• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

Compromise is a transaction, give a little, get a little. What have the Republicans put on the table in exchange for
defunding the ACA? Allowing the government to function? Paying the bills they've already voted for? Not sabotaging the US economy? Wanting the government to function isn't a Democratic priority, it's an American priority.


LOL !!

They couldn't sabotage the economy anymore than it already is.

When has our economy EVER been totally dependent on the decisions of one man ?

All Bernake has to do is stay , "stop".
 
We've looked bad since 2008, and thr World knows full well our economy is a stack of cards held up by Fed Printing.

They are'nt impressed.

We were hardly "looking good" in the eyes of the world prior to that too. It's funny how for 8 years some on the right went "**** what the world thinks of us" but loves to pull it out now with Obama.

If you want to suggest that Obama didn't exactly make us the most popular girl in the room again like he was suggesting he would, that's fair...but let's be real, the World at large would poke and prod the US long before he got in the office.

Then again, Pepsi constantly pokes at Coke, Burger King constantly pokes at McDonalds, etc. With a certain amount of prosperity there's always a certain amount of disdain. When someone/thing has been successful or on top for a while people love to watch them stumble. It's the general nature of the human condition.
 
Did you seriously ask what purpose telling the truth would serve? The truth isn't for the "Obamabots" as you call it nor is it to change THEIR minds as they won't be changed, the purpose is to have integrity. I thought the GOP were the party of integrity according to you, so why the lies?

You say you are not excusing the GOP lying, but your comments show differently. If the GOP can't even tell the truth when they are in the right, then how can they be trusted?

Here we have someone like you who claims to be against deficits and debt and claiming he is against the ACA concerned about so called Republican lies while ignoring the added costs of all those exempted from the Obamacare program. What exact lies have the GOP made? I don't see the GOP lies so point me to them.
 
Agreed, I'm just tired of the BS games BOTH sides are playing. All the parties involved (The President, the house, and the senate) have played these games far too long. We need a budget, we desperately need reforms and reviews of ALL programs, we need accountability, and we need to get rid of any one of those that want to play these games. This goes beyond conservatism, liberalism, Dems or Reps. Neither side is clean.

Three words for you.....Balanced Budget Amendment.
 
You answer my questions with questions. First off, what I'm saying is that republicans asking for a delay so that obamacare can be implemented correctly is an outright lie that they won't even try to defend, they don't want it done right they want it gone as a best possible scenario (from their perspective) or done wrong as a 2nd best scenario.

To address your post:
You really believe that the ACA is (A)a good piece of legislation that is (B)going to lower healthcare costs and (C)improve quality?
Thats 3 questions in 1 sentence
A) not necessarily, it was rushed and certainly could have been written better, with more consideration to certain issues. But when your writing in pencil (effectively) you don't crumple the whole crossword puzzle up because one of your answers doesn't fit in light of more recent developments, you flip the pencil around, use the eraser, and fix it.

B)yes

C) that's not the point of the ACA, its to make coverage affordable and available. However, the ACA should increase competition, which should cause quality to improve over time.

Based upon what evidence?

There's tons of contradictory evidence that points to both sides being both right and wrong. There's also a lot of evidence of dishonesty with statistics, misrepresentation of facts, deliberately misleading sound bytes, and most everyone (but republicans far more so) working backwards from their conclusion and trying to find something that supports their own position, at times taking actions that create said evidence without any real need to do so (business owners ****ting on their workers in anticipation of obamacare, when they didn't need to take a dump anyway and could have done so elsewhere if they needed to). I trust none of it, let the ACA happen and lets see how it goes. America is strong enough to make the corrections needed and endure should the ACA prove to be as bad as the right makes it out to be. On the other hand, it could end up working really really well with a few adjustments, which is what the right is really scared of.

Do you go into a restaurant where the chef doesn't eat the food that restaurant prepares? What is the difference in exempting Congress from the bill?

Bad analogies are bad. You suggest that obamacare will ruin the lives of those in congress if they don't exempt themselves. Do you think any of them would have a hard time buying health insurance, top tier, out of pocket? Just another empty talking point that sounds good but makes no sense if you stop to think about it.
 
Here we have someone like you who claims to be against deficits and debt and claiming he is against the ACA concerned about so called Republican lies while ignoring the added costs of all those exempted from the Obamacare program. What exact lies have the GOP made? I don't see the GOP lies so point me to them.

