CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

You are incredibly naïve, gullible, or ignorant, maybe all three. Each of your posts gets absolutely dumber. You have no idea what you are talking about. Someone putting that same amount into a simple savings account would generate a lot more than that plus it would be your money when you retire or your family's if you should pass away. Someone with 361,000 in benefits at 1500 a month would take 12 years to get your money back and if you pass away during that period of time your spouse gets very little and none if you both collect SS.

You give the people of Ohio a bad name. I grew up in Ohio, graduated from an Ohio University, and I am embarrassed to read your posts. My wife worked, put money into SS, collected for one year, passed away and all the remainder of her money "contributed" goes to someone else, not her family. Only in the liberal world is that fair. Now stop making an ass out of yourself and the people of Ohio

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Engineering Graduate from Illinois, went to HS in Michigan and now financially contribute taxes to the great state of Ohio.

People can easily live 25 to 30 years after retirement,

Contributions from 1970's were taken out at a rate of roughly 10% on max of $15,000 in income, roughly on average. That's $1500 per year like I said.

Social Security and Medicare Tax Rates, Calendar Years 1937 - 2009 | Tax Foundation

In the eighties it went up, quite a bit.
80's: $40K @ 14%, meaning an average of roughly $5.5K per year
90's: $65K @ 15%, average of $10K
Y2K's: $100K @ 15%, avg $15K

So, as you can clearly see, we who work today pay quite a bit to support those who retired years ago.

And when Medicare benefits are added to the mix, it's safe to say your retirement is being subsidized by roughly 10-20 times the amount you ever put into the system.

Threegoofs said:

Ok. So to summarize....
You say Medicare has nothing to do with the US debt, except that its a major part of it.

You say you're being forced to take Medicare, but you don't really want it and are upset that doctors are not taking your government funded health plan which is not really funded by government at all, but by your own contributions

You also are being forced to personally sign SS checks and forced to walk to the bank and deposit those checks, while being deeply committed to the fact that you don't want younger people bring forced at gunpoint in the future to sign and deposit those checks in THEIR old age. .

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You show exactly what it means to be a liberal, trolling, baiting, and diverting. Medicare and SS were never supposed to be on budget, get it Yet? Medicare is now part of the debt because it is on budget, get it yet? Medicare is a self funding program thus on its own has nothing to do with the debt, get it yet?

Medicare is part of the SS program, get it yet? Workers are forced to contribute to SS and Medicare, get it yet? Doctors aren't required to accept Medicare and many are dropping Medicare, get it yet? Workers do not have a choice, get it yet?

SS is a forced contribution, get it yet? The money put into SS comes from the individual employee including you when you start working, get it yet? If you are lucky enough to survive to 65, you start getting that money back and if you are lucky you may get what you contributed back and yes may get more but if you die, where does your contribution go?

I know being from Chicago it probably is hard for you to understand but if you took the same amount of money you and your employer contributed to SS, put it in an untouchable savings account, when you retire all that money is yours or if you die it belongs to the family. Amazing that you think people forced to contribute shouldn't get their money back. That is typical brainwashed liberalism for all you are doing is giving the govt. bureaucrats a huge slush fund to spend on what they want to spend, then borrow to pay you what you contributed when you retire.

Please give me some example that you are smarter than you appear?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

Engineering Graduate from Illinois, went to HS in Michigan and now financially contribute taxes to the great state of Ohio.

People can easily live 25 to 30 years after retirement,

Contributions from 1970's were taken out at a rate of roughly 10% on max of $15,000 in income, roughly on average. That's $1500 per year like I said.

Social Security and Medicare Tax Rates, Calendar Years 1937 - 2009 | Tax Foundation

In the eighties it went up, quite a bit.
80's: $40K @ 14%, meaning an average of roughly $5.5K per year
90's: $65K @ 15%, average of $10K
Y2K's: $100K @ 15%, avg $15K

So, as you can clearly see, we who work today pay quite a bit to support those who retired years ago.

And when Medicare benefits are added to the mix, it's safe to say your retirement is being subsidized by roughly 10-20 times the amount you ever put into the system.

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Yes, people can live 25-30 years after retirement just like they can die before or shortly after retirement. You have no idea how long you are going to live and if you are lucky enough yes you will get more than you contributed however not more than you would have contributed had you been allowed to invest the money in a simply untouchable money market account. This is a foreign concept to you. Where do you think my wife's SS contribution went when she passed away at age 63?

It is very simply, get an investment calculator, put your contribution and your employer contribution into that calculator @4% a year over 35 years and see how much you have when you retire and who gets that money? You apparently have no concept of return on investment and are a typical brainwashed liberal. You are way too smart to be this naïve and gullible. Stop being a tool for big govt. liberals!

