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Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

X Factor said:
I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression. They did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal.
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What the **** man. How about you read what I write rather than making a bunch of assumptions based on nothing but strawmen you're creating in your head.

NO WHERE have I said in ANY WAY that their "initial aggression" was "justified".

I stated I understood the group being annoyed with the SUV.

That's it.

Call me crazy, but being ANNOYED at someone isn't Aggression[b/]. The first act of "aggression" was the biker who got in front of him and then began to break causing an accident. You know what I said about that specifically in this thread?

Zyphlin said:
The guy who was initially hit was being irresponsible and an ass breaking in front of the car forcing the initial collision.
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The second "act of aggression" that was clearly seen was them stopping traffic. What did I say about that SPECIFICALLY in the very first post I made in this thread?

Group ride or not, the bikers do not own the road nor have legitimate authority to stop traffic like that.
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I then proceeded to call them all Assholes, and prior to that stated I have very little sympathy for them.

The second post I made, which you quoted, was me trying to essentially give my take on how the events likely begun transpiring because we don't actually get to see that for the most part. The suggestion that the bikers were annoyed with the SUV not getting over was not an EXCUSE for the bikers nor in any way, shape, or form a statement that their actions were justified. Their actions ranged from highly reckless to outright felonious. It was simply trying to provide a hypothesis as to why they began making their aggressive actions to begin with.

If a police officer suggests that a woman stabbed her husband because she was (wrongly) paranoid that he was cheating on her, are you suggesting the police officer is "justifying" the woman stabbing her husband? NO, it's attempting to explain the motivation for why she did what she did.

If you want to believe the bikers just RANDOMLY decided to slam their breaks on in front of the guy, be my guest. Based on my previous experience and what I've seen on the videos, I HIGHLY doubt that's the case. I think they likely did it because they were annoyed at the SUV driver, and then proceeded to take that reasonable (imho) annoyance to completely unacceptable and unreasonable lengths with their wreckless and criminal behavior.

But me stating I can understand them being ANNOYED is in no way, shape, or form justifying or excusing their AGGRESSION when I've REPEATEDLY stated that I disagree with and condemn their ACTIONS.
 
X Factor said:
I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression and they did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal. Imagine how scared the wife and kid were too.
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His window was broken when he was caught (after he ran over and seriously injured a motorcylist).

His flat tire could very well have occoured from running over those pointy motorcycles and Edwin Mieses.



The drivers window is clearly being broken near the end of the video above.
 
Zyphlin said:
What the **** man. How about you read what I write rather than making a bunch of assumptions based on nothing but strawmen you're creating in your head.

NO WHERE have I said in ANY WAY that their "initial aggression" was "justified".

I stated I understood the group being annoyed with the SUV.

That's it.

Call me crazy, but being ANNOYED at someone isn't Aggression[b/]. The first act of "aggression" was the biker who got in front of him and then began to break causing an accident. You know what I said about that specifically in this thread?



The second "act of aggression" that was clearly seen was them stopping traffic. What did I say about that SPECIFICALLY in the very first post I made in this thread?



I then proceeded to call them all Assholes, and prior to that stated I have very little sympathy for them.

The second post I made, which you quoted, was me trying to essentially give my take on how the events likely begun transpiring because we don't actually get to see that for the most part. The suggestion that the bikers were annoyed with the SUV not getting over was not an EXCUSE for the bikers nor in any way, shape, or form a statement that their actions were justified. Their actions ranged from highly reckless to outright felonious. It was simply trying to provide a hypothesis as to why they began making their aggressive actions to begin with.

If a police officer suggests that a woman stabbed her husband because she was (wrongly) paranoid that he was cheating on her, are you suggesting the police officer is "justifying" the woman stabbing her husband? NO, it's attempting to explain the motivation for why she did what she did.

If you want to believe the bikers just RANDOMLY decided to slam their breaks on in front of the guy, be my guest. Based on my previous experience and what I've seen on the videos, I HIGHLY doubt that's the case. I think they likely did it because they were annoyed at the SUV driver, and then proceeded to take that reasonable (imho) annoyance to completely unacceptable and unreasonable lengths with their wreckless and criminal behavior.

But me stating I can understand them being ANNOYED is in no way, shape, or form justifying or excusing their AGGRESSION when I've REPEATEDLY stated that I disagree with and condemn their ACTIONS.
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I think initially surrounding the SUV was aggressive. Maybe you can't imagine bikers in a group trying to act like badasses in front of their friends and harassing someone and wanting a confrontation but I've seen it many times (not just with bikers). You said that the initial collision wasn't "all" the SUV drivers fault indicating that he is somewhat to blame (for his unreasonable insistence on driving in the center lane, I suppose). I just don't see it that way.
 
