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Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase [W:68]

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:
Its been awhile but still the rose colored glasses huh?
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I know what I'm talking about. I serve right now and served on the ships with women and men, and I know what happened, and what the real information says. Most sexual assaults occur in port, in hotel rooms or apartments or BEQs or even just in port. Most are not occurring on our ships. So they would happen either way and likely in greater numbers.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
It's a Navy JAG Corps and NIS/NCIS problem not mine.

But are you suggesting that President Clinton and the Democrats screwed up by over downsizing the military, that we should put Marine detachments back on warships ? They did keep the squids in place and when stories passed through the ships company that those Marine brig guards were sadistic mother #######, there was less disciplinary problems on board the ship. Also the Marines set an example how a ship should be kept ship shape and clean, the decks were always clean, no paint flaking anywhere and the brass was even shinier.

"A ship without Marines is like a garment without buttons." — Adm David G. Farragut
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What a load of garbage. My husband served as a Marine on a ship. That ship was not in any better shape nor cleaner than any other ship. You certainly have on some bias jeans today if you honestly think that Marines, instead of leadership is what keeps a ship running well.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
What a load of garbage. My husband served as a Marine on a ship. That ship was not in any better shape nor cleaner than any other ship. You certainly have on some bias jeans today if you honestly think that Marines, instead of leadership is what keeps a ship running well.
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Did hubby serve with a Marine ship detachment on a PC Navy love boat or back during the day on a war ship ?
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Did hubby serve with a Marine ship detachment on a PC Navy love boat or back during the day on a war ship ?
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You're the one who claimed Marines onboard would be enough to ensure that they were kept cleaner and more efficient than any other ship. There are still several ships that have Marines aboard and yet they are no better or worse than any other vessels. In fact, submarines do and have always been the cleanest, best run Navy vessels because they have to. It has nothing to do with what gender is onboard, and everything to do with the level of leadership involved and need of the ship.

My ship was very clean and well run. Our crew was about 10% female and we had very little problems in our cleanliness or combat capability. We cleaned every day. It was called "Happy Hour", "sweepers", after watch cleanup, and pretty much any time besides those the CO or any leader below him wanted to make us clean. We had a critical inspection every year, plus 4 pre-inspections just for our department.

You simply have no real clue about what is truly going on in our Navy today, and the truth is that neither does NP. Things change, deal with it.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

So 1100 out of 322k breaks down to roughly .3%. The national average of sexual assault is 5.6% according to CDC. Pretty surprised by the disparity and would have thought the numbers would be closer.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Fishstyx said:
So 1100 out of 322k breaks down to roughly .3%. The national average of sexual assault is 5.6% according to CDC. Pretty surprised by the disparity and would have thought the numbers would be closer.
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The military has been hit hard by the media on their sexual assaults because we are the military. In response, we spend a lot of time putting more and more stuff in place to show the civilian population that the military is doing something about the problem. The real problem is that no one with a backbone will actually stand up to the media and the general population and say "look, we have a much better record than you all do when it comes to sexual assault, deal with it". I actually brought this up during our extra (as in beyond our annual training) sexual assault training that the military mandated we all had to take prior to the end of this fiscal year.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
The military has been hit hard by the media on their sexual assaults because we are the military. In response, we spend a lot of time putting more and more stuff in place to show the civilian population that the military is doing something about the problem. The real problem is that no one with a backbone will actually stand up to the media and the general population and say "look, we have a much better record than you all do when it comes to sexual assault, deal with it". I actually brought this up during our extra (as in beyond our annual training) sexual assault training that the military mandated we all had to take prior to the end of this fiscal year.
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I made the same argument in a round table discussion with the MCPON a few years ago. I have since retired. I am now a contractor, and watching AFN, you would think that sexual assault is epidemic.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
My ship was very clean and well run.
.
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Compared to what other ships in the past ?

Example:
Sports Illustrated magazine compares all NFL teams to the Vince Lombardi Green Bay Packers. Considered to be the last "super team" because with the merger of the NFL with the AFL it more than doubled NFL players where half of them weren't good enough to be picked up by the old NFL.

