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Negotations start this evening.

This is only slightly less stupid of a request. How well do you think insurance companies are going to do when forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and no mandate to push healthy people onto the rolls? That's your reasonable request from the GOP? :lamo

Well, at least you admit that your original post was based entirely on false information....
 
So because you think Obamacare will collapse one way, it's ok for the Republicans to deliberately accelerate it?

It's the difference between knowing that the cancer will eventually die when the patient dies versus killing just the cancer.
 
All 3 decisions were made in accordance to written law and the constitutionality of those laws in the times they were made. Do I agree that the right decision was made in all 3 cases? No, as time has told, particularly in the case of Plessy vs. Ferguson. But, particularly in the case of Dred Scott because it makes the point obvious, they ruled on a particular situation according to existing laws. Under the laws of the times, SCOTUS had to rule that Scott remain a slave, because the law was clear that he had no right to sue for freedom under the courts. Morally right? Few today would argue that. But that's not their purpose, they can only rule on and interpret existing law, which they did.

Do you feel that we shouldn't have a SCOTUS or legal equivalent? No matter how you set up the legal system, you will need a highest authority of some kind to rule on controversial and/or complicated legal matters. The SCOTUS exists by necessity. Unless you're willing to deny the need for a highest court in the land, you're just cherry picking. Or maybe we should just do away the SCOTUS and have those powers absorbed by mr. pres.

You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.
 
You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.

And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?
 
And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?

Correct. In both cases, courageous "radicals" stood up against the Democrat establishment and settled law approved by SCOTUS - just like the Tea Party is doing for ObamaCare. I would hope that a repeat of the Civil War will not be necessary this time.
 
Correct. In both cases, courageous "radicals" stood up against the Democrat establishment and settled law approved by SCOTUS - just like the Tea Party is doing for ObamaCare. I would hope that a repeat of the Civil War will not be necessary this time.

IMO, there was nothing in the Constitution that even justified slavery - let alone their offspring being de facto slaves...

As a libertarian I hold the Bill of Rights and constitution in high regard, yet many issues that were resolved via amendments never had to be because many were never the law of the land...

The philosophy of the Constitution is extremely interesting, the Bill of Rights is about as blunt as a Dr. Seuss book...
 
You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.

The Supreme Court defines tyranny.
 
IMO, there was nothing in the Constitution that even justified slavery - let alone their offspring being de facto slaves...
Agreed, but the legality of slavery was left up to the individual states and supported by the Dred Scott decision. It took a civil war to change the practice, which I hope will not be necessary to dispose of Obamacare. After the civil war segregation was left up to the states, supported by the Plessey v. Ferguson decision, and strongly promoted by the "progressive" wing of both Democrats and Republicans. In fact the original purpose of Planned Parenthood was to keep "our pure white society" from being overrun by black and brown babies. The elitist beliefs that justified slavery and segregation and eugenics are still with us, but the spinmeisters who promote these beliefs have become much more skilled at presenting their proposals to make the people dependent.
 
Agreed, but the legality of slavery was left up to the individual states and supported by the Dred Scott decision. It took a civil war to change the practice, which I hope will not be necessary to dispose of Obamacare. After the civil war segregation was left up to the states, supported by the Plessey v. Ferguson decision, and strongly promoted by the "progressive" wing of both Democrats and Republicans. In fact the original purpose of Planned Parenthood was to keep "our pure white society" from being overrun by black and brown babies. The elitist beliefs that justified slavery and segregation and eugenics are still with us, but the spinmeisters who promote these beliefs have become much more skilled at presenting their proposals to make the people dependent.

I understand your point but I have argued that the "Dread Scott" decision violated the Bill of Rights in the first place in several ways.

One of the ideas that concerns me the most is that the offspring of "slaves" were de facto "free individuals" despite legally claimed as slaves......

Forget the Tenth Amendment considering the other 9 Amendments trump the Tenth and considering no racial reference was ever made between Amendment's I-VIX.
 
You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.

And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?

