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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
Tea Party Crowd Cheers Letting Uninsured Die - YouTube
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I believe I heard two people say yes and noticed the YouTube video cut off quickly generating I guess the propaganda liberals wanted. Suggest you read the transcript and of the actual encounter. Please explain to me what is it about liberalism that creates such strong need to distort for political gain? Do you have a vested interest in liberalism? What is it about personal responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor that you don't understand? Do you think that individual without healthcare doesn't get treatment funded BY THE STATES? I cannot believe how brainwashed you and others are
 
Conservative said:
Sure do, do you? You think the Congress spends the money for the Dept. of Defense and other govt. agencies? When I see people like you posting this crap I really don't know whether to cry or laugh.
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YES! Holy crap. Congress sets the taxes and how much each part of government is allowed to spend.

Riddle me this: If the President spends the money, then why is the government shut down until congress passes a CR?

Seriously... Take a civics class.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Wrong, been a conservative for a lot longer than you have and I will take the Conservative philosophy any day over the failures of liberalism where the answer is always throw someone else's money at the problem. You really need to get away from the leftwing sites, no conservative and no Republican wants the uninsured to die, what they do want however is for people to accept personal responsibility for their own healthcare. I suggest you focus on liberal greed instead of personal greed as that would make you more credible.
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Okay.. What do YOU want to do about an uninsured person with curable cancer? Because to me, your position is that you don't want them to die, but it's really not your problem.

Edit: also what on earth is "liberal greed" as opposed to "personal greed". Greed IS a personal thing. I can't greedily want what's best for my neighbor.
Talk about brainwashing: that's straight out of 1984 - defining words to mean their opposite.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Another interesting poll that may knock the socks off both party members was released by AP. It simply stated that 60% of Americans want to kick everyone out of Washington DC. Yes that includes the Republican House, the Democratic Senate and the President. How much of this is hot air and just frustration with the needless standoff? I really do not know, but for congress, it has always been said that the people love their own congressman and hate the other 434. But now according to AP anyhow, the people are now even willing to throw their own congressman/senator out the window.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
Tea Party Crowd Cheers Letting Uninsured Die - YouTube

Unless you want to argue that Ron Paul didn't say let the uninsured die, it's just not our responsibility to give them the help they need to live.
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He didnt say, "let them die". Did he? Why did you lie? You think if you tell the same lie enough, that people will believe it?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
What is it about personal responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor that you don't understand?
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Those are diametrically opposed, one is "boot-strappy", the other is "socialism". I'm all for neighbor helping neighbor, whether that neighbor is next door, across the street or across the city or across the country.

You have gotten all sorts of benefits from federal support throughout your life.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Here is more polling results from this AM

By Cathleen Decker
October 11, 2013, 4:00 a.m.
For Republicans, the last 10 days have felt like falling down a darkened elevator shaft: You want to hit bottom, but wonder about the odds of survival.
In what has become an almost daily occurrence, Thursday night brought another poll showing the damage the party has suffered as a result of the government shutdown. A new NBC News/Wall street Journal poll found that the party’s popularity had dropped and Americans were far more likely to blame them for the goings-on in Washington than their Democratic opponents.
A recap:
--Only 24% of Americans had a favorable view of Republicans, the lowest figure in the poll’s multi-year history and four percentage points lower than last month. Another low: only 21% had a favorable view of the tea party.
--President Obama’s standing was relatively stable, the pollsters said, moving from 45% favorable last month to 47% now, within the poll’s margin of error of 3.5 points. Democrats overall were at 39% positive, with congressional Democrats at 36%.
--70% of Americans said Republicans were putting politics ahead of what was best for the country. A lesser 51% said that about Obama.


The gap seems to have grown a bit as for blame between the Republicans and the Democrats. What should stand out is this is also hurting the president as the last sentence above states. Okay, we know about 70% who think Republicans are putting politics over country, but now a majority of Americans think the president is doing the same thing. Granted 51% is way behind the 70% mark. But folks, it can't be good for the president to be seen as one who puts politics over country.
 
iguanaman said:
Reagan spent his way out of his recession like he was told, I don't hold it against him for that. It's denying that he did that is reprehensible. He also raised taxes so that alone makes him far better than GW Bush who buried us with debt from his ridiculous tax cuts.
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How did he raise taxes?

Doesn't congress pass such bills? All he did was approve or disprove of legislation. Marginal tax rates went down under Reagan. Can you please show me how I am in error?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

apdst said:
He didnt say, "let them die". Did he? Why did you lie? You think if you tell the same lie enough, that people will believe it?
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He did not use the words "let them die". He asked why is that his problem?

