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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Boo Radley said:
They lost the vote. They lost the court battle. Now they are just holding their breath to get their way. It's not the process. It's childish.
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Complain all that you want. Appropriations are part of the process. And in this case the good guys are holding out. Let us all hope they continue. The nation will be better off.
 
The goal is mediocrity

Threegoofs said:
US debt is something like 75% of GDP.

Belgium and France are doing just fine with 100% ratios.

Japan, while not thriving and growing, mostly due to demographic problems, has debt over 200% of GDP. They're not collapsing, are they?
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We are at 100% or more. And none of the countries you listed are doing just fine. They are mediocre at best. Is that your goal for the US?
 
Re: Let's get back to our Constitutional Basis

Misterveritis said:
There were only three things the federal government may tax us for. The first two are to pay our debts and to provide for the common defense. This does not say we can bankrupt the nation and its taxpayers for every silly idea someone in the federal government has.

Let's get back to basics. It is time to begin eliminating every government program that doesn't logically and directly result from one of the enumerated powers. Social security and Medicare have no constitutional basis. It is time to end them. The EPA has no basis. Education. No basis. There are nearly 500 independent agencies today. Most of them have no constitutional basis for their existence. It is time to shed them.
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Which Constitutional law class did you fail?

Heck- in 1798, Congress and John Adams passed a healthcare bill for merchant seamen. Taxing every ship to pay for it. I'm pretty sure many of those guys actually WROTE the Constitution....
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Threegoofs said:
US debt is something like 75% of GDP.

Belgium and France are doing just fine with 100% ratios.

Japan, while not thriving and growing, mostly due to demographic problems, has debt over 200% of GDP. They're not collapsing, are they?
Click to expand...

Sorry but that is a lie, public debt plus intergovt. holdings exceed 100% of our yearly GDP

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

I am sure that France is more in turn with your economic model of high taxes and low economic growth

Taxation in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I am sure you would love paying $8 a gallon for gasoline. Those of you that believe socialism is free are sadly mistaken
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Misterveritis said:
Complain all that you want. Appropriations are part of the process. And in this case the good guys are holding out. Let us all hope they continue. The nation will be better off.
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It's not appropriations that we're talking about. And no, the good guys are not the ones holding out. And no, the nation will not be better off. You feel this way because you believe the false hyperbolic narrative. That saddens me, but you do. :(
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Boo Radley said:
No one said they did. They are trying to force their will outside the normal process.
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I'll never be able to convince you that congress is acting within the normal process but they really are. Everything is 100% legit. Nobody is breaking the law. Have you ever heard the term "Act of Congress"? I.E. It's takes an "Act of Congress" to roll over my 401(K) into an IRA. An act of congress is supposed to be nearly impossible. This prevents the government from overstepping their bounds and becoming tyrants. Legislation is supposed to be rare. It was set up that way on purpose. Our founding fathers would be clapping right now if they were hear to witness this circus. The public can't get screwed when the government can't get along. When they start getting along that's when we need to be worried.

vasuderatorrent
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Name for me a Western thriving growing economy that has debt 100% of GDP? You don't seem to understand what effect that high of a debt has on economic activity. Sure looks like nothing ever changes the mind of an Obamabot or liberal.
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Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.

•The baby boom generation has unfairly benefited from bubble-finance, a 30-year explosion of debt which created temporary but unsustainable economic prosperity, and a financialization of the system through lower and lower interest rates that has massively rewarded speculation but not real investments. $60 trillion of net worth in the household sector of which $45 trillion belongs to the top 5 percent.•We need take back at least some small fraction of the great windfall for the upper 1 to 5 percent and pay down the government debt else the next generation is going to be buried paying taxes.
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David Stockman: We’re Blind to the Debt Bubble – PBS Newshour 05-30-13 « Investa
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Conservative said:
Speaking positively will certainly help but things like demonizing individual wealth creation, proposing higher taxes, ACA, regulations that stop the Keystone Pipeline and demonize coal production, regulations that discourage right to work states to bring in non union businesses certainly don't help.
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I don't disagree with anything you said there honestly minus the Keystone Pipeline. The pipeline is AWFUL for the United States. The oil doesn't even stay in America. This thread isn't about Keystone though, so I won't ramble on :p
 
Re: Let's get back to our Constitutional Basis

Misterveritis said:
There were only three things the federal government may tax us for. The first two are to pay our debts and to provide for the common defense. This does not say we can bankrupt the nation and its taxpayers for every silly idea someone in the federal government has.

