Times

When Mr. Obama became president in January 2009, the total federal debt stood at $10.6 trillion. This week, it hit $16.7 trillion — an increase of 57 percent. In the same time frame under President George W. Bush, total federal debt rose 38 percent. Under President Clinton, it rose 32 percent.
 
I've seen plenty of conservatives here complain about what others pay in taxes. Wasn't that what Romney's "47 percent" was about?

That isn't what Romney meant and you know it but keep beating that dead horse. Doesn't really matter what Romney said today as none of what he has said is relevant to the Obama results
 
I'm not greedy. I understand that the privileges and the freedoms that we have in this country are not free. I have no problem paying my fair share. I am fortunate enough to have been able to benefit from the resources that this country has offered me. I believe that it is my obligation to pay back into what has allowed me to get where I am today.

With people like you it is always Me ME ME.....

It's one thing to want to FREELY choose and share ones wealth with others less fortunate. It is altogether something else when a government forcefully takes from another to give to who they see should be the beneficiaries. It's a blatant attack on liberties. In fact your entire ideology is based on trampling the rights of many to cater to a few.
 
I find it interesting that people like you do not seem to understand that people can have the same ideology and philosophy without listening to someone else to tell them what to think.

Limbaughs arguments are irrational and based on faulty logic. The glue that holds them together isn't logic, it's very powerful appeals to emotion. His rationales for his positions are so disjointed and insane that it's not possible that millions of people all happened to come up with the exact same thinking, and only tuned in to Rush to hear someone agree with what they already thought, anyway. When you have millions of people who all think the same thing, and there is no rational basis for it, that can only be propaganda.

The people who tune in are either too simple to notice the fallacies, or too dependent on the self-congratulating emotional appeal of the propaganda. They don't already "think" what Rush tells them, they already "feel" what Rush appeals to.

My suggestion is to stop blaming Limbaugh and others for Obama failures?

I'm not blaming Limbaugh for Obama's failures. In fact, you're simply repeating Limbaugh by saying that. Obama's failures are Obama's to own. What I'm blaming Rush for is the army of mush-headed zombies out there repeating everything he says without the slightest bit of critical thought.

Stop thinking with your heart and use that brain God gave you.

It's always hilarious when dittoheads and fox-fans say that. Their entire pitch is based on appeals to emotion.

Do you remember the 2011 debt ceiling debate? What was different then than now? Commitments were made then that haven't been fulfilled. What exactly has Obama done since that debate to lower spending and fulfill his commitment to that agreement? It is genuinely fascinating to watch the live for today liberals ignore the promises of yesterday.

I consider Obama to be a disaster, and he's caused me to completely lose what little faith I had left in the Democratic Party. I see him as being little more than a better salesman than Dubya was, but still selling the same products. He's no less in the pocket of industry then the GOP is, he's no less opposed to the over-reaching of the Federal spy agencies tahn the GOP is, he's no less an employee of Wall St. than the GOP is, and he's no less dedicated to American corporate imperialism than the GOP is. He's just better at not looking like a retarded cowboy while he does it than the last guy was.

That has nothing at all to do with the fascinating deftness with which Rush and the rest of the GOP's propaganda arm manipulate their soft-headed little drones.
 
Limbaughs arguments are irrational and based on faulty logic. The glue that holds them together isn't logic, it's very powerful appeals to emotion. His rationales for his positions are so disjointed and insane that it's not possible that millions of people all happened to come up with the exact same thinking, and only tuned in to Rush to hear someone agree with what they already thought, anyway. When you have millions of people who all think the same thing, and there is no rational basis for it, that can only be propaganda.

The people who tune in are either too simple to notice the fallacies, or too dependent on the self-congratulating emotional appeal of the propaganda. They don't already "think" what Rush tells them, they already "feel" what Rush appeals to.



