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Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

j-mac said:
Thanks Agent....God that would have been terrifying....Can you imagine?...Man.
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no i cant, like i said per everything i read and the videos i saw IMO the bikers got off lucky, very lucky
some people try to say the driver was blood thirst but thats just dumb since he could have killed about 10 of them easy with 2 swipes of the wheel
 
AGENT J said:
no i cant, like i said per everything i read and the videos i saw IMO the bikers got off lucky, very lucky
some people try to say the driver was blood thirst but thats just dumb since he could have killed about 10 of them easy with 2 swipes of the wheel
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Absolutely, and the reckless nature of their documented ride, video provided earlier in the thread by Fiddy I think, shows that they were terrorizing the city. Up on sidewalks, riding on shoulders, inbetween other cars, and on the wrong side of the road. They were a safety menace....

But like I said, thanks for the heads up on the law, because I know I wouldn't have stopped either. But then again, I wouldn't have gotten off at 178th either, that was a traffic jam waiting to happen.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I ride myself, and also drive a car as well and have seen nothing like that..... The only reason why I could possibly think the guy was boxed in was because he was tailgating them or taunting them for no reason..... Can't say I have ever seen a group of bikers just provoke for no reason whatsoever.......

I'm pretty sure he wasn't just singled out for no reason.....
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Which doesn't mean there aren't some that aren't like you or those you know. That was definitely completely the fault of the bikers unless something else completely comes out. But I honestly don't care what that guy might have did to them that they took offense to, they were at fault. Nothing he could have done prior to that video's start could justify their actions.
 
j-mac said:
Absolutely, and the reckless nature of their documented ride, video provided earlier in the thread by Fiddy I think, shows that they were terrorizing the city. Up on sidewalks, riding on shoulders, inbetween other cars, and on the wrong side of the road. They were a safety menace....

But like I said, thanks for the heads up on the law, because I know I wouldn't have stopped either. But then again, I wouldn't have gotten off at 178th either, that was a traffic jam waiting to happen.
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ill see if i can find the article for you, its just i read so many and there are three threads about this it may take a minute
 
j-mac said:
Absolutely, and the reckless nature of their documented ride, video provided earlier in the thread by Fiddy I think, shows that they were terrorizing the city. Up on sidewalks, riding on shoulders, inbetween other cars, and on the wrong side of the road. They were a safety menace....

But like I said, thanks for the heads up on the law, because I know I wouldn't have stopped either. But then again, I wouldn't have gotten off at 178th either, that was a traffic jam waiting to happen.
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They appear and sound like a rogue "Mad Max" crotch rocket gang....

Using the word "terrorizing" seems excessive but that is exactly what they were doing.

I've never seen anything like that before...

 
Even the Hel's Angels are condemning the bikers. I can only guess they must be prejudiced against bikers. :roll:

Hells Angels rip biker’s highway beatdown | New York Post

Even the Hells Angels are appalled by a motorcycle gang’s savage beatdown of a father on the West Side Highway — saying the heartless brutes crossed a line when they messed with a family.

“That kind of behavior is unacceptable — and with a kid in the car, nonetheless! I have a 3-year-old niece,” said one biker who was hanging out at the Hells Angels’ East Village headquarters Thursday.

He slammed the thugs for taking the law into their own hands by chasing down and beating Internet executive Alexian Lien, 33, on Sunday after a fender bender on the highway.
 
As a biker, I have little sympathy for the group of bikers there. The guy who was initially hit was being irresponsible and an ass breaking in front of the car forcing the initial collision. Group ride or not, the bikers do not own the road nor have legitimate authority to stop traffic like that. Assholes like this give all of us a bad name.

Was kind of shocked to see it was sport bikes instead of cruisers though. Not the stereotype
 
Some information on the Lien's 911 calls have come out.

Before the beginning of the video - I wonder if the biker's realized and would explain why they were so aggressive towards SUV driver:
At that point, a series of 911 calls had already been made to police. The first was at 1:52 p.m., when Lien's wife told police that there was a large group of motorcycles driving recklessly.
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This is right after he hits the biker and before he takes off:
In a second call at 1:53, she reported that their car was being hit by the bikers. She said she was in the car with her husband and 2-year-old daughter.
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This is at their second attempt to stop - when the biker pulled the door open:
At 1:55, Lien himself called and gave police his current location. This is near where the door was pulled open.
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Obviously after the video had cut-out:
At 2 p.m., the wife told 911 the windows were being smashed and her husband was being assaulted.
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I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how people can support the bikers - including at least one poster at this website.

