Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

APACHERAT said:

That's the question I'm asking, how do liberals feel about the death of Gen. Giap ?

John Kerry is a liberal, can you deny that John Kerry was a patriotic hero of Communist Vietnam ?

Today Vietnam looks at Kerry as being a traitor to his own country even though Kerry was an ally of North Vietnam during the 70's.

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Wow. You have a very warped sense of history.

PeteEU said:

Fact is most wars are won in the minds of the people.. not on the actual battlefield, especially these days. Vietnam is such a war. Another is WW1. You should have chosen WW2,.. since there battles had more to do with winning than anything else, but even here the moral of populations and their willingness to go on despite the hardships were key to victory.

When the Americans entered WW1 both sides were on the brink of collapse. Especially the Allies were very bad off (historical documents clearly show this), with food shortages and resource shortages. The last ditch German offensive almost broke the back of the Allies and had the troops and population not known that many more US troops were on the way, then that back would have been broken. The populations in France and UK were very tired of war and the shortages were massive. The political elite had for a while fought against defeatist attitudes among the population but also among the military. There was several mass revolts in the Allied armies.

As it turned out the effect of the German offensive in 1918 was the following. It was the last ditch attempt to break the allies, it failed, and combined with the knowledge of hundreds of thousands of fresh troops and new resources coming to their enemy while they and their families were starving finally drove the German army to basically revolt and that ultimately ended the war... not a massive battle. The allies never really entered Germany proper, and only occupied bits of Germany. They never took Berlin, but the Germans almost took Paris..

Basically the moral of the armies and populations had far more to do with who won and lost in WW1 than any actual battle or battles. The only thing the battles did was contribute.

The Vietnam war was no different. The US won all battles basically, but lost the war because the willingness of the population to continue the war was gone and that happened after the Tet offensive that showed on national TV that the US was not invincible and even US soil could be occupied by the North Vietnamese (yes the Embassy).

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You don't get to cherry pick your interpretation of history. The facts are what they are and aren't imagined.

Morality Games said:

I don't know about "entire" hamlets.

It says 10,000 or so civilians got caught in American crossfire of large scale operations "intentionally or accidentally." Third-parties put the number higher, in the tens of thousands. For even the smaller estimation to work out, farms and villages would have to be targets.

The essential point is that we didn't play nice in our Asian theaters of war. "Nicer" than our enemies by a wide margin, but nothing like in France.

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Unless a target was in a "free fire zone" and no hamlets, villages or cities ever were except during Tet of 68, all fire support missions had to go through MACV and approved by the RVN government.

That infamous photo of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road with her village burning from napalm. No Americans were even in the area. The vill was napalmed by the RVN Air Force. But the liberals back home wanted everyone to think it's was the Americans who napalmed the vill. Liberal revisionism at work and looking at some of the post, it worked.

I'll enlighten you. Look real close to the soldiers in the photo. They aren't American but ARVAN soldiers. It was RVN Air Force planes that bombed the vill, not Americans.

Kobie said:

Wow. You have a very warped sense of history.

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Kerry was honored in Communist Vietnam after the war with a photograph hanging in the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum (formerly known as the "War Crimes Museum") in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon). The photograph, displayed in a room dedicated to foreign activists who contributed to the Communist victory over America in the Vietnam War, shows Senator John Kerry being greeted by Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam.




Photograph of John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam. Photo displayed in the War Remnants Museum (formerly the "War Crimes Museum") in Saigon. The June 2, 2004, edition of "Viet Nam News" is held beside the Kerry photograph to confirm the date the photo was taken. English-language placard below photograph reads: Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party met with Congressmen and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam in 1993.