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

Yes, people can live 25-30 years after retirement just like they can die before or shortly after retirement. You have no idea how long you are going to live and if you are lucky enough yes you will get more than you contributed however not more than you would have contributed had you been allowed to invest the money in a simply untouchable money market account. This is a foreign concept to you. Where do you think my wife's SS contribution went when she passed away at age 63?

It is very simply, get an investment calculator, put your contribution and your employer contribution into that calculator @4% a year over 35 years and see how much you have when you retire and who gets that money? You apparently have no concept of return on investment and are a typical brainwashed liberal. You are way too smart to be this naïve and gullible. Stop being a tool for big govt. liberals!

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Actually, odds are that those who earn the least--especially men of color---will die the soonest, many even before reaching retirement, while those who earn far beyond the maximum taxable amount will live well into their nineties.

Threegoofs said:

Oh. So you're now saying Medicare IS responsible for the debt.

Interesting reversal

So we can conclude that you're sponging off Medicare is directly responsible for the ballooning debt. If you're not helping the problem, you're part of the problem.

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OMG.

I didn't read it like that.

These programs are solvent right now. They collect more money than they pay out. The government spends it. It will not be too many years from now that they will need to start spending their money that the government already spent.

Threegoofs said:

Ok. So to summarize....
You say Medicare has nothing to do with the US debt, except that its a major part of it.

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Medicare is one of the owners of the bonds financing the debt. Not to long from now, it will need to cash in those bonds, unless we increase medicare payment rates above their 1.45%.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

-snip-

In the eighties it went up, quite a bit.
80's: $40K @ 14%, meaning an average of roughly $5.5K per year
90's: $65K @ 15%, average of $10K
Y2K's: $100K @ 15%, avg $15K

So, as you can clearly see, we who work today pay quite a bit to support those who retired years ago.

-snip-

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Your forget one thing. Many of those people still die before collecting, and how compound interest increases the money put in. I one time did a rough calculation of what an individual account for me would be based on the money I put in with compound interest.

Do you understand compound interest?

wiki: Compound Interest

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

Actually, odds are that those who earn the least--especially men of color---will die the soonest, many even before reaching retirement, while those who earn far beyond the maximum taxable amount will live well into their nineties.

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And there is a maximum one can collect as well.

Lord of Planar said:

Medicare is one of the owners of the bonds financing the debt. Not to long from now, it will need to cash in those bonds, unless we increase medicare payment rates above their 1.45%.

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Ah. So you are on the side that Medicare has nothing to do with the debt.

Let Conservative know that. He half agrees.

Medicare, of course, is not self funding, unless you are talking about Part A (hospital insurance- not B or D - outpatient or drug coverage).

Kushinator said:

Do you understand why balancing the budget in 2009 would lead to depression? If not, i will explain it to you (which should be a fruitful exercise for those who are not informed on this subject).

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Do you understand why spending 17 trillion dollars we don't have along with devaluing all of our money is a bad thing? Can you imagine any exercise where we actually reduce our debt? Or does your wisdom tell you that you will die before the economic collapse occurs so it won't be your problem?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

And when Medicare benefits are added to the mix, it's safe to say your retirement is being subsidized by roughly 10-20 times the amount you ever put into the system.

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How long do you think that can go on. Doesn't it sound like a Ponzi scheme to you? Why haven't we perp walked everyone who has supported this?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

Actually, odds are that those who earn the least--especially men of color---will die the soonest, many even before reaching retirement, while those who earn far beyond the maximum taxable amount will live well into their nineties.

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Typical liberalism, you never answer a direct question and have to divert. Where is the answer to my question, where should my wife's contribution to SS go? If it had gone to insurance it would go to the family. Light bulb go off yet?

Lord of Planar said:

Medicare is one of the owners of the bonds financing the debt. Not to long from now, it will need to cash in those bonds, unless we increase medicare payment rates above their 1.45%.

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You will never get an answer from a liberal as to where the money comes from to pay off those bonds? Guess the money tree behind the capital building?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Misterveritis said:

How long do you think that can go on. Doesn't it sound like a Ponzi scheme to you? Why haven't we perp walked everyone who has supported this?

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It's an entitlement that suffers now because of the impending boomer retirements. We simply have too many people drawing money who never teally paid in their fair share. By 2030, the bulk of them will begin dying, and we'll have more workers per retiree again.

Conservative said:

Typical liberalism, you never answer a direct question and have to divert. Where is the answer to my question, where should my wife's contribution to SS go? If it had gone to insurance it would go to the family. Light bulb go off yet?