Edit to add link:
http://www.wibw.com/home/nationalne...s-took-part-in-motorcycle-ride-226601561.html
 
MaggieD said:
Ha! It just shows how unreliable eyewitness testimony is. I saw something completely different. I saw a motorcyclist deliberately slow waaay down right on the front bumper of the SUV and turn-around to make sure the driver "got his point." It was at that point that the SUV bumped the cyclist -- didn't tip his bike, by the way.
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That's what I saw. I saw this on the news earlier this week. I don't blame the driver, who had his wife and child with him, for driving over a few of them in an attempt to get out of the situation.
 
From what I can gather watching the video and having participated in large rides like this...

To start, it seems the SUV was determined to drive in the middle of the road. GENERALLY, the etiquette when there is a large group of bikes on a multilane road is to get into the right lane (unless you need a left exit for some reason) and give the outer lanes to the group of bikes. That said, it's etiquette, not law. It seems that despite being in the midst of the group of bikes, the SUV was simply wanting to ride in the middle lane and probably had been for a bit of time as the bikes ended up "Surrounding" it because they had to drive/pass on both sides because of where the SUV was driving.

It then looks like a few bikers become annoyed that the SUV is doing it, and one particular idiot seems to get in front of the SUV and preceeds to break heavily to slow themselves leading to what LOOKS like the SUV hitting the bike from behind (we don't see the contact on the video, but right up to the moment before it).

This contact would actually provide a reason why all the bikers likely finally stopped. While people in a group may be annoyed by someone with poor etiquette, the moment a bike is actually HIT (For whatever reason) it's likely to draw the attention of the entire group. Once it was realized a biker was hit, the entire group likely came to a stop to both give the hit biker a chance to regain control of the bike AND likely (wrongly) to give the SUV crap.

Now, while I think the hitting of the biker is the REASON everyone stopped...the stopping isn't really justified nor was the hit entirely on the SUV guy. At this point your probably having bikers talking/arguing with the SUV driver, causing him to be nervous, and leading to the whole mess that proceeds to occur.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I ride myself, and also drive a car as well and have seen nothing like that..... The only reason why I could possibly think the guy was boxed in was because he was tailgating them or taunting them for no reason..... Can't say I have ever seen a group of bikers just provoke for no reason whatsoever.......

I'm pretty sure he wasn't just singled out for no reason.....
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You're seriously naive if you think everybody else is just like you.
 
j-mac said:
This is a real problem...But it brings up a good question...When confronted by the situation of being intimidated by a gang of Motorcyclists, or even just a group of any kind, in a car, or what ever, do you have the right to flee the scene of an accident?
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Your right to self preservation exceeds your responsibility to sit and wait for the cops to document the accident.
 
Zyphlin said:
From what I can gather watching the video and having participated in large rides like this...

To start, it seems the SUV was determined to drive in the middle of the road. GENERALLY, the etiquette when there is a large group of bikes on a multilane road is to get into the right lane (unless you need a left exit for some reason) and give the outer lanes to the group of bikes. That said, it's etiquette, not law. It seems that despite being in the midst of the group of bikes, the SUV was simply wanting to ride in the middle lane and probably had been for a bit of time as the bikes ended up "Surrounding" it because they had to drive/pass on both sides because of where the SUV was driving.

It then looks like a few bikers become annoyed that the SUV is doing it, and one particular idiot seems to get in front of the SUV and preceeds to break heavily to slow themselves leading to what LOOKS like the SUV hitting the bike from behind (we don't see the contact on the video, but right up to the moment before it).

This contact would actually provide a reason why all the bikers likely finally stopped. While people in a group may be annoyed by someone with poor etiquette, the moment a bike is actually HIT (For whatever reason) it's likely to draw the attention of the entire group. Once it was realized a biker was hit, the entire group likely came to a stop to both give the hit biker a chance to regain control of the bike AND likely (wrongly) to give the SUV crap.

Now, while I think the hitting of the biker is the REASON everyone stopped...the stopping isn't really justified nor was the hit entirely on the SUV guy. At this point your probably having bikers talking/arguing with the SUV driver, causing him to be nervous, and leading to the whole mess that proceeds to occur.
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How many average people know this etiquette?
 