There will be years where there might be a NFL team that was better than the Packers back when they were Lombardi's Packers. But you have to have a team to compare them with and the Green Bay Packers of the 60's is the team that is used.

So which ship are you comparing your ship to as being cleaner and more efficient ? Cleaner and more efficient than the CA-134 USS Des Moines ? CVS-20 USS Bennington ?
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

apdst said:
It's funny how people who never spent anytime in the service are suddenly experts.

We said this would happen with the abolition of DADT.
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Sure did. And most people that said it would happen, even if they didn't support DADT, were called homophobes, bigots, etc. I didn't support DADT and thought it should be abolished. However, I also knew that if controls weren't put in place such as allowing guys to opt out of living in the same barracks rooms with gays, etc that assaults would go up. And that is what has happened.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Well, each bad has a good side.
I believe allowing women in Navy will decrease homosexuality. Oups.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:
Sure did. And most people that said it would happen, even if they didn't support DADT, were called homophobes, bigots, etc. I didn't support DADT and thought it should be abolished. However, I also knew that if controls weren't put in place such as allowing guys to opt out of living in the same barracks rooms with gays, etc that assaults would go up. And that is what has happened.
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Except there is no proof that assaults actually went up, but rather that reporting sexual assaults went up, particularly if the person actually was gay and could report it without worrying about their own sexuality coming out during the investigation and that discovery being used to put them out of the military simply because the information was part of the official report.

It's sort of like the whole being afraid to report a sexual assault because it happened while an underage person was drunk. I did my own share of underage drinking, and in fact had an incident that could have resulted in this dilemma for me had it not been for the "bystander intervention" (term used in our sexual assault trainings now) of some of the guys I was drinking with. And it was a situation that was more than possible happening had I not been in the military but rather in college or just out on my own at the time. I was in training, in a college town, at a house party with a bunch of people no older than 24, most younger than 21.

And, as I've said on here before, the biggest incident of male on male sexual assault occurred due to revenge and anger and humiliation involving a bunch of straight guys against their straight, male LPO, prior to DADT being repealed.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Compared to what other ships in the past ?

Example:
Sports Illustrated magazine compares all NFL teams to the Vince Lombardi Green Bay Packers. Considered to be the last "super team" because with the merger of the NFL with the AFL it more than doubled NFL players where half of them weren't good enough to be picked up by the old NFL.

There will be years where there might be a NFL team that was better than the Packers back when they were Lombardi's Packers. But you have to have a team to compare them with and the Green Bay Packers of the 60's is the team that is used.

So which ship are you comparing your ship to as being cleaner and more efficient ? Cleaner and more efficient than the CA-134 USS Des Moines ? CVS-20 USS Bennington ?
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Most likely, we are cleaner. You want to know why? I was on a nuclear carrier. We can't afford filth or rust or crap in our systems. We can't afford fod in our jet engines.

Since you can't provide any type of proof that they were cleaner or better than us, then it is all opinion anyway. You can't even legitimately say that I'm wrong since you weren't on my ship, with me and on either of those ships as well. Even if on both of those ships, you can't compare those to mine because you didn't see what I see. In fact, you don't even see what those ships are like now, let alone having the ability to compare them.

Just because a ship is from the past, doesn't make it better.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
Most likely, we are cleaner. You want to know why? I was on a nuclear carrier. We can't afford filth or rust or crap in our systems. We can't afford fod in our jet engines.

Since you can't provide any type of proof that they were cleaner or better than us, then it is all opinion anyway. You can't even legitimately say that I'm wrong since you weren't on my ship, with me and on either of those ships as well. Even if on both of those ships, you can't compare those to mine because you didn't see what I see. In fact, you don't even see what those ships are like now, let alone having the ability to compare them.

Just because a ship is from the past, doesn't make it better.
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Weren't you on the Reagan ? If so, I've been aboard the Reagan and my escort who was a Chief agreed with me that the Reagan wasn't as clean as the ships before the PC Navy.

