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Lower Health Insurance Premiums to Come at Cost of Fewer Choices

trfjr said:
I'm talking about the millions who and or spouse/family are losing their employer provided heath care and are being forced into the exchanges at a higher cost and or co-pay and Rationed Care
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Oh, so you are talking about other people whop have been facing not having every doctor in their area on their coverage since the invention of health insurance not having every doctor in their area on their plan. That is not new. It happened all the time that when a person changed jobs or their company changed providers that they had to switch doctors because theirs was no longer on their new plan. Just like I said. Only now insurance might be cheaper. I am still waiting for the actual numbers and we probably will not know the actual cost for a couple of years until full implementation. But it is good to know you have no clue what health insurance was before obamacare which helps you to ignorantly spout BS like a parrot. Some of us actually have jobs with health insurance, and have had it for years, so we know and remember what it is like. This is not new.
 
tererun said:
Oh, so you are talking about other people whop have been facing not having every doctor in their area on their coverage since the invention of health insurance not having every doctor in their area on their plan. That is not new. It happened all the time that when a person changed jobs or their company changed providers that they had to switch doctors because theirs was no longer on their new plan. Just like I said. Only now insurance might be cheaper. I am still waiting for the actual numbers and we probably will not know the actual cost for a couple of years until full implementation. But it is good to know you have no clue what health insurance was before obamacare which helps you to ignorantly spout BS like a parrot. Some of us actually have jobs with health insurance, and have had it for years, so we know and remember what it is like. This is not new.
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not every employer provided health care are MMOs as mater of fact they are rare today because of the hate for them. If your insurance is denied now days it was the doctors decision not to take your insurance not the insurance companies decision what doctor you can see
 
Source of article is the NY Times which also happens to be in one of the few states that will see health insurance costs drop under ACA:

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trfjr said:
I'm talking about the millions who and or spouse/family are losing their employer provided heath care and are being forced into the exchanges at a higher cost and or co-pay and Rationed Care
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Your source does not talk about that, which is why you are moving the goalpost. Your source also denies higher costs and rationed care, and you seem to be ignorant of how the exchanges work.
 
iguanaman said:
You mean we now can't pay out of our own pocket if we want a different doctor?
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:doh

Where did he say anything about paying out of pocket for anything?

Wait a minute..

Healthcare has always been rationed in the US, usually by the level of your wealth, but also by your insurance company. And you did not have your choice of ALL doctors in your area.. only those approved by your insurance company which is exactly what you are complaining about... so how is this any different other than it is now cheaper?
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

'Cos it sure isn't in there.

(Never mind that I was the one who said that indeed, we could do that.)
 
trfjr said:
not every employer provided health care are MMOs as mater of fact they are rare today because of the hate for them. If your insurance is denied now days it was the doctors decision not to take your insurance not the insurance companies decision what doctor you can see
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Same old complaint, and same old pretense that we are all going to get rationed health care and death panels which we have had for years unless we were independently wealthy enough to pay for our own health care. This is the nature of insurance and Obama's implementation of the romney care requirement for insurance doesn't change that. Oddly, the regulations under obamacare that you cannot be dropped from insurance for getting sick does make things better and eliminate some of the option of rationing and death panels that existed before. You have no knowledge of how things work, and are trying to remain in a fantasy narrative which is why you were so easily fooled by the twisting of the truth in the article and by the right.
 
Redress said:
The story is about the insurance exchanges, and because of those(see, that would be, you know, the topic of the thread) no one is being rationed or forced to change doctors.
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Well, I think you are either just plain wrong about that, or intentionally misleading about what is going on...If businesses are dropping their benefits for employees, or dropping their hours down below 30 to deny benefits as a result of the law, then yes, they are being forced to change doctors.
 
j-mac said:
Well, I think you are either just plain wrong about that, or intentionally misleading about what is going on...If businesses are dropping their benefits for employees, or dropping their hours down below 30 to deny benefits as a result of the law, then yes, they are being forced to change doctors.
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WHat does that have to do with insurance companies offering low cost, low benefit plans through the insurance exchange? That would be the topic of the article and what I was talking about.
 
Redress said:
Your source does not talk about that, which is why you are moving the goalpost. Your source also denies higher costs and rationed care, and you seem to be ignorant of how the exchanges work.
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Are you saying you know how the exchanges work? Also is it a question of how the exchanges work or what the law allows?
 
Redress said:
Your source does not talk about that, which is why you are moving the goalpost. Your source also denies higher costs and rationed care, and you seem to be ignorant of how the exchanges work.
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Serious question

Are you going to buy HI or pay the fine?
 
Redress said:
WHat does that have to do with insurance companies offering low cost, low benefit plans through the insurance exchange? That would be the topic of the article and what I was talking about.
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I didn't think low benefit plans were allowed, unless you mean Bronze = low benefit.
 
