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UPDATE: 1 Syrian opposition leader says US/Russian deal a blow to the war efforts

Coin said:
Obama could be the one. :thinking
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McCain too. He's been pushing for action far longer than Obama. I wonder what Al-Qaeda promised McCain in exchange for his support for terrorists?
 
reinoe said:
The Al-Qaeda supporters aren't just on this forum, they're on many others as well. They're trying to convince Americans to contact their politicians and support Al-Qaeda. There's always an enemy within but the people on this forum have been entirely unsubtle about their wish for Al-Qaeda to take over Syria.
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I mean if people are dumb enough to buy into it, that's their prerogative.
 
DaveFagan said:
The odds are better than 50/50 that it was the rebels that used the gas. You have framed a presumption as a fact. Truth/untruth.
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You have to be consciously ignoring intelligence statements from multiple allies and our own to come to that conclusion.
 
aberrant85 said:
You have to be consciously ignoring intelligence statements from multiple allies and our own to come to that conclusion.
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Would these be the same intelligence statements which assured us that Benghazi was protest about a movie? Or would these be the ones that said Iraq was awash in WMDs? It seems that "intelligence" is only as reliable as what the official version, released for public consumption, has been editted into.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Would these be the same intelligence statements which assured us that Benghazi was protest about a movie? Or would these be the ones that said Iraq was awash in WMDs? It seems that "intelligence" is only as reliable as what the official version, released for public consumption, has been editted into.
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Some folks just can't put 2+2 together. Obama has been pushing for an attack on Syria. His plans prove incredibly unpopular. Then all of the intelligence from the Obama administration says that Assad used Sarin gas, the timing proving incredibly impeccable. Meanwhile the international community is undecided and inconclusive with their intelligence research.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Would these be the same intelligence statements which assured us that Benghazi was protest about a movie? Or would these be the ones that said Iraq was awash in WMDs? It seems that "intelligence" is only as reliable as what the official version, released for public consumption, has been editted into.
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I'd agree with your last point. I'd also point out that Bush and Rumsfeld pushed the CIA to provide information that would support their stated policy. The information coming out of Benghazi was not only not used as justification for an attack, but was soon set straight after the investigation actually concluded. Until then, it was common sense to be suspicious of the video as a trigger for the attack, which had triggered violence at the exact same time across the Middle East. So you're actually criticizing the release of intelligence during the investigation, not the definitive intelligence.

In this scenario, there is nothing to suggest to me that anyone is looking to exploit information to go to war. Everyone in this crisis has been reluctant to do anything.
 
aberrant85 said:
In this scenario, there is nothing to suggest to me that anyone is looking to exploit information to go to war. Everyone in this crisis has been reluctant to do anything.
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Obama has been pushing for war, perhaps you've can come out from under that bridge and pay a bit more attention. The only thing stopping Obama is opposition from the public.
 
Wraith8 said:
Interesting how your criticism of the bloodshed in Syria is directed ONLY at the rebels.
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What's even more interesting is how you ignorantly interpret criticizing the rebels as supporting the Assad regime.
 
reinoe said:
Some folks just can't put 2+2 together. Obama has been pushing for an attack on Syria. His plans prove incredibly unpopular. Then all of the intelligence from the Obama administration says that Assad used Sarin gas, the timing proving incredibly impeccable. Meanwhile the international community is undecided and inconclusive with their intelligence research.
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They are not undecided, they have decided not to take any part in messing with Syria. The notable exceptions are, of course, Iran and Russia that do not want the U.S. to act - so, in effect, Obama is doing precisely what Iran and Russia want him to. Let's not forget France that wants to "help" so long as we pay them handsomely for that minimal effort. ;)
 
aberrant85 said:
I'd agree with your last point. I'd also point out that Bush and Rumsfeld pushed the CIA to provide information that would support their stated policy. The information coming out of Benghazi was not only not used as justification for an attack, but was soon set straight after the investigation actually concluded. Until then, it was common sense to be suspicious of the video as a trigger for the attack, which had triggered violence at the exact same time across the Middle East. So you're actually criticizing the release of intelligence during the investigation, not the definitive intelligence.