Come on man, when the entire ship's company is suppose to turn to and man the brooms it's called Happy Hour ? Todays ships don't have enough deck apes onboard to keep the ship clean and ship shape.

They even have mattresses on the racks in todays PC Navy.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
The military has been hit hard by the media on their sexual assaults because we are the military. In response, we spend a lot of time putting more and more stuff in place to show the civilian population that the military is doing something about the problem. The real problem is that no one with a backbone will actually stand up to the media and the general population and say "look, we have a much better record than you all do when it comes to sexual assault, deal with it". I actually brought this up during our extra (as in beyond our annual training) sexual assault training that the military mandated we all had to take prior to the end of this fiscal year.
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Yeah, got roped into that as well. Was internally saying "Riiiiiggghhhht" when they kicked it off as a open "sharing" discussion format without fear of reprisal. The only reason I was surprised by the stats disparity is simply that the military is a reflection of American society as a whole. While there is a screening process designed to weed out rift raft, its not perfect and some d-bags slip through. Looking at the stats, its seems the filtering is more effective than I thought. This should honestly be something thats praised, not demogogued.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Weren't you on the Reagan ? If so, I've been aboard the Reagan and my escort who was a Chief agreed with me that the Reagan wasn't as clean as the ships before the PC Navy.

Come on man, when the entire ship's company is suppose to turn to and man the brooms it's called Happy Hour ? Todays ships don't have enough deck apes onboard to keep the ship clean and ship shape.

They even have mattresses on the racks in todays PC Navy.
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I am a Plankowner on the USS RONALD REAGAN and I can assure you, it was the cleanest ship at the carrier piers when we were in Norfolk and was substantially cleaner than than the NIMITZ when we moved to NASNI. I left in May 05, so things am have changed since then.

And yes, we had mattresses.... Can you believe how soft that has made our Sailors? Oh! For the days of hammocks!
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

roguenuke said:
Except there is no proof that assaults actually went up, but rather that reporting sexual assaults went up, particularly if the person actually was gay and could report it without worrying about their own sexuality coming out during the investigation and that discovery being used to put them out of the military simply because the information was part of the official report.

It's sort of like the whole being afraid to report a sexual assault because it happened while an underage person was drunk. I did my own share of underage drinking, and in fact had an incident that could have resulted in this dilemma for me had it not been for the "bystander intervention" (term used in our sexual assault trainings now) of some of the guys I was drinking with. And it was a situation that was more than possible happening had I not been in the military but rather in college or just out on my own at the time. I was in training, in a college town, at a house party with a bunch of people no older than 24, most younger than 21.

And, as I've said on here before, the biggest incident of male on male sexual assault occurred due to revenge and anger and humiliation involving a bunch of straight guys against their straight, male LPO, prior to DADT being repealed.
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Oh, so reporting went up? Okay, that explains all of the numbers going up then. So there's no sexual assault issue then. Yay!
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Chiefgator said:
I am a Plankowner on the USS RONALD REAGAN and I can assure you, it was the cleanest ship at the carrier piers when we were in Norfolk and was substantially cleaner than than the NIMITZ when we moved to NASNI. I left in May 05, so things am have changed since then.

And yes, we had mattresses.... Can you believe how soft that has made our Sailors? Oh! For the days of hammocks!
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I would expect a spanking new carrier would look clean. It probably had that new carrier smell didn't it ?

Just like when you buy a new car.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

I guess what I was trying to say is there are a lot of problems on a combatant at sea to handle and because of the left and their PC all we did is add another huge one that wasn't there before. I am not blaming the women or the men on the ship. I am blaming the liberals who shoved it down the Navy throat.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:
I guess what I was trying to say is there are a lot of problems on a combatant at sea to handle and because of the left and their PC all we did is add another huge one that wasn't there before. I am not blaming the women or the men on the ship. I am blaming the liberals who shoved it down the Navy throat.
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No...you are making excuses for the guys who don't have enough in their big head that they get controlled by their little head. The fact that the vast majority of those in the military are mature and able enough to control themselves shouldn't be overriden by a handful of numbskulls who shouldn't have been in the military in the first place.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

disneydude said:
No...you are making excuses for the guys who don't have enough in their big head that they get controlled by their little head. The fact that the vast majority of those in the military are mature and able enough to control themselves shouldn't be overriden by a handful of numbskulls who shouldn't have been in the military in the first place.
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This from a Liberal who hates our military, has never served in it and is clueless about what happens on a Navy Combatant. :lamo
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