Bronson said:
Serious question

Are you going to buy HI or pay the fine?
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Do you know what the fine is for 2014. It will not be part of the decision to sign up or not in 2014.
 
Redress said:
Your source does not talk about that, which is why you are moving the goalpost. Your source also denies higher costs and rationed care, and you seem to be ignorant of how the exchanges work.
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it called expansion of the topic that is related to the topic it isn't called moving the goal post. And I did refer to it with my statement of being lied to about how you can keep your doctor and you health plan
 
washunut said:
Do you know what the fine is for 2014. It will not be part of the decision to sign up or not in 2014.
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It starts small and will incrementally increase year after year until the only economical plan you will be able to buy will be the dogsh*& Obamacare Plan where the hospitals will be like TJ

All while working 2 part time jobs, in debt to your eyeballs because of student loans for careers that no longer exist

Paying the fine = No health insurance. No health coverage.

trfjr said:
it called expansion of the topic that is related to the topic it isn't called moving the goal post. And I did refer to it with my statement of being lied to about how you can keep your doctor and you health plan
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Yea what happened to that? The only people moving the goal post are sycophants who keep trying to spray perfume onto this pile of dog crap called Obamacare. "You're just too stupid to understand" is the only talking point they have left. They lied lied lied when they sold us this snake oil. Obamacare was never about health care. None of this has anything to do with HC. It all has to do with that shiny new MASSIVE database the Obama Administration will create when this monstrosity goes into full effect.
 
washunut said:
Do you know what the fine is for 2014. It will not be part of the decision to sign up or not in 2014.
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you will find out when you don't sign up and the fine is taken out of your tax refund check by the IRS unless you are a registered democrat that contributed and voted for Obama then you will get a waver to that fine
 
washunut said:
Do you know what the fine is for 2014. It will not be part of the decision to sign up or not in 2014.
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Its $0 if your income is below $10,000, $95/person or 1% of your income above $10,000. There is also a $285 family cap if the flat $ fine is the greater of the two. For example, a family of 4 without insurance would pay a $285 fine for incomes below $43,500.

Of course, if you just manage your withholdings appropriately you can avoid the penalty altogether.
 
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washunut said:
Are you saying you know how the exchanges work? Also is it a question of how the exchanges work or what the law allows?
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The exchanges are simply a place to go online that has plans from several insurers. They are simply a way to organize and compare plans. With the expansion of who will be getting insurance, insurers are offering a range of plans. As the article points out, many of these plans are cheaper, but without some of the benefits of more expensive plans.
 
Samhain said:
I didn't think low benefit plans were allowed, unless you mean Bronze = low benefit.
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Bronze plans are in fact lower benefit plans, covering only about 60 % of health care costs(very roughly).
 
trfjr said:
it called expansion of the topic that is related to the topic it isn't called moving the goal post. And I did refer to it with my statement of being lied to about how you can keep your doctor and you health plan
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Except you made a claim based on your source, which is what I am talking about, and which is in fact 100 % false. Trying to hide behind "oh, I was not talking about the OP in the OP" is not going to work.
 
Redress said:
Why do you assume I do not have insurance?
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are you so sure you will be able to keep your plan or will you be one of the millions that will be getting a letter saying your current plan is being cancelled because it doesn't meet the new requirement and need to be forced into the exchanges

what you fail to realize a lot of people have what is know as catastrophic plans they are very cheap and what most young healthy Americans only need for protection for something major to happen to their health. a lot of small business and businesses that employee a lot of part time workers offer those plans. all of them who have those plans will have them cancelled because they don't meet the Obama care requirement. so they will be forced to buy a plan they don't want at a much higher cost.
this is also one reason the very few states that will see a decrease in coverage price is because state law didn't allow those catastrophic plans to begin with. some actually had higher requirements then what Obama care requires
 
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Redress said:
Why do you assume I do not have insurance?
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I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking.

If your employer drops you from coverage, (which is happening for lots of people which is why the Unions now oppose it), would you

A) Buy HI

B) Pay the fine

Congress and Obama have exempted many of their political cronies and themselves from this law. If they can exempt themselves from the law, why shouldn't I be able to do the same thing? Remember paying the fine = NO HEALTH CARE
 
Redress said:
Except you made a claim based on your source, which is what I am talking about, and which is in fact 100 % false. Trying to hide behind "oh, I was not talking about the OP in the OP" is not going to work.
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and what claim was that? and did I refer to that original source when I made that claim? or are you just making an assumption
 
Look it up, all public employee union members are exempt from the tax element on "cadillac" plans until 2018.
Congress is not subject to obamacare nor are their employees - well except the volunteers (poor)

American said:
You have proof of these exemptions?
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