APACHERAT said:

As Dean Vernon Wormer would say, "Being fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."The word was in use by U.S. Marines by the 1820's. America's first Korean War didn't happen until 1871. -> http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/173330-first-korean-war-1871-a.html The use of the word being used by U.S. Marines during the Mexican American War can be found in naval documents at the Washington Navy Yard and the California State Military Museum and also if you read either Joseph Walker's personal journals or by reading this book. -> Westering Man: The Life of Joseph Walker: Bil Gilbert: 9780806119342: Amazon.com: Books The U.S. Army didn't pick up on the term until soldiers were fighting alongside of U.S. Marines during the Philippine Insurrection. U.S. soldiers used the term in southern Europe during WW ll and they weren't referring to Asians. The term was used in the Southwest Pacific to describe the Solomon Islands not people. The term fell out of use by 1943 until the Vietnam War. Knew a Marine Sergeant who spotted NGF for the Australians in Vietnam and he referred to the Aussies using the same word. The term is a frickin U.S. Marine slang word, a frickin noun, a person, place or thing. It wasn't until the 1970's when the PC left started to change the definition of words to further their political agenda did the loony left decide it was a derogatory term. It's called liberal revisionism. BTW: Just a couple of years ago the liberal revisionist changed the names of one of America's wars. That's right, the Philippine Insurrection is no more. In the name of political correctness, it's now the Philippine-American War. I #### you not. Go to the liberal Wikipedia and type in Philippine Insurrection. I wonder what the next word that is on the PC hit list ? "Hold Down the Fort" ? That's right the Obama administration already has that one taken care of, it's now a derogatory term.

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You are just leaving a trail of rat droppings. You cite NOTHING to prove your point. NOTHING at all! The links are to amazon books but not what the quote.

You can make stuff up and claim it is the truth but you give no facts, like the word for country in Korean is gook. Migook for America and Hangook for Korea.

Cite ANY source for your claims...ANY.

The left didn't establish the word as a racial slur for asians. Unless you consider those who serve in uniform are lefties. :roll:

Wiki uses both terms for the Philippine war... I never knew it was only ever called insurrection, you seem intent on making everything a vast leftie smear campaign...

As far as your supposed Marine who called Aussies gooks, I know a guy who used the 'N' word for every race and creed he met if he didn't like them... your 'story' proves nothing.

You just wanted to sound salty and instead you just reminded us how out of touch you are in your own little world. I worked with several Marines, 2 Vietnam vets and one Gulf War... they NEVER used gook for a generic- 'different' term. It was ALWAYS about asians and not in a nice way.

APACHERAT said:

Unless a target was in a "free fire zone" and no hamlets, villages or cities ever were except during Tet of 68, all fire support missions had to go through MACV and approved by the RVN government.

That infamous photo of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road with her village burning from napalm. No Americans were even in the area. The vill was napalmed by the RVN Air Force. But the liberals back home wanted everyone to think it's was the Americans who napalmed the vill. Liberal revisionism at work and looking at some of the post, it worked.

I'll enlighten you. Look real close to the soldiers in the photo. They aren't American but ARVAN soldiers. It was RVN Air Force planes that bombed the vill, not Americans.

View attachment 67154701

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I don't know whom I disliked more, Marvin or Charles.

I think if I was around earlier in the war, I would have hated Marvin more... they're as useless as pedals on a wheelchair.

never did have to face NVA though, but I have a certain amount of respect for actual warriors.

notquiteright said:

You are just leaving a trail of rat droppings. You cite NOTHING to prove your point. NOTHING at all! The links are to amazon books but not what the quote.

You can make stuff up and claim it is the truth but you give no facts, like the word for country in Korean is gook. Migook for America and Hangook for Korea.

Cite ANY source for your claims...ANY.

The left didn't establish the word as a racial slur for asians. Unless you consider those who serve in uniform are lefties. :roll:

Wiki uses both terms for the Philippine war... I never knew it was only ever called insurrection, you seem intent on making everything a vast leftie smear campaign...

As far as your supposed Marine who called Aussies gooks, I know a guy who used the 'N' word for every race and creed he met if he didn't like them... your 'story' proves nothing.

You just wanted to sound salty and instead you just reminded us how out of touch you are in your own little world. I worked with several Marines, 2 Vietnam vets and one Gulf War... they NEVER used gook for a generic- 'different' term. It was ALWAYS about asians and not in a nice way.

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And you will probably remain one of the misinformed.

And that's how Obama got elected.

Now remember when you go out of your house and you tell your kids to hold down the fort while your gone, according to the Obama administration and the PC left you are a racist.

New frontiers in hypersensitvity: State Department officer says 'holding down the fort' is racist | The Daily Caller

APACHERAT said:

And you will probably remain one of the misinformed.

And that's how Obama got elected.