What I can gather from this thread is that those who very publicly announce their military ties are the stupidest members of this forum and need their inflated egos popped.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:
This from a Liberal who hates our military, has never served in it and is clueless about what happens on a Navy Combatant. :lamo
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Sorry NP....as much as you love to claim that I hate the military, you couldn't be more wrong (what else is new). True....I didn't personally serve in the military, but you don't have to serve in the military to respect and honor the military (as much as you love to play that tired line as well). I come from a long line of military family. My Father served in the Navy during WW2. It was probably because of that that I DIDN'T serve. See....my father loved the Navy, it gave him a life that he didn't otherwise have. But unlike you, my father actually saw combat during ww2 and saw the atrocities of war. Although he respected the military, he provided a life for me that allowed me to go to college and obtain a degree without having to go into the military. This was during the 80's where we were facing the very real possibility of ending up in a war in the middle east.
The reality is, NP, you don't like the fact that women serve in the military. You don't like the fact that gays can now serve in the military. You are a stubborn old man that would prefer to keep things the way the world existed back in the 50's. Sorry...but the world evolves and the bigotry of the past is getting left behind, despite your attempts to make excuses and project blame in all the wrong places.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:
Oh, so reporting went up? Okay, that explains all of the numbers going up then. So there's no sexual assault issue then. Yay!
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Since reporting is the way that sexual assaults are known about, then yes, reporting went up. And no, there is not a bigger sexual assault issue compared to either the rest of the country, nor even to the past, particularly prior to DADT being repealed. It is really a matter of looking at all the information instead of just that which fits with what people want. And that goes for whether you are trying to blame gays for committing more sexual assaults now that they can serve openly, blame women on ships for someone sexually assaulting them, mainly in port, or trying to claim that the military is some breeding ground for sexual assaults unseen by the rest of the country or world or any other work place.
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

APACHERAT said:
Weren't you on the Reagan ? If so, I've been aboard the Reagan and my escort who was a Chief agreed with me that the Reagan wasn't as clean as the ships before the PC Navy.

Come on man, when the entire ship's company is suppose to turn to and man the brooms it's called Happy Hour ? Todays ships don't have enough deck apes onboard to keep the ship clean and ship shape.

They even have mattresses on the racks in todays PC Navy.
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No, I was on the Lincoln.

And I don't care what some old guy has to say. It doesn't make him or you correct in those opinions. It is extremely common for most older people to think that things were better in the past, when they served, or where they were before.

And OMG, you mean allowing us to get good sleep is such an issue that it must be decreasing our effectiveness? What in the heck are you smoking?
 
Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Fishstyx said:
Yeah, got roped into that as well. Was internally saying "Riiiiiggghhhht" when they kicked it off as a open "sharing" discussion format without fear of reprisal. The only reason I was surprised by the stats disparity is simply that the military is a reflection of American society as a whole. While there is a screening process designed to weed out rift raft, its not perfect and some d-bags slip through. Looking at the stats, its seems the filtering is more effective than I thought. This should honestly be something thats praised, not demogogued.
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Oh, sexist or not, no one said much when I was the main one bringing up the issues that come from the way they want to treat sexual assault accusations in the Navy, particularly telling us that essentially any person (but essentially "guy") accused of sexual assault is automatically assumed guilty unless he can prove himself innocent. It is absolutely wrong, and that is PC, but it has absolutely nothing to do with either women in the military or gays serving openly, as some on here often try to insinuate or even just plain out assert.

We honestly do a pretty good job at combating sexual assault, and our numbers show that we are much better at it than the majority of the rest of the country, and most likely even other work places and/or school environments, going way too overboard in many cases.
 
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