Let's get back to basics. It is time to begin eliminating every government program that doesn't logically and directly result from one of the enumerated powers. Social security and Medicare have no constitutional basis. It is time to end them. The EPA has no basis. Education. No basis. There are nearly 500 independent agencies today. Most of them have no constitutional basis for their existence. It is time to shed them.
Click to expand...

Nixon created the EPA in response to massive pollution problems that cropped up from lack of regulation. The idea that we will go back to polluted rivers and air because we "can't afford it" is a prime example of your sides dinosaur status. We will cut our military to the bone long before we even think of cuts like that. Spending more on Defense than all other nations combined is not sustainable. I think even the need for a "standing army" is questionable.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

iguanaman said:
Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.
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1. I've heard this assertion mainly coming from the Right (growth claim) but the numbers just don't support it. The historic average federal revenue of ~18% of GDP just doesn't come close to closing the deficit even with double digit GDP growth.

2. Didn't Clinton reduce CG rates AND Republicans in Congress demand spending cuts (austerity) in the '90's to produce the budget surplus?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Sorry but that is a lie, public debt plus intergovt. holdings exceed 100% of our yearly GDP

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

I am sure that France is more in turn with your economic model of high taxes and low economic growth

Taxation in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I am sure you would love paying $8 a gallon for gasoline. Those of you that believe socialism is free are sadly mistaken
Click to expand...

Isn't it fun to build strawman?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

iguanaman said:
Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.



David Stockman: We’re Blind to the Debt Bubble – PBS Newshour 05-30-13 « Investa
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Do you really want to compare this country to Japan? Inflation in Japan is rampant. What is it about liberalism that creates ignorance of what is going on in the world. Trying to justify 100% debt to GDP ration? that just goes to who how little you really know. It is one thing to have debt of 50-60% GDP and generate the kind of results someone like Reagan generated or 100% debt to GDP ratio with the results Obama has generated. You see at least with strong economic growth and job creation there is a chance to pay down that debt

How does the Obama economic policies promote growth?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

vasuderatorrent said:
I'll never be able to convince you that congress is acting within the normal process but they really are. Everything is 100% legit. Nobody is breaking the law. Have you ever heard the term "Act of Congress"? I.E. It's takes an "Act of Congress" to roll over my 401(K) into an IRA. An act of congress is supposed to be nearly impossible. This prevents the government from overstepping their bounds and becoming tyrants. Legislation is supposed to be rare. It was set up that way on purpose. Our founding fathers would be clapping right now if they were hear to witness this circus. The public can't get screwed when the government can't get along. When they start getting along that's when we need to be worried.

vasuderatorrent
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I think you're misusing the term. Nearly anything congress does is an act of congress. However, in your context this is usually where a law is either going to be declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS, or is not being signed by the president. What the house has done never got past the Senate.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Threegoofs said:
Isn't it fun to build strawman?
Click to expand...

No, actually it is fun making people like you look foolish.

Debt to GDP
Public debt-71%
Intergovt. holdings 29%

Total 100%

How has Obama addressed this problem and what economic policies has he put into place to stimulate growth?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

iacardsfan said:
I don't disagree with anything you said there honestly minus the Keystone Pipeline. The pipeline is AWFUL for the United States. The oil doesn't even stay in America. This thread isn't about Keystone though, so I won't ramble on :p
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Totally understand but the question was about creating jobs and how the govt. affects job creation. Keystone Pipeline delays is one example. The people of Nebraska want it so why does a bureaucrat in D.C. have any say?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Conservative said:
Totally understand but the question was about creating jobs and how the govt. affects job creation. Keystone Pipeline delays is one example. The people of Nebraska want it so why does a bureaucrat in D.C. have any say?
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Nebraska is only one state out of several that are affected.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Conservative said:
Name for me a state that is against it? Nebraska is what stalled it in the first place
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I would argue Oklahoma. Cushing's economy would be destroyed.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Do you really want to compare this country to Japan? Inflation in Japan is rampant. What is it about liberalism that creates ignorance of what is going on in the world. Trying to justify 100% debt to GDP ration? that just goes to who how little you really know. It is one thing to have debt of 50-60% GDP and generate the kind of results someone like Reagan generated or 100% debt to GDP ratio with the results Obama has generated. You see at least with strong economic growth and job creation there is a chance to pay down that debt

How does the Obama economic policies promote growth?
Click to expand...