Please explain to me how I am ignoring the added costs of Obamacare. Point to anywhere in this thread where I have supported the ACA. Otherwise, you are blatently lying.

As for the GOP lies, saying they want to delay it so it can be better implemented is a lie, they want to delay it to kill it. I don't like ACA and don't want it, but that doesn't excuse the GOP lying about their intentions.
 
Three words for you.....Balanced Budget Amendment.

Only if it adds that Congress doesn't get paid until it's done and after one month past the deadline new elections are held for ALL congress members. I'm not up for some wishy washy amendment with no teeth.
 
Please explain to me how I am ignoring the added costs of Obamacare. Point to anywhere in this thread where I have supported the ACA. Otherwise, you are blatently lying.

As for the GOP lies, saying they want to delay it so it can be better implemented is a lie, they want to delay it to kill it. I don't like ACA and don't want it, but that doesn't excuse the GOP lying about their intentions.

I thought it was repeal and replace?

Probably just repeal.
 
I wish we could or at least enact laws that state if congress cannot come up with a balanced budget, they don't get paid until they do so and if they don't within a certain timeframe (say 1 month from deadline) new elections are held for all congress members. Also, they need to be put on the SAME programs they want to stick us with.

If you were a board-member of a large corporation, would you be in favor of similar restrictions? Would you be against talking a loan? Would you be against public stock offerings?

What about personal finances? Are you against mortgages? What if you had a leaky roof? Would you hold off fixing the leak until you had the cash to pay for it or would you be willing to take a loan? What about student loans?

Debt can be extremely useful when used strategically. You just need to make sure that the money you spend pays for itself in the long run.
 
If you were a board-member of a large corporation, would you be in favor of similar restrictions? Would you be against talking a loan? Would you be against public stock offerings?

What about personal finances? Are you against mortgages? What if you had a leaky roof? Would you hold off fixing the leak until you had the cash to pay for it or would you be willing to take a loan? What about student loans?

Debt can be extremely useful when used strategically. You just need to make sure that the money you spend pays for itself in the long run.

Yes, but show me where $17 trillion is "good" debt. Can you even phathom what $16 trillion is, or what is needed to pay that off?

Also, when you reach your maximum limit on your "loan" or credit card, do you just call up the bank and say raise my limit each time or does the bank finally say "no, you can't get an increase"?
 
shagg;1062369110]You answer my questions with questions. First off, what I'm saying is that republicans asking for a delay so that obamacare can be implemented correctly is an outright lie that they won't even try to defend, they don't want it done right they want it gone as a best possible scenario (from their perspective) or done wrong as a 2nd best scenario.

Please point me to the quote from the Republicans asking for a delay so that Obamacare can be implemented correctly? It is about exemptions and that should bother all Americans.

To address your post:

Thats 3 questions in 1 sentence
A) not necessarily, it was rushed and certainly could have been written better, with more consideration to certain issues. But when your writing in pencil (effectively) you don't crumple the whole crossword puzzle up because one of your answers doesn't fit in light of more recent developments, you flip the pencil around, use the eraser, and fix it.

B)yes

C) that's not the point of the ACA, its to make coverage affordable and available. However, the ACA should increase competition, which should cause quality to improve over time.

Why was it rushed through in the first place, Obama took over an economy that was in recession. He implemented a stimulus plan that failed and rather than focus on the economy his next piece of legislation was Obamacare. Make sense to you? It doesn't me



There's tons of contradictory evidence that points to both sides being both right and wrong. There's also a lot of evidence of dishonesty with statistics, misrepresentation of facts, deliberately misleading sound bytes, and most everyone (but republicans far more so) working backwards from their conclusion and trying to find something that supports their own position, at times taking actions that create said evidence without any real need to do so (business owners ****ting on their workers in anticipation of obamacare, when they didn't need to take a dump anyway and could have done so elsewhere if they needed to). I trust none of it, let the ACA happen and lets see how it goes. America is strong enough to make the corrections needed and endure should the ACA prove to be as bad as the right makes it out to be. On the other hand, it could end up working really really well with a few adjustments, which is what the right is really scared of.