Utility Man said:
His window was broken when he was caught (after he ran over and seriously injured a motorcylist).

His flat tire could very well have occoured from running over those pointy motorcycles and Edwin Mieses.



The drivers window is clearly being broken near the end of the video above.
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I think the SUV drivers actions were reasonable self defense. You aggressively surround someone, force them to stop and out number them a dozen (or however many) to one, it's reasonable of them to try to get out of that situation regardless of who's trying to keep them there. I don't carry a gun in my car, but the video makes me think maybe I should.
 
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Zyphlin said:
You don't have to remain at the scene of an acceding if you feel in danger, and multiple dozen bikers illegally stopping all traffic on a road and surrounding you is a reasonable reason to feel in danger REGARDLESS of any other action they did or did not take.
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So if you get in an accident and a crowd gathers(you sense danger),you have the right to run over other bystanders to make a getaway....just lovely.
 
Utility Man said:
So if you get in an accident and a crowd gathers(you sense danger),you have the right to run over other bystanders to make a getaway....just lovely.
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Depends on what the crowd is doing and this wasn't some random crowd, these douchebags were part of the altercation.
 
X Factor said:
Depends on what the crowd is doing and this wasn't some random crowd, these douchebags were part of the altercation.
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agreed

and the story goes that they were beating on the truck and tires, that really cant be seen but at the 29/30sec mark there is definitely an aggressive move that can bee seen a hard pull at the door or swipe at the driver.


ive read about 20 articles on this now and my stance is still the same.

the bikers got off damn lucky, SUPER LUCKY actually


and if the guy was out for blood as some people say thats BS because with a two turns of his wheel he could of killed like 10 of them easy.


IMO IF the story was true he showed great restraint and i could only HOPE to have as much as he did until the end.

at the end the situation would have been very different if im the driver and thats my family.

In PA that guy beating my window with a helmet and the guy punching the glass where my kids at both end up dead since i carry.

now in NY i would have simply put it in reverse hit the gas and did a nice hi speed doughnut

there is no way in hell i would have ever, EVER risk them gaining access to the inside of my SUV with my family in it
 
Utility Man said:
So if you get in an accident and a crowd gathers(you sense danger),you have the right to run over other bystanders to make a getaway....just lovely.
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Well, it may not be a good idea to park yourself in front of a vehicle in the middle of the road after an accident. Especially such a minor accident. If your vehicle is functional, it's far safer to pull to the shoulder.
 
AGENT J said:
there is no way in hell i would have ever, EVER risk them gaining access to the inside of my SUV with my family in it
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That, to me, would be my greatest fear. I'd go to great lengths to protect myself. I'd go to even greater lengths to protect my family.
 
X Factor said:
That, to me, would be my greatest fear. I'd go to great lengths to protect myself. I'd go to even greater lengths to protect my family.
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yep me too

as soon as the helmet hit the first time and the glass just cracks some and then a punch is delivered to wear my kid is sitting ALL BETS ARE OFF . . . all of them
 
Utility Man said:
I have yet to see any credible evidence that shows that there was violence up until the point when the SUV driver ran into innocent people and their property while fleeing the scene of the initial accident.

Heaven help us if this driver ever decides he feels threatened while navigating the crowded mall parking lot or some other high foot traffic area, we could all be inadvertently run down and if we tried to stop him we would probably be arrested.
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Well, we have evidence of the 911 call prior to the driver running over mieses, in which they claim the bikers are beating on the SUV and we have the video that shows tire damage to the SUV that occurred sometime during the first stop. So, it seems to me it is pretty clear there was violence that causes the SUV to get out of there.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Not at all. Read all my posts in this thread. I'm not justifying it...I'm explaining how I could see events playing out based on the info we have mixed with what I know of biker rides.

It's reasonable that bikers would be annoyed with someone riding in the middle lane and not moving over

It's reasonable to think that annoyed biker could take that annoyance too far, and do the actions they did.
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In my opinion, the bikers most likely reacted int eh way they did due to two possibilities. The bikers were pissed that the SUV entered the highway in the middle of their pack, as he was in the way of them doing the illegal "stuntz" they wanted to do, or they had a suspicion/were aware he called the police and wanted to harass him for it.
 
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