Why is it that you like to make unfounded statements? Inflation is not "rampant" in Japan, in fact they are still dealing with a DEFLATION problem.
Except for the stimulus, most of Obama's pro-growth policies have been thwarted by the opposition but at least he has resisted the anti-growth austerity measures that put Europe into a double dip recession.

The inflation rate in Japan was recorded at 0.91 percent in August of 2013. Inflation Rate in Japan is reported by the Ministry of Internal Affairs & Communications. Japan Inflation Rate averaged 3.17 Percent from 1958 until 2013, reaching an all time high of 25 Percent in February of 1974 and a record low of -2.52 Percent in October of 2009. In Japan, the most important categories in the consumer price index are Food (25 percent of total weight) and Housing (21 percent). Transportation and communications accounts for 14 percent; Culture and recreation for 11.5 percent; Fuel, light and water charges for 7 percent; Medical care for 4.3 percent; Clothes and footwear for 4 percent. Furniture and household utensils, Education and Miscellaneous goods and services account for the remaining. This page contains - Japan Inflation Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. 2013-10-13
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Re: Most would blame Republicans

Conservative said:
Totally understand but the question was about creating jobs and how the govt. affects job creation. Keystone Pipeline delays is one example. The people of Nebraska want it so why does a bureaucrat in D.C. have any say?
Click to expand...

As long as the pipeline stays within the borders of Nebraska, I say go for it.
 
Re: Let's get back to our Constitutional Basis

Threegoofs said:
Which Constitutional law class did you fail?

Heck- in 1798, Congress and John Adams passed a healthcare bill for merchant seamen. Taxing every ship to pay for it. I'm pretty sure many of those guys actually WROTE the Constitution....
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I have actually read the Constitution.

Here is what it says in Article 1 Section 8, "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.

That is all -- three purposes. To pay the debts, to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the US.

There is a large and growing discussion on this very topic. It is quite interesting.

Those on the left argue that MessiahCare is therefore Constitutional since there is a precedent for collecting money from seamen leaving foreign ports and entering American ports. Others argue that this was part of the Congresses obligation to regulate commerce, back when that actually meant regulating commerce and not just a means to subvert the rest of the Constitution.

Interestingly it does offer another glimpse into what will happen with MesiahCare. About 25 years after it was implemented it went bankrupt. I could not find when the act was repealed. I will wait for someone else to find it.

If MesiahCare is constitutional based on the historical precedent may we please have a return to slavery? It need not be based on skin color. Let's sell off the massive number of welfare recipients who drain us of our resources and actually get something of value for the trillions we spend paying people to breed and not work. Deal?

And why be obnoxious?

I am able to read at or above the tenth grade level. That is all that is required to understand the Constitution.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

iguanaman said:
Why is it that you like to make unfounded statements? Inflation is not "rampant" in Japan, in fact they are still dealing with a DEFLATION problem.
Most of Obama's pro-growth policies have been thwarted by the opposition but at least he has resisted the anti-growth austerity measures that put Europe into a double dip recession.
Click to expand...

Rather interesting that once again you doubt the numbers I post and claim they are unfounded. try buying a hamburger in Japan and see what it costs.

Why are Retail Prices in Japan so High?: Evidence from German Export Prices

Is there anything that anyone can post that would convert you from a liberal? Obviously results don't matter
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Unitedwestand13 said:
the total job creation keystone would create is insignificant compared to the actual number of unemployed people.
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That is your opinion but as usual you look at the small picture and not the big one which is downstream and what that product would do after getting to the refineries.
 
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