Now remember when you go out of your house and you tell your kids to hold down the fort while your gone, according to the Obama administration and the PC left you are a racist.

New frontiers in hypersensitvity: State Department officer says 'holding down the fort' is racist | The Daily Caller

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You got no cred on that, IMO. Your words in this thread have proven that you're just another hater who disparages people of color.

Thrilla said:

I don't know whom I disliked more, Marvin or Charles.

I think if I was around earlier in the war, I would have hated Marvin more... they're as useless as pedals on a wheelchair.

never did have to face NVA though, but I have a certain amount of respect for actual warriors.

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I was only involved in one operation where ARVAN was on our flank. I heard stories, way too many stories. I didn't feel comfortable with ARVAN even being in the vicinity. I'm lucky to have never having been attached to an ARVAN unit spotting NGF for. I would rather have been attached to the Marines 1/9 aka the walking dead. Those poor bastards, every time they went out in the bush it's as if they were magnets attracting large NVA units. You have to search hard to find someone who served with 1/9 who doesn't have the Purple Heart.

calamity said:

You got no cred on that, IMO. Your words in this thread have proven that you're just another hater who disparages people of color.

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And about every person I know of "color" would call you an idiot who plays the race card.

APACHERAT said:

And you will probably remain one of the misinformed. And that's how Obama got elected. Now remember when you go out of your house and you tell your kids to hold down the fort while your gone, according to the Obama administration and the PC left you are a racist. New frontiers in hypersensitvity: State Department officer says 'holding down the fort' is racist | The Daily Caller

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More CON game... stay on the topic! You are infamous for throwing crap and hoping it sticks, dodging the topic and dragging other crap in. Fact is you can't cite anything to back your claims what gook means. You used it as a slur, trying to sound all salty no doubt.

You tried claiming all manner of crap and as each got knocked down you fled. Now you want to try and move completely away from the topic and onto Obama... :roll:

It wasn't used to refer to the Barbary Pirates. It wasn't used in Europe. It was and remains a term to slur asians.

You can give no root or origin for the word... I can...

Migook and Hagook. Korean words corrupted by Americans as a slur for asians. Liberals didn't invent luke the gook. :doh

I'd say you have a full time job monitoring your own hate speech. As far as ill informed- who claimed there was such a thing as Commander in Chief 'regulations'???

FYI President Obama got re-elected because the Party of the angry old men drove people away. But please remain ill-informed.

notquiteright said:

More CON game... stay on the topic! You are infamous for throwing crap and hoping it sticks, dodging the topic and dragging other crap in. Fact is you can't cite anything to back your claims what gook means. You used it as a slur, trying to sound all salty no doubt.

You tried claiming all manner of crap and as each got knocked down you fled. Now you want to try and move completely away from the topic and onto Obama... :roll:

It wasn't used to refer to the Barbary Pirates. It wasn't used in Europe. It was and remains a term to slur asians.

You can give no root or origin for the word... I can...

Migook and Hagook. Korean words corrupted by Americans as a slur for asians. Liberals didn't invent luke the gook. :doh

I'd say you have a full time job monitoring your own hate speech. As far as ill informed- who claimed there was such a thing as Commander in Chief 'regulations'???

FYI President Obama got re-elected because the Party of the angry old men drove people away. But please remain ill-informed.

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Why not shut down your computer and visit a decent research library and expand your knowledge.

But then again you were probably never taught how to research history. You are forced to rely on others individual opinions on history. That's what history books are, ones opinions on historical events and people.

Now if you don't know where to go and what to look for on what history is written from, I could direct you in the right direction. In fact I already have with the politically incorrect phrase that so many libs got their panties all wadded up over. Funny no one got their panties all wadded up before the 1970's isn't it ? Why is that ? Could it be political ?

Which gives me an idea of a new hornets nest thread, Progressives Three Card Monte, how the left plays games with words.

Strategic mastermind.

APACHERAT said:

Why not shut down your computer and visit a decent research library and expand your knowledge.

But then again you were probably never taught how to research history. You are forced to rely on others individual opinions on history. That's what history books are, ones opinions on historical events and people.