Correct. In both cases, courageous "radicals" stood up against the Democrat establishment and settled law approved by SCOTUS - just like the Tea Party is doing for ObamaCare. I would hope that a repeat of the Civil War will not be necessary this time.
And therein lies the key difference between the abolishment of slavery and segregation with the rightwing attempt to unravel ObamaCare.

Both slavery and segregation were laws changed by the full House, Senate, and executive branch. In the case of slavery, it also included the states, which led to a Constitutional amendment. Like it or not, ObamaCare is the law of the land and the GOP is attempting to unilaterally enforce the demise of a law they don't like.
 
Both slavery and segregation were laws changed by the full House, Senate, and executive branch. In the case of slavery, it also included the states, which led to a Constitutional amendment. Like it or not, ObamaCare is the law of the land and the GOP is attempting to unilaterally enforce the demise of a law they don't like.

Just like Obamacare, slavery and segregation were fiercely defended by Democrats until they were abolished.
 
Just like Obamacare, slavery and segregation were fiercely defended by Democrats until they were abolished.

Again, the former laws were abolished through legislation. Republicans are trying to strong-arm the demise of ObamaCare because they have failed miserably at every attempt to abolish it through the legislation.
 
Again, the former laws were abolished through legislation. Republicans are trying to strong-arm the demise of ObamaCare because they have failed miserably at every attempt to abolish it through the legislation.[/]

And Obamacare will be abolished through legislation.

The battle ain't over yet... :cool:
 
And Obamacare will be abolished through legislation.

The battle ain't over yet... :cool:
If it is, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with a political party (any political party), resorting to blackmailing the opposition party to force laws they don't like, to be changed.

All it does is hurt the nation.
 
Just like Obamacare, slavery and segregation were fiercely defended by Democrats until they were abolished.

If only you understood the implications of your statement.
 
If it is, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with a political party (any political party), resorting to blackmailing the opposition party to force laws they don't like, to be changed.

All it does is hurt the nation.

LOL. But Obama and the Senate Dems "blackmail" of the rest of the federal government is fine. Because they don't want something changed that they changed, they hurt the nation and all is good.
 
LOL. But Obama and the Senate Dems "blackmail" of the rest of the federal government is fine. Because they don't want something changed that they changed, they hurt the nation and all is good.

They aren't blackmailing anything. They've offered clean CR bills, offered to negotiate on actual budget issues, even gathered some GOP support for this in the House.

You are objectively wrong.
 
Just like Obamacare, slavery and segregation were fiercely defended by Democrats until they were abolished.

Hey, kids, Diogenes got the rightwing memo on this! Like clockwork.

Meanwhile, the Democrats should negotiate. They should sit down with the tea baggers and demand a tax hike on the rich, a huge cut I military spending, the repeal of Citizens United, an excise tax on all financial transactions of the rich, and everything else they couldn't get in regulator legislation. No funding the government until progressive get everything they want.

Let the negotiations begin!
 
They aren't blackmailing anything. They've offered clean CR bills, offered to negotiate on actual budget issues, even gathered some GOP support for this in the House.

You are objectively wrong.

By the liberals standards, what they are doing is "blackmail". No getting around it. They get their way or nobody gets anything, according to what they have said and done.

Lets also not forget, when the Democrats were dumb enough to change the legislative process on Obamadon'tcare, they ended up passing it on a budget bill because they didn't have the votes the regular way. So if it was passed on a budget bill there is not a better place to change the funding of it than a budget bill. Right where the Democrats placed it to begin with.
 
Hey, kids, Diogenes got the rightwing memo on this! Like clockwork.

Meanwhile, the Democrats should negotiate. They should sit down with the tea baggers and demand a tax hike on the rich, a huge cut I military spending, the repeal of Citizens United, an excise tax on all financial transactions of the rich, and everything else they couldn't get in regulator legislation. No funding the government until progressive get everything they want.

Let the negotiations begin!

great..... let them negotiate a straight income tax with no write-offs, and a 90 % top bracket......that will fix America!
 
LOL. But Obama and the Senate Dems "blackmail" of the rest of the federal government is fine. Because they don't want something changed that they changed, they hurt the nation and all is good.

That's not blackmail -- that's upholding the law.
 
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