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You should visit this thread:

Why-do-conservatives-on-most-forums-seem-less-knowledgeable? http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=174378

I'm pretty sure you might have a hilarious thing or two to add.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

It's an entitlement that suffers now because of the impending boomer retirements. We simply have too many people drawing money who never teally paid in their fair share. By 2030, the bulk of them will begin dying, and we'll have more workers per retiree again.

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Really? the fair share argument? Where do you get this information? Anyone that contributes to SS is entitled to the guarantee the govt. made to them when they forced them to contribute. SS and Medicare were self funding and solvent until the Federal Govt. put both on budget and has spent the money on items other than SS. I sure hope that light bulb goes off soon because your posts are embarrassing.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

Typical liberalism, you never answer a direct question and have to divert. Where is the answer to my question, where should my wife's contribution to SS go? If it had gone to insurance it would go to the family. Light bulb go off yet?

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By paying in the max since about 1992, I've probably handed over more than you and your late wife combined. Figure, I'll be paying max for another 20 years, and I'll probably end up contributing 10x the amount you two did.

So...I don't want to hear your whine. Cash your entitlement and quit picking on others who also want a government check.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

By paying in the max since about 1992, I've probably handed over more than you and your late wife combined. Figure, I'll be paying max for another 20 years, and I'll probably end up contributing 10x the amount you two did.

So...I don't want to hear your whine. Cash your entitlement and quit picking on others who also want a government check.

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It doesn't matter what you are entitled to, or what the government promises; if the money is not there then there is little you can do. Do you really trust politicians?

Anyone who relies on the government to look after them is being more than a little foolish, and it's a lesson many still have to learn.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

Typical liberalism, you never answer a direct question and have to divert. Where is the answer to my question, where should my wife's contribution to SS go? If it had gone to insurance it would go to the family. Light bulb go off yet?

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I have no qualms with you collecting your entitlement. My objection is you demonizing others in the same boat, specifically those needing food stamps or other gvt assistance, like subsidized housing and/or healthcare.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

By paying in the max since about 1992, I've probably handed over more than you and your late wife combined. Figure, I'll be paying max for another 20 years, and I'll probably end up contributing 10x the amount you two did.

So...I don't want to hear your whine. Cash your entitlement and quit picking on others who also want a government check.

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You didn't answer the question, where should my wife's money go if not to her family. You don't seem to understand the concept of contributions along with just about everything else. It isn't a government check, it is her money and mine as well as yours that you contribute. Why should your money pay fro my retirement supplement? Is that what a Ponzi scheme is?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

I have no qualms with you collecting your entitlement. My objection is you demonizing others in the same boat, specifically those needing food stamps or other gvt assistance, like subsidized housing and/or healthcare.

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Do you know any of those people collecting food stamps? The concept of a limited Federal govt. is foreign to liberals who look to the Federal govt. to provide what they cannot sell in the their state. Where should my wife's entitlement go?

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

You didn't answer the question, where should my wife's money go if not to her family. You don't seem to understand the concept of contributions along with just about everything else. It isn't a government check, it is her money and mine as well as yours that you contribute. Why should your money pay fro my retirement supplement? Is that what a Ponzi scheme is?

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It is a Ponzi scheme. That's the sad truth, and millions of people are going to be very disappointed..

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:

1. Do you know any of those people collecting food stamps? 2. The concept of a limited Federal govt. is foreign to liberals who look to the Federal govt. to provide what they cannot sell in the their state. 3. Where should my wife's entitlement go?

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1. Sadly I know a single mom with mental disability who collects food stamps, housing subsidy and cash assistance. She's unemployable. And, even if some firm dared carry her on their staff, she could never hold the job and care for the kids. So, the state carries her. I wish there was a better option. But, it is what it is.

2. My belief in a limited gvt doesn't mean I want to see you starving on the street with no healthcare because you are too old to work and no one accept you for health insurance. I wish there was a better option, but it is what it is. I'd rather people work until they can't anymore. Healthy, capable a d experienced people retiring 10-20 years before they become feeble is a waste of resources.

3. Hopefully it went to some needy kid whose parent died before they reached age-18.

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:

1. Sadly I know a single mom with mental disability who collects food stamps, housing subsidy and cash assistance. She's unemployable. And, even if some firm dared carry her on their staff, she could never hold the job and care for the kids. So, the state carries her. I wish there was a better option. But, it is what it is.

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At one time family and neighbors helped each other, a concept loosely defined as "Christian Charity". Now it seems we cannot help each other anymore, the government has to do it for us or we starve, or die on the streets. I'm not sure this is progress.