Now if you don't know where to go and what to look for on what history is written from, I could direct you in the right direction. In fact I already have with the politically incorrect phrase that so many libs got their panties all wadded up over. Funny no one got their panties all wadded up before the 1970's isn't it ? Why is that ? Could it be political ?

Which gives me an idea of a new hornets nest thread, Progressives Three Card Monte, how the left plays games with words.

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Heya Apache.....no need to confuse them. I went with Pinning the tail on the Donkey. Not to mention the fun you have in stickin them anywhere else. Course don't forget to bring a donkey with ya to all parties. As there is never enough ass to go around. :lamo

notquiteright said:

More CON game... stay on the topic! You are infamous for throwing crap and hoping it sticks, dodging the topic and dragging other crap in. Fact is you can't cite anything to back your claims what gook means. You used it as a slur, trying to sound all salty no doubt.

.

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Try this crap, it the most credible source on American slang. Any large library should have all volumes but your only concerned with vol. 1.

This was the dictionary where I discovered that political correctness was all about revisionism, changing the definitions of words to further the radical lefts political agenda.

Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Vol. 1: A-G

Hardcover: 1080 pages
Publisher: Random House Reference; 1st edition (June 7, 1994)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0394544277
ISBN-13: 978-0394544274
Product Dimensions: 11.4 x 9 x 2.1 inches
Shipping Weight: 6.7 pounds

>"A fascinating mixture of the clever, the colorful, the crude, and the coarse, this first historical dictionary to be devoted exclusively to American slang has been in progress for more than two decades. Volume 1 of the projected three-volume set covers A-G; volumes 2 (H-R) and 3 (S-Z) are scheduled for publication in 1996 and 1997, respectively. In his excellent 27-page introduction, Lighter, a research associate in the English department of the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, traces the historical development of slang in the English language and discusses its sociological and cultural aspects. Following the introduction, Lighter provides a useful, annotated bibliography of significant books and articles dealing with American slang and an admirably thorough guide to the dictionary.
Defining slang as "an informal, nonstandard, nontechnical vocabulary composed chiefly of novel-sounding synonyms for standard words and phrases," Lighter notes that his intent in this compilation is to treat words and phrases that can be considered American slang, either presently or in the past. Therefore, some of the entries are for terms now considered colloquial or even Standard English (e.g., bamboozle, cliffhanger, dandy, flapper, fluke), but which were at one time viewed as slang. Other entries range from informal, inoffensive words and phrases that make our language more lively and interesting (e.g., can of worms, circular file, foodaholic, goof off, grungy) to terms that are generally considered offensive or vulgar, such as racial and ethnic epithets and expressions pertaining to sexual relations and body functions.

Entry headwords are arranged letter by letter (e.g., bassackwards precedes bass fiddle), with phrases usually appearing within the entry for the main word of the phrase. Abbreviated field labels indicating that a particular group of people uses the word (e.g., military, underground) precede the definition when appropriate. Usage and status labels are used to indicate other aspects of a term, for instance, whether it is usually considered vulgar or offensive or whether it is generally used jocularly or derisively.

The approximately 20,000 definitions included in this volume are models of succinctness. Following each definition are illustrative quotations, which are arranged chronologically, beginning with the earliest documented use. These quotations, which are the true heart of each entry, serve not only to document a word's usage at a particular time but also to further elucidate its meaning. Culled from a wide variety of written and oral sources, including literary works, popular novels, other dictionaries, magazines, newspapers, motion pictures, television programs, and anonymous conversations, the more than 90,000 quotations in this volume range from the seventeenth century to the 1990s. The degree of currency is particularly impressive since a number of 1993 sources, and at least one 1994 publication, are represented. A complete list of the approximately 8,000 sources cited throughout the dictionary will not appear until volume 3. This delay may prove problematic for users trying to locate the source of a quotation because titles are provided in abbreviated form. For example Nathan McCall's Makes Me Wanna Holler is referred to as "N. McCall, Wanna Holler."

While there is no denying that perusing the pages of this volume can rattle one's sensibilities, the increasing permissiveness regarding language in today's society cannot be ignored. Only a decade or so ago, many of the words in this work were considered taboo, not just in polite society but also in the mass media. Today the infamous f word and words and phrases of similar ilk are cropping up in song lyrics, films, television programs, literary works, and mainstream magazines. The increasing usage and heightened awareness of such terms are not only reflected in this volume, but also make its publication even more timely and appropriate.