In this scenario, there is nothing to suggest to me that anyone is looking to exploit information to go to war. Everyone in this crisis has been reluctant to do anything.
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If you break then it you own it. Obama has not been reluctant to spout off about Assad crossing "red lines", or his supporting of the FSA, only to back up his bravado with actual deeds.
 
reinoe said:
The U.S. has been training the Rebels, and by extentions Al-Qaeda, for nearly 2 years.
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Heya Reinoe. :2wave: Moreover we have been sending them Soft Aid. Plus Clinton admitted at her Friends of Syria Meeting that we were helping them evade capture. Which means Sat tracking. So we have sent small arms. Plus the CIA was suppose to be funneling in the ManPads from Libya, while making sure they didn't fall in the hands of AQ.
 
reinoe said:
McCain too. He's been pushing for action far longer than Obama. I wonder what Al-Qaeda promised McCain in exchange for his support for terrorists?
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Yeah and he has from the beginning. Preaching that Neo Con garbage. McCain didn't even know who the Hell he was meeting. Except for the SNC and FSA.

US Senator John McCain visits rebels

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The BBC's David Willis says that Senator John McCain is "bound to be emboldened" by his unannounced visit to Syria


Sen McCain has repeatedly called for the US to provide military aid to members of the Syrian insurgency

The US currently provides non-lethal aid to opposition groups in Syria, where an estimated 70,000 people have been killed since violence broke out in March 2011.

Rebels call for arms

Sen McCain, the top Republican on the Senate armed services committee, is understood to have entered Syria through Turkey and was on the ground there for several hours.

He travelled with the Syrian Emergency Task Force and met General Salim Idris, chief of staff of the rebel Free Syrian Army, as well as 18 other rebel commanders, the BBC has learned.

Gen Idris called for weapons to continue their fight, as well as a no-fly zone and air strikes on government targets.

These are all steps that Arizona Sen McCain has previously urged the Obama administration to take.....snip~

BBC News - Syria conflict: US Senator John McCain visits rebels

67149553d1372446544-u-n-investigators-say-most-syria-rebels-not-seeking-democracy-130527175644-mccainsyria-story-top.jpg


Yeah, and I like the Pic of the Rebel/Terrorist wearing the T Shirt that says the No War Generation. :lol: The Same guys that refuse Peace talks with Assad! That's a Hoot....and it aint Mr Owl's! :mrgreen:
 
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It doesn't seem that long ago (although it's been nearly 2 years) that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights was pleading for the Security Council to refer Assad to the ICC for his crimes against humanity. The death toll was only 5000 then.

Now, the UN is saying it is the worst refugee crisis for 20 years, with numbers not seen since the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and over 110,000 dead.

Just shocking. Imagine what the numbers will be in another 2 years time. It's pretty hard to just sit back and know that is happening and there's not a thing you can do to stop it.
 
Btw this is who McCain went to Visit.

Syrian Free Army names Salim Idris new chief of staff.....

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The opposition Free Syrian Army elected a new military command, replacing Colonel Riad al-Asaad with Brigadier General Salim Idris, Al Arabiya television reported early on Monday. Idris told Al Arabiya in a telephone interview that the new command was elected by hundreds of rebels.

The unified command includes many with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and to Salafists, who follow a puritanical interpretation of Islam. It excludes the most senior officers who have defected from Assad’s military, according to Reuters.

Syrian Free Army names Salim Idris new chief of staff

The general, a former lecturer at Syria's main military college, took up his post in December. He said he travels to rebel-held areas in Syria frequently, and also stays in touch with his officers by Skype.

Idris said he has repeatedly offered the West guarantees that the weapons would only be given to vetted rebel units, and that they would be returned if and when Assad is toppled. He denied that the extremists are dominant among the rebel fighters. Western-backed rebels have not explained how they would prevent Islamic militant or al-Qaida-linked fighters from seizing such weapons by force.....snip~

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/367842d350ef4f99a16ea06ab2fd8829/ML--Syria-Rebel-General

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...st-syria-rebels-not-seeking-democracy-10.html
 
Serenity said:
It doesn't seem that long ago (although it's been nearly 2 years) that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights was pleading for the Security Council to refer Assad to the ICC for his crimes against humanity. The death toll was only 5000 then.

Now, the UN is saying it is the worst refugee crisis for 20 years, with numbers not seen since the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and over 110,000 dead.

