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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
one of the most moronic arguments is to try to dismiss a philosophical argument with appeals to voting numbers.
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Why do you think his argument is moronic?? Any rational person with an ounce of intelligence knows that there was no better person to direct the course of this nation in his time than FDR. Of course, he'll always be overshadowed by Nixon, whose electoral results practically guaranteed four years of excellent decision-making:
:D
1972-electoral-map.jpg
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

NIMBY said:
I'm not sure kids give a **** about this **** in DC..
Once they go to College, some are all in..
But in anti-voting states, 17-YO are now prevented from pre-registering before their birthday, falling after the register date in these states..
College kids are being prevented from even voting from the dorms, a non-domicile..
This anti-VRA is all part of this TEAt revolution that has the govt. closed.
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Yeah. A GOP strategy is to keep the young dumb...probably prefer to hook 'em on the vacuous Miley Cyrus instead of someone sharp like the host of Democracy Now.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Threegoofs said:
Actually, it's an analysis by one of the better health economists I know. He's a physician and is published pretty widely on the subject. Most of those articles are paywalled, but the blog has similar, cogent info.
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He sounds like a knowledgable guy... perhaps this stuff is a bit outside his area of expertise. Mortality rates are fairly meaningless without knowing the respective rates of incidence. For example, he gives the US rating a big hit due to the number of lung cancer deaths, saying that fewer people smoke in the US than in other G8 countries. Maybe now... but lung cancer develops over decades. Had he taken a few seconds to research, he'd have seen that the incidence of lung cancer in this country is much higher than in other countries, and we are (if anything) more successful at treating it - the opposite of what he's able to conclude from limited data.

Still, any decent statistician would even question comparisons based on survival rates because there are just way too many other variables that could account for differences other than the healthcare they receive (genetic differences, cultural differences, cohort differences, age at diagnosis, stage at diagnosis, etc.). It's very hard to find a decent comparison of quality of care because it's very hard and very expensive to conduct decent research.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Taylor said:
Why do you think his argument is moronic?? Any rational person with an ounce of intelligence knows that there was no better person to direct the course of this nation in his time than FDR. Of course, he'll always be overshadowed by Nixon, whose electoral results practically guaranteed four years of excellent decision-making:
:D
View attachment 67155006
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opinion noted and rejected. FDR used the crisis to destroy the bounds on the federal government and to allow the foundation for the welfare socialist state. Nixon did not alter the fundamental jurisprudential fabric of the country like FDR did.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Taylor said:
He sounds like a knowledgable guy... perhaps this stuff is a bit outside his area of expertise. Mortality rates are fairly meaningless without knowing the respective rates of incidence. For example, he gives the US rating a big hit due to the number of lung cancer deaths, saying that fewer people smoke in the US than in other G8 countries. Maybe now... but lung cancer develops over decades. Had he taken a few seconds to research, he'd have seen that the incidence of lung cancer in this country is much higher than in other countries, and we are (if anything) more successful at treating it - the opposite of what he's able to conclude from limited data.

Still, any decent statistician would even question comparisons based on survival rates because there are just way too many other variables that could account for differences other than the healthcare they receive (genetic differences, cultural differences, cohort differences, age at diagnosis, stage at diagnosis, etc.). It's very hard to find a decent comparison of quality of care because it's very hard and very expensive to conduct decent research.
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Well, I haven't seen any articles you've written for JAMA, so I think I'll take Aaron Carroll's opinion over yours.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
yes I have. having studied constitutional law for 3 decades I am fully aware of the damage FDR and his administration did to the boundaries that were placed on what was supposed to be a limited federal government.
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Your argument - ar at least the argument you are repeating that others made long before you - has been thoroughly rejected by both the Congress of the United States and the Presidents of the United States over the last seventy years. And it never gained any ground with the US Supreme Court either.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Taylor said:
Well I should hope so! Did I forget the sarcasm tag?
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serves me right for posting before the caffeine kicks in:mrgreen:
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

haymarket said:
Your argument - ar at least the argument you are repeating that others made long before you - has been thoroughly rejected by both the Congress of the United States and the Presidents of the United States over the last seventy years. And it never gained any ground with the US Supreme Court either.
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ah a silly appeal to authority. If you want to say that congress and presidents are always right we will remember that. I note you have never been able to fashion a rational argument that what the FDR court did was proper based either on the obvious intent of the USC or the existing precedent at the time
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
ah a silly appeal to authority.
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Actually its an appeal to historical and legal reality. REALITY. More than seventy years of everyday political, legal and governmental reality.

REALITY. A fundamental concept that all must either live with or create an alternate reality in another world other than the one rational people live in.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

haymarket said:
Actually its an appeal to historical and legal reality. REALITY. More than seventy years of everyday political, legal and governmental reality.

REALITY. A fundamental concept that all must either live with or create an alternate reality in another world other than the one rational people live in.
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Nonsense FDR raped the constitution and his lapdog justices allowed it to happen. 20 years of Dem appointments to the court meant that the GOP was dealing with years of "precedent" when they finally got some of their own judges in office.