Zyphlin said:
From what I can gather watching the video and having participated in large rides like this...

To start, it seems the SUV was determined to drive in the middle of the road. GENERALLY, the etiquette when there is a large group of bikes on a multilane road is to get into the right lane (unless you need a left exit for some reason) and give the outer lanes to the group of bikes. That said, it's etiquette, not law. It seems that despite being in the midst of the group of bikes, the SUV was simply wanting to ride in the middle lane and probably had been for a bit of time as the bikes ended up "Surrounding" it because they had to drive/pass on both sides because of where the SUV was driving.

It then looks like a few bikers become annoyed that the SUV is doing it, and one particular idiot seems to get in front of the SUV and preceeds to break heavily to slow themselves leading to what LOOKS like the SUV hitting the bike from behind (we don't see the contact on the video, but right up to the moment before it).

This contact would actually provide a reason why all the bikers likely finally stopped. While people in a group may be annoyed by someone with poor etiquette, the moment a bike is actually HIT (For whatever reason) it's likely to draw the attention of the entire group. Once it was realized a biker was hit, the entire group likely came to a stop to both give the hit biker a chance to regain control of the bike AND likely (wrongly) to give the SUV crap.

Now, while I think the hitting of the biker is the REASON everyone stopped...the stopping isn't really justified nor was the hit entirely on the SUV guy. At this point your probably having bikers talking/arguing with the SUV driver, causing him to be nervous, and leading to the whole mess that proceeds to occur.
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I hope you are not justifying the bikers actions either before, nor during the criminal assault shown?
 
j-mac said:
Ok, but what led to that rider getting run over?
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Pulling in front of the Rover and braking while motioning the Rover to stop - while surrounded by all the other bikers.
 
Zyphlin said:
From what I can gather watching the video and having participated in large rides like this...

To start, it seems the SUV was determined to drive in the middle of the road. GENERALLY, the etiquette when there is a large group of bikes on a multilane road is to get into the right lane (unless you need a left exit for some reason) and give the outer lanes to the group of bikes. That said, it's etiquette, not law. It seems that despite being in the midst of the group of bikes, the SUV was simply wanting to ride in the middle lane and probably had been for a bit of time as the bikes ended up "Surrounding" it because they had to drive/pass on both sides because of where the SUV was driving.

It then looks like a few bikers become annoyed that the SUV is doing it, and one particular idiot seems to get in front of the SUV and preceeds to break heavily to slow themselves leading to what LOOKS like the SUV hitting the bike from behind (we don't see the contact on the video, but right up to the moment before it).

This contact would actually provide a reason why all the bikers likely finally stopped. While people in a group may be annoyed by someone with poor etiquette, the moment a bike is actually HIT (For whatever reason) it's likely to draw the attention of the entire group. Once it was realized a biker was hit, the entire group likely came to a stop to both give the hit biker a chance to regain control of the bike AND likely (wrongly) to give the SUV crap.

Now, while I think the hitting of the biker is the REASON everyone stopped...the stopping isn't really justified nor was the hit entirely on the SUV guy. At this point your probably having bikers talking/arguing with the SUV driver, causing him to be nervous, and leading to the whole mess that proceeds to occur.
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Seriously, you're faulting the SUV guy for his "poor etiquette"? I've never heard of this "proper etiquette". I'm only aware of a requirement to pull to the right when it's an emergency vehicle. How about the etiquette that you don't surround a vehicle and beat a dad up in front of his kid? The douches on the bikes wanted a confrontation so they made one happen. I don't understand sympathizing with them.
 
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radcen said:
How many average people know this etiquette?
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I've never heard of it. I thought motorcycles were subject to the same traffic laws as everyone else. Who knew we owed the duty to stay out of the lanes they want to drive in.
 
People seem to ignore the fact that the SUV driver was pulled from the vehicle because of this here:

....As the motorcyclist, Edwin Mieses Jr., was trying to defuse the standoff, the S.U.V., a Range Rover, accelerated suddenly and ran him over, the lawyer, Gloria Allred, said at a news conference. Mr. Mieses’ back was broken in two places and he also suffered a torn aortic valve and a punctured lung, she said.....

sub-bikers-2-popup.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/05/n...emaker-when-suv-hit-him-lawyer-says.html?_r=0
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I have yet to see any credible evidence that shows that there was violence up until the point when the SUV driver ran into innocent people and their property while fleeing the scene of the initial accident.