Just shocking. Imagine what the numbers will be in another 2 years time. It's pretty hard to just sit back and know that is happening and there's not a thing you can do to stop it.
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The U.S. refusing to act in the face of slaughter is nothing new. We have lots of practice. The Janjaweed terrorists taking over the Sudanese government. The Rwanda genocide. Libya, Iraq, and Egypt are both descending into chaos as religious extremists attempt to take over. Obama is silent on all fronts. It's hard to sit back? Please, if the defense contractors aren't interested in war then we do nothing. With that being said I give you John McCain...

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reinoe said:
The U.S. refusing to act in the face of slaughter is nothing new. We have lots of practice. The Janjaweed terrorists taking over the Sudanese government. The Rwanda genocide. Libya, Iraq, and Egypt are both descending into chaos as religious extremists attempt to take over. Obama is silent on all fronts. It's hard to sit back? Please, if the defense contractors aren't interested in war then we do nothing. With that being said I give you John McCain...

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:lol: The funny thing is.....Right behind Johnny Quest in the #2 slot is. Dick Durbin out of Illinois. So Neo Con and Neo lib, step by step.....until who is in charge.
 
reinoe said:
The U.S. refusing to act in the face of slaughter is nothing new. We have lots of practice. The Janjaweed terrorists taking over the Sudanese government. The Rwanda genocide. Libya, Iraq, and Egypt are both descending into chaos as religious extremists attempt to take over. Obama is silent on all fronts. It's hard to sit back? Please, if the defense contractors aren't interested in war then we do nothing. With that being said I give you John McCain...

httView attachment 67153657
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Whatever look were going for you missed.

Considering i was referring to me personally when stating that it's a pretty horrible and helpless feeling knowing that it's happening and there's not a thing you can do to stop it.
 
Montecresto said:
(Reuters) - The head of the opposition Syrian Supreme Military Council said on Saturday a U.S.-Russian agreement to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons was a blow to the two-and-a-half-year uprising to remove President Bashar al-Assad from power.


U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced the agreement on removing Syria's chemical weapons on Saturday after nearly three days of talks in Geneva.


UPDATE 1-Syrian rebel leader says US-Russian deal a blow to uprising | Reuters
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Plain and simple, the rebels wanted the U.S. to do the heavy battlefield work that they could not or would not, even as the U.S. no major interests involved. The agreement, if it is fully implemented, is a good one. It would modestly improve civilian safety (at least from one class of weaponry) and it is civilians who are the victims in the civil war.
 
aberrant85 said:
From what I understand US arms to the opposition have yet to arrive. When they do that can improve the rebels' war efforts. That and not being gassed has to count for something.
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That's not the case.

U.S. weapons reaching Syrian rebels - Washington Post

Unfortunately, as long as weapons are flowing into Syria, that country's civilian population will suffer. Neither warring party has demonstrated much concern for civilian protections according to multiple UN reports.
 
Wraith8 said:
Interesting how your criticism of the bloodshed in Syria is directed ONLY at the rebels.
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Any government would defend its right to exist. Had the US not backed the terrorists from the beginning, president Assad would have long since crushed them and we wouldn't be talking about it now.
 
Wraith8 said:
Which is pretty much the whole goal of Putin's "peace efforts" in Syria. He's been arming Assad for years and wants to keep him in power.
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And Clinton, Kerry and Pelosi have all enjoyed nice meals with him and returned saying he is a man we can work with. You know Qatar and Saudi Arabia want to put a gas pipeline to the EU and Syria's in the way, right?
 
Wraith8 said:
And I'll repeat again. It's not about what just the US media says about Assad. Every human rights organization has called out Syria for their atrocious human rights record.

Alright alright, you're a conspiracy fanatic. Okay then.
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Governments love guys like you.
 
aberrant85 said:
From what I understand US arms to the opposition have yet to arrive. When they do that can improve the rebels' war efforts. That and not being gassed has to count for something.
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You must refer to the overt arms supplies.
 
aberrant85 said:
You have to be consciously ignoring intelligence statements from multiple allies and our own to come to that conclusion.
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Do you recall how many of our ally's concurred with US intelligence that Saddam Hussein had WMD's and the smoking gun was just a mushroom cloud over a US city away?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
What's even more interesting is how you ignorantly interpret criticizing the rebels as supporting the Assad regime.
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Excellent point Mr. I overlooked by far too many on this board.
 
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