This is like a man standing on the shore next to a life raft watching another man drown. You ask the man standing on the shore, "Why are you letting the other man drown? Do you want him to drown". And the first man says' I'm not letting him drown, it's simply not my responsibility to throw the life raft.

He may not have used those exact words, but there is absolutely no other explanation for what Ron Paul said. There are uninsured people that need medicine or they'll die. There are only three possible choices. 1) All of the insured people pay more to cover the uninsured (the previous system), 2). Everyone pays and everyone is insured, 3). We let them die.

Ron Paul wants #3. Own it. Don't pretend you don't believe something because it's not a political winner.
 
iguanaman said:
We have run deficits for 63 of the last 73 years. You tell me. What is the norm? What good does paying down debt do for the US economy?
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I was replying to the claim that the WWII generation never paid down the debt. I think I successfully proved that to be a false statement.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Wiggen said:
The Founders also thought black people were only worth 3/5ths of a human being for redistricting purposes. So don't quote the hallowed 'Founding Fathers' to me on this issue.
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Not all of them. Southern slaveholders certainly shared your view that slaves should have been counted the same as any other person.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
The founders were interested in creating a government, the Tea party is only interested in wrecking ours.
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I see the ones wreaking our economy as the ones who pass out other people's money.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
Don't drag conservatives into this. I said that the TEA PARTY is interested in wrecking government. And yes, the TEA PARTY wants all of those things. Remember the GOP primaries? The TEA PARTY cheered when Ron Paul said let the uninsured die.

Conservatism is a serious political philosophy. It is not nihilism. Conservatives are interested in making government work better. You are not a conservative.
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You need to see that in context. What you repeated gives a false representation of what he said.

Keep it up, and people might think you are a liar.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Lord of Planar said:
You need to see that in context. What you repeated gives a false representation of what he said.

Keep it up, and people might think you are a liar.
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What is the correct representation?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
I believe I heard two people say yes and noticed the YouTube video cut off quickly generating I guess the propaganda liberals wanted. Suggest you read the transcript and of the actual encounter. Please explain to me what is it about liberalism that creates such strong need to distort for political gain? Do you have a vested interest in liberalism? What is it about personal responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor that you don't understand? Do you think that individual without healthcare doesn't get treatment funded BY THE STATES? I cannot believe how brainwashed you and others are
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He goes on to talk about how charities have traditionally, and some that still do step in.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
He did not use the words "let them die". He asked why is that his problem?

This is like a man standing on the shore next to a life raft watching another man drown. You ask the man standing on the shore, "Why are you letting the other man drown? Do you want him to drown". And the first man says' I'm not letting him drown, it's simply not my responsibility to throw the life raft.
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It's more like a man forcing you at gunpoint to build a raft for the guy down the beach because he might need a raft at some point, but doesn't want build one for himself.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Lord of Planar said:
He goes on to talk about how charities have traditionally, and some that still do step in.
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So its' let charities take care of the uninsured, unless they can't.. Then let them die.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
He did not use the words "let them die". He asked why is that his problem?

This is like a man standing on the shore next to a life raft watching another man drown. You ask the man standing on the shore, "Why are you letting the other man drown? Do you want him to drown". And the first man says' I'm not letting him drown, it's simply not my responsibility to throw the life raft.

He may not have used those exact words, but there is absolutely no other explanation for what Ron Paul said. There are uninsured people that need medicine or they'll die. There are only three possible choices. 1) All of the insured people pay more to cover the uninsured (the previous system), 2). Everyone pays and everyone is insured, 3). We let them die.

Ron Paul wants #3. Own it. Don't pretend you don't believe something because it's not a political winner.
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Right! He didn't say it. You lied. Why?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Taylor said:
It's more like a man forcing you at gunpoint to build a raft for the guy down the beach because he might need a raft at some point, but doesn't want build one for himself.
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It's more like forcing the man who doesn't want to build a raft, to help build a raft at gunpoint.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Mithros said:
So its' let charities take care of the uninsured, unless they can't.. Then let them die.
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How about people taking responsibility for themselves?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

apdst said:
How about people taking responsibility for themselves?
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aka let them die.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Lord of Planar said:
He goes on to talk about how charities have traditionally, and some that still do step in.
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Charities are an order of magnitude too small to handle the need.

Once you admit to the usefulness of charities, you recognize the need. If you recognize the need, then you have to address the issue and find a total solution....or just ignore it.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

apdst said:
How about people taking responsibility for themselves?
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Right, this is ignoring the need. Do not help your neighbor. It is anti society.
 
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