Reality-you cannot make a good argument for what FDR did based either on

1) the original intent and language of the Constitution

2) the Precedent that existed at the time the New Deal started to get foisted on us
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
Nonsense FDR raped the constitution and his lapdog justices allowed it to happen. 20 years of Dem appointments to the court meant that the GOP was dealing with years of "precedent" when they finally got some of their own judges in office.

Reality-you cannot make a good argument for what FDR did based either on

1) the original intent and language of the Constitution

2) the Precedent that existed at the time the New Deal started to get foisted on us
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I wonder why you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread for one month after another month after another month when I have repeatedly told you that if you want the argument for the FDR New Deal laws all you have to do is read the original Supreme Court decisions. The best argument is made there....... and the only real argument that counts....... and that includes the opinion of both you and I.

Its funny to watch you moan and whine about over 70 years of American jurisprudence when it goes against your own extremist ideology. :mrgreen::lol:
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

haymarket said:
Its funny to watch you moan and whine about over 70 years of American jurisprudence when it goes against your own extremist ideology.
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Its funny watching your posts lionize decisions that further the socialist agenda but then they piss and moan about say "Citizens United" which does not or Gore v Bush which slapped down a democratic clown show in the Florida Supreme Court ("SCOFLAW")
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
Its funny watching your posts lionize decisions that further the socialist agenda but then they piss and moan about say "Citizens United" which does not or Gore v Bush which slapped down a democratic clown show in the Florida Supreme Court ("SCOFLAW")
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BBBBBZZZZZTTTTTTT!!!!!!! that loud buzzer is telling you that your comments about Citizens United have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of FDR and the Supreme Court upholding the New Deal legislation.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

haymarket said:
BBBBBZZZZZTTTTTTT!!!!!!! that loud buzzer is telling you that your comments about Citizens United have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of FDR and the Supreme Court upholding the New Deal legislation.
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those who understand irony would note that invoking supreme court decisions as proof something is RIGHT, means you have to accept it when the USSC makes decisions your posts complain about.

the thing objective thinkers understand is that the Court is not infallible and the best you can do is to say that the current law is whatever the USSC says it is but that doesn't prove it is "just" "correct" or even consistent with the intent of the constitution
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

TurtleDude said:
those who understand irony would note that invoking supreme court decisions as proof something is RIGHT, means you have to accept it when the USSC makes decisions your posts complain about.

the thing objective thinkers understand is that the Court is not infallible and the best you can do is to say that the current law is whatever the USSC says it is but that doesn't prove it is "just" "correct" or even consistent with the intent of the constitution
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It is enough that it is current law. Until changed. So, no whining. Go back to work and try to win by working within the system.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

TheNextEra said:
If the GOP lets Obamacare go, let's the Dems take FULL ownership of it without GOP support at all, They will probably win the senate, keep the house, and get the presidency in 2016.
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It cracks me up when the enemy gives strategic tips to their opponents. giggle giggle snicker snicker

vasuderatorrent
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Boo Radley said:
Go back to work and try to win by working within the system.
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The system is being used right now. Are you referring to a different system that they are not using?

vasuderatorrent
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

vasuderatorrent said:
It cracks me up when the enemy gives strategic tips to their opponents. giggle giggle snicker snicker

vasuderatorrent
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Of course, good advice should be heeded no matter where it comes from.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

vasuderatorrent said:
The system is being used right now. Are you referring to a different system that they are not using?

vasuderatorrent
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No, it isn't. Laws once pasted and upheld usually go into effect while to opposition works to win elections so they can actually effect changes to it. That is our system.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Boo Radley said:
Laws once passed and upheld usually go into effect while the opposition works to win elections so they can actually effect changes to it. That is our system.
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The Affordable Care Act is still law. Congress didn't discard it.

vasuderatorrent
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Boo Radley said:
Of course, good advice should be heeded no matter where it comes from.
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It just seems like a conflict of interest. The opposing side could have a different motivation for giving "good advice".

vasuderatorrent
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

vasuderatorrent said:
It cracks me up when the enemy gives strategic tips to their opponents. giggle giggle snicker snicker

vasuderatorrent
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Funny, you'll have to show how I am the enemy. I'm sure you can show with my posts how I am the enemy. Let me guess, you lok at my lean, see "left" and that's all it take for you. How about showing me where my views are that of the "enemy" with actual evidence.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

vasuderatorrent said:
The Affordable Care Act is still law. Congress didn't discard it.

vasuderatorrent
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I think he might have been saying that once it goes into effect it will be easier to get rid of it?

Not sure.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

TheNextEra said:
How about showing me where my views are that of the "enemy" with actual evidence.
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You want me to spend hours of research? Sorry. I come to this forum to relax not to work. You are free to disregard my opinion because it doesn't not contain valid and documented research. I am not trying to win the nobel peace prize with my comments. I am trying to enjoy myself.

vasuderatorrent
 
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