When completed, Lighter's dictionary will be, without a doubt, the most definitive and scholarly treatment of American slang ever published. Most academic and large public libraries will want to add this work, since its historical treatment complements the coverage of slang terms in the Dictionary of American Regional English and The Oxford English Dictionary. Getting down to the nitty-gritty, Lighter evidently is cooking with gas because he has done a bang-up job in compiling this tome. In short, it's awesome, fantabulous, rad, the cat's meow! "<
Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Vol. 1: A-G: Jonathan E. Lighter: 9780394544274: Amazon.com: Books

apdst said:

You don't get to cherry pick your interpretation of history. The facts are what they are and aren't imagined.

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LOL you were the one that brought up WW1. Not my fault it is a classic example of how physiology and the moral of a population and armies has more to do with victory or loss than the actual battles.

APACHERAT said:

The Vietnamese and Chinese are natural born enemies with each other. Gook hates gook.

The war clouds are already forming over the South China Sea. The objective are the oil rich Paracel and Spratly islands that Vietnam, the Philippines and China all claim.

While our navy is being dumbed down and rusting in port unable to put to sea and fight, a naval war is brewing in the South China Sea.

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Nice to see the use of racist language.

APACHERAT said:

Why not shut down your computer and visit a decent research library and expand your knowledge. But then again you were probably never taught how to research history. You are forced to rely on others individual opinions on history. That's what history books are, ones opinions on historical events and people. Now if you don't know where to go and what to look for on what history is written from, I could direct you in the right direction. In fact I already have with the politically incorrect phrase that so many libs got their panties all wadded up over. Funny no one got their panties all wadded up before the 1970's isn't it ? Why is that ? Could it be political ? Which gives me an idea of a new hornets nest thread, Progressives Three Card Monte, how the left plays games with words.

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Why not cite ANY source, your links were as always bogus. You duck and dodge all facts I bring up like the meaning of the Korean words, and attempt to claim the word Gook was used when fighting barbary pirates! That some GIs used the word in France????

Fact is PLENTY of evidence supports the word as a racial slur.... IF you ever was overseas and near the pointy end of the **** stick I'm sure you heard the scream- "Gooks in the wire!" The guy didn't mean people foreign to us... :roll:

Trying to claim a word wasn't a slur before 1970's is ignorant. Once it was quite acceptable to call black folks the 'N' word. Calling a china man 'chink' was acceptable.

It isn't a matter of politics, it is a matter of respect... something CONs I guess is 'gook' to them.

Three card monte vs CON games... your attempt to say there are Commander in Chief regs falls in the latter. eace

PeteEU said:

LOL you were the one that brought up WW1. Not my fault it is a classic example of how physiology and the moral of a population and armies has more to do with victory or loss than the actual battles.

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Are you claiming the Allies lost WW1.

notquiteright said:

Why not cite ANY source, your links were as always bogus. You duck and dodge all facts I bring up like the meaning of the Korean words, and attempt to claim the word Gook was used when fighting barbary pirates! That some GIs used the word in France????

Fact is PLENTY of evidence supports the word as a racial slur.... IF you ever was overseas and near the pointy end of the **** stick I'm sure you heard the scream- "Gooks in the wire!" The guy didn't mean people foreign to us... :roll:

Trying to claim a word wasn't a slur before 1970's is ignorant. Once it was quite acceptable to call black folks the 'N' word. Calling a china man 'chink' was acceptable.

It isn't a matter of politics, it is a matter of respect... something CONs I guess is 'gook' to them.

Three card monte vs CON games... your attempt to say there are Commander in Chief regs falls in the latter. eace

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Apacherat is right.


Gook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

apdst said:

Apacherat is right.


Gook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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You didn't read the source you cited did you?

First line-

GOOK is a derogatory term for for East Asians (especially Koreans) which came to prominence in reference to enemy soldiers. US Marines serving in the Philippines in the early 20th century used the word to refer to Filipinos.

Apache has tried to claim the term came from the Barbary pirate campaign, and it isn't a slur.

I gave the root of the word as from Korean meaning country. Hangook is Korean for Korea, and Migook for America.