History shows that whenever the govt. gets involved in social issues it is always about buying votes and not creating solutions to problems. Healthcare is a personal responsibility issue and nothing the govt. does changes that nor will it lower costs, improve quality, and improve service. We have a 17 trillion dollar debt today mostly due to social engineering so what has the govt. done? Create another entitlement program that will cost more than intended, do less than promised, and never solve the problem



Bad analogies are bad. You suggest that obamacare will ruin the lives of those in congress if they don't exempt themselves. Do you think any of them would have a hard time buying health insurance, top tier, out of pocket? Just another empty talking point that sounds good but makes no sense if you stop to think about it.

That isn't what I said, Congress should have the same advantages and disadvantages as average Americans. If Obamacare is so good then exempt no one.
 

Then offer some facts and not opinions. The fact is Congress has advantages under the ACA that normal Americans don't have and you ought to know that.
 
Please explain to me how I am ignoring the added costs of Obamacare. Point to anywhere in this thread where I have supported the ACA. Otherwise, you are blatently lying.

As for the GOP lies, saying they want to delay it so it can be better implemented is a lie, they want to delay it to kill it. I don't like ACA and don't want it, but that doesn't excuse the GOP lying about their intentions.

You don't think exempted employees doesn't increase the cost of ACA? Instead of claiming the GOP is lying you ought to be supporting the GOP in trying to get rid of Obamacare.
 
You don't think exempted employees doesn't increase the cost of ACA? Instead of claiming the GOP is lying you ought to be supporting the GOP in trying to get rid of Obamacare.

Yet again Con, please point to where I support the ACA or where I support the exemptions. Can you do that?
 
Yet again Con, please point to where I support the ACA or where I support the exemptions. Can you do that?

You don't think blaming the GOP for the Govt. shutdown isn't support for Obamacare?
 
You don't think blaming the GOP for the Govt. shutdown isn't support for Obamacare?

Show me where I just blame the GOP. I said I blame BOTH sides and the president in fact. Yet again are you going to continue with these blatent lies?

How does blaming BOTH sides and the president equate to supporting Obamacare?
 
You don't think exempted employees doesn't increase the cost of ACA? Instead of claiming the GOP is lying you ought to be supporting the GOP in trying to get rid of Obamacare.
This is what is so weird about Grassley's provision, why would he insist that those already with insurance (Congressional employees) be forced into a whole new insurance regime? The only thing that makes sense is a sabotage.
 
Yes, but show me where $17 trillion is "good" debt. Can you even phathom what $16 trillion is, or what is needed to pay that off?

Also, when you reach your maximum limit on your "loan" or credit card, do you just call up the bank and say raise my limit each time or does the bank finally say "no, you can't get an increase"?

The debt limit doesn't limit future spending, it pays for spending that's already been passed.

Congress doesn't have a credit limit, but they do have to pay their bills. They can vote to spend whatever they want and sell T bills to make up the difference. They can continue to do this until they can't pay for what they spend. If that happens,T note will be risky investments. They'll demand high rates. The cost of financing the debt will explode destroying the US economy.

And all of this happens if GOP refuses to pay for what they spent. Not raising the debt ceiling would harm the US more than any terrorist ever could.
 
"This" will be over next year when Dems take back the House. So don't despair.

Great, cannot wait since the economic numbers under Democrat control of the Congress have been so stellar, in fact they have been so good that supporters have been unable to post them because the celebration would be so great on the part of the Obamabots. Guess I will never understand people who buy the rhetoric and ignore the results.
 
The debt limit doesn't limit future spending, it pays for spending that's already been passed.

Congress doesn't have a credit limit, but they do have to pay their bills. They can vote to spend whatever they want and sell T bills to make up the difference. They can continue to do this until they can't pay for what they spend. If that happens,T note will be risky investments. They'll demand high rates. The cost of financing the debt will explode destroying the US economy.

And all of this happens if GOP refuses to pay for what they spent. Not raising the debt ceiling would harm the US more than any terrorist ever could.

You have yet to show me how raising the debt each year is going to pay it off.
 
This is what is so weird about Grassley's provision, why would he insist that those already with insurance (Congressional employees) be forced into a whole new insurance regime? The only thing that makes sense is a sabotage.

For the same reason that Obamacare would force people who already have insurance into a whole new insurance regime.

If Obamacare is so awesome, why not put everyone on it?
 
Back
Top Bottom