Heaven help us if this driver ever decides he feels threatened while navigating the crowded mall parking lot or some other high foot traffic area, we could all be inadvertently run down and if we tried to stop him we would probably be arrested.
 
radcen said:
How many average people know this etiquette?
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Thus why I said I getting so upset as to do what the motorcyclist did is unreasonable and wrong.

People in DC, from my experience, seem to know this by and large because there's a lot f memorial rides in the area. I imagine it's less thought of in other places. Regardless, it's not unreasonable to be annoyed with someone...it's entirely unreasonable to hard break in front of someone, or stop traffic, because of it
 
j-mac said:
I hope you are not justifying the bikers actions either before, nor during the criminal assault shown?
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Not at all. Read all my posts in this thread. I'm not justifying it...I'm explaining how I could see events playing out based on the info we have mixed with what I know of biker rides.

It's reasonable that bikers would be annoyed with someone riding in the middle lane and not moving over

It's reasonable to think that annoyed biker could take that annoyance too far, and do the actions they did.

The actions they take in response to that reasonable annoyance were entirely and unquestionably NOT reasonable

It's like saying its reasonable that someone would be annoyed by a crying baby on a flight...if said annoyed person punches the baby, that punch is unreasonable regardless to the fact their initial annoyance was reasonable.

Reasonably being annoyed by something doesn't justify an unreasonable action in response. It was stated more to essentially present "motive" for what we witnessed by the bikers at the start of the video. Motive = a reason, not an excuse
 
Utility Man said:
People seem to ignore the fact that the SUV driver was pulled from the vehicle because of this here:



I have yet to see any credible evidence that shows that there was violence up until the point when the SUV driver ran into innocent people and their property while fleeing the scene of the initial accident.

Heaven help us if this driver ever decides he feels threatened while navigating the crowded mall parking lot or some other high foot traffic area, we could all be inadvertently run down and if we tried to stop him we would probably be arrested.
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You don't have to remain at the scene of an acceding if you feel in danger, and multiple dozen bikers illegally stopping all traffic on a road and surrounding you is a reasonable reason to feel in danger REGARDLESS of any other action they did or did not take.
 
X Factor said:
I've never heard of it. I thought motorcycles were subject to the same traffic laws as everyone else. Who knew we owed the duty to stay out of the lanes they want to drive in.
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Perhaps this is from me living in an area with multiple memorial rides and multiple sports teams.

Whenever one sees a clear and obvious "convoy" on the road, general road etiquette that I've ever been exposed to is to generally not impede the flow of that convoy if not needed. It's not a law, any more than provide space at a light for an individual in an adjacent parking lot to be able to pull out is a law, but rather general polite etiquette

That said, someone pulling all the way up at a light and blocking a parking lots exit doesn't deserve to be intimidated or their window bashed in...and neither did these people.

The initial annoyance of the bikers, IMHO, is perfectly valid

EVERYTHING after that point was insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for

If you're in a bar in Dallas, it's not against the law but it's poor etiquette to scream "**** the cowboys". It's entirely reasonable for some patrons to be annoyed at you. If a patron stabbed you for it, it's be reasonable to suggest that he attacked "was annoyed he said **** the cowboys, and then acted crazy". That doesn't change that stabbing a guy with a knife for bad mouthing your team is INSANE, it's simply suggesting a motive. Motives for crazy actions don't have to be sane, rather often they aren't. Thus the insane response.
 
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j-mac said:
This is a real problem...But it brings up a good question...When confronted by the situation of being intimidated by a gang of Motorcyclists, or even just a group of any kind, in a car, or what ever, do you have the right to flee the scene of an accident?
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This is why you need more than 10 bullets to kill a dear.
 
Zyphlin said:
Perhaps this is from me living in an area with multiple memorial rides and multiple sports teams.

Whenever one sees a clear and obvious "convoy" on the road, general road etiquette that I've ever been exposed to is to generally not impede the flow of that convoy if not needed. It's not a law, any more than provide space at a light for an individual in an adjacent parking lot to be able to pull out is a law, but rather general polite etiquette

That said, someone pulling all the way up at a light and blocking a parking lots exit doesn't deserve to be intimidated or their window bashed in...and neither did these people.

The initial annoyance of the bikers, IMHO, is perfectly valid

EVERYTHING after that point was insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for
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I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression and they did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal. Imagine how scared the wife and kid were too.
 
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