I seriously doubt ANYONE but Apache has EVER heard a soldier use that term for anyone but a Asian and never as anything but a slur.

FYI Urban Dictionary and wikidictionary give a far more detailed description of the term and it's history.

But like I said, using a racial slur when looking at anybody is still using a racial slur. Calling a white guy the 'N' word doesn't negate the slur aspect. Some white guys might think it intensifies it a tad...

That white folks were routinely using racial attack words for other races and people back in the 19th century doesn't make it right today.

Some Cons may see that as some liberal plot, most Americans see it as growing up... eace

notquiteright said:

You didn't read the source you cited did you?

First line-

GOOK is a derogatory term for for East Asians (especially Koreans) which came to prominence in reference to enemy soldiers. US Marines serving in the Philippines in the early 20th century used the word to refer to Filipinos.

Apache has tried to claim the term came from the Barbary pirate campaign, and it isn't a slur.

I gave the root of the word as from Korean meaning country. Hangook is Korean for Korea, and Migook for America.

I seriously doubt ANYONE but Apache has EVER heard a soldier use that term for anyone but a Asian and never as anything but a slur.

FYI Urban Dictionary and wikidictionary give a far more detailed description of the term and it's history.

But like I said, using a racial slur when looking at anybody is still using a racial slur. Calling a white guy the 'N' word doesn't negate the slur aspect. Some white guys might think it intensifies it a tad...

That white folks were routinely using racial attack words for other races and people back in the 19th century doesn't make it right today.

Some Cons may see that as some liberal plot, most Americans see it as growing up... eace

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Yes I did read the source. Did YOU?...lol!

Mr. Invisible said:

Nice to see the use of racist language.

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Used more in line with the original definition of the phrase , it's strange and hard to understand the hatred that has existed for hundreds of years between the Chinese and Vietnamese people.

Would Gobbledygook have been a better choice of words ?

To the best of my knowledge the PC police haven't made up their minds on that word.

notquiteright said:

Why not cite ANY source, your links were as always bogus. You duck and dodge all facts I bring up like the meaning of the Korean words, and attempt to claim the word Gook was used when fighting barbary pirates! That some GIs used the word in France????

Fact is PLENTY of evidence supports the word as a racial slur.... IF you ever was overseas and near the pointy end of the **** stick I'm sure you heard the scream- "Gooks in the wire!" The guy didn't mean people foreign to us... :roll:

Trying to claim a word wasn't a slur before 1970's is ignorant. Once it was quite acceptable to call black folks the 'N' word. Calling a china man 'chink' was acceptable.

It isn't a matter of politics, it is a matter of respect... something CONs I guess is 'gook' to them.

Three card monte vs CON games... your attempt to say there are Commander in Chief regs falls in the latter. eace

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I spent the fist six months of 1970 based out of Hoi An which was the TAR of the ROK Marines Blue Dragon's Brigade. Care to explain why the South Koreans also used the term gook when referring to the NVA and VC ?

APACHERAT said:

I was only involved in one operation where ARVAN was on our flank. I heard stories, way too many stories. I didn't feel comfortable with ARVAN even being in the vicinity. I'm lucky to have never having been attached to an ARVAN unit spotting NGF for. I would rather have been attached to the Marines 1/9 aka the walking dead. Those poor bastards, every time they went out in the bush it's as if they were magnets attracting large NVA units. You have to search hard to find someone who served with 1/9 who doesn't have the Purple Heart.

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well, when we were up by Boom boom Rock, we only had to deal with them sporadically.. at Chu lai, they were up our ass non-stop.

we had a Marine K-9 detachment on Monkey Mountain that went on a day patrol with an ARVN platoon...I was in country for about 3 or 4 months, still a boot, still green as ****
we glassed them going out and watched as the entire Platoon stopped, stripped to their skivvies and sunbathed.
the Marines headed back and it wasn't 10 seconds after they came in the wire that mortars started fallin'..Marvin didn't even budge, they didn't even flinch.. they just kept catching rays.
that's the exact moment I knew there was something fishy goin' on..

when the Gunny tells me i'm heading out with them... I told him ok, but none of them would be coming back with me.
Gunny was squared away, he knew the deal... he let me slide.