I'm not blaming Limbaugh for Obama's failures. In fact, you're simply repeating Limbaugh by saying that. Obama's failures are Obama's to own. What I'm blaming Rush for is the army of mush-headed zombies out there repeating everything he says without the slightest bit of critical thought.



It's always hilarious when dittoheads and fox-fans say that. Their entire pitch is based on appeals to emotion.



I consider Obama to be a disaster, and he's caused me to completely lose what little faith I had left in the Democratic Party. I see him as being little more than a better salesman than Dubya was, but still selling the same products. He's no less in the pocket of industry then the GOP is, he's no less opposed to the over-reaching of the Federal spy agencies tahn the GOP is, he's no less an employee of Wall St. than the GOP is, and he's no less dedicated to American corporate imperialism than the GOP is. He's just better at not looking like a retarded cowboy while he does it than the last guy was.

That has nothing at all to do with the fascinating deftness with which Rush and the rest of the GOP's propaganda arm manipulate their soft-headed little drones.

When an Obot has to whine about Limbaugh you know he's lost the argument
 
Grendel;1062408027]Limbaughs arguments are irrational and based on faulty logic. The glue that holds them together isn't logic, it's very powerful appeals to emotion. His rationales for his positions are so disjointed and insane that it's not possible that millions of people all happened to come up with the exact same thinking, and only tuned in to Rush to hear someone agree with what they already thought, anyway. When you have millions of people who all think the same thing, and there is no rational basis for it, that can only be propaganda.

That is your opinion. I would argue that liberalism is irrational in that it destroys incentive and creates dependence. What do you think claiming that Conservatives want to starve kids, kill seniors and pollute the air is if not emotional rhetoric. You just don't seem to get it. I survived 66 years in this world, 35 in the business world and not one did I care about what someone else makes or pays in taxes. I always believed in the concept of personal responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor. My bet is that I give more to charity than you make. Rational behavior is one of rewarding positive results and correcting the negative ones.

The people who tune in are either too simple to notice the fallacies, or too dependent on the self-congratulating emotional appeal of the propaganda. They don't already "think" what Rush tells them, they already "feel" what Rush appeals to.

Again, your opinion noted but who are you to define all those that listen to Limbaugh. Why is it that you and others like you judge everyone else on your perceptions and your own ideology. I know this is hard for you to understand but you just could be wrong and need to learn to accept that possibility.

I'm not blaming Limbaugh for Obama's failures. In fact, you're simply repeating Limbaugh by saying that. Obama's failures are Obama's to own. What I'm blaming Rush for is the army of mush-headed zombies out there repeating everything he says without the slightest bit of critical thought.

I already told you that I don't listen to Limbaugh so if I don't listen how could I be spouting what Limbaugh says? What is it about holding people accountable for results that you don't understand? What is it about expecting positive results out of all that debt that you don't understand?

It's always hilarious when dittoheads and fox-fans say that. Their entire pitch is based on appeals to emotion.

You think terms like dittoheads and fox-fans is a positive debate tactic?

I consider Obama to be a disaster, and he's caused me to completely lose what little faith I had left in the Democratic Party. I see him as being little more than a better salesman than Dubya was, but still selling the same products. He's no less in the pocket of industry then the GOP is, he's no less opposed to the over-reaching of the Federal spy agencies tahn the GOP is, he's no less an employee of Wall St. than the GOP is, and he's no less dedicated to American corporate imperialism than the GOP is. He's just better at not looking like a retarded cowboy while he does it than the last guy was.

That has nothing at all to do with the fascinating deftness with which Rush and the rest of the GOP's propaganda arm manipulate their soft-headed little drones.

Good, so do I. I learned in the late 70's that liberalism had made a fool out of me. I learned to trust but verify and that individuals given the proper incentive and motivation can do almost the impossible. I saw that my hard earned money was being redistributed and that I could do what the govt. was doing at a lower cost and greater benefit. I grew up a JFK Democrat and have always been a Conservative. The Democratic Party left me.

I call actual results not propaganda.
 
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