Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase [W:68]

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

The Navy had plenty of problems before women were added to the equation aboard combatants.

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You could pretty much say that about anything you wish to discuss. :shrug:

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

Whether you like it or not my left wing friend its a fact...In either case unwanted sexual advances are wrong....The difference is my left wing friend that in the Navy ships spend a long time at sea. In the civilian community that is not the case...In the civilian community you can go home at 1600. At sea aboard a ship its 24/7. That is what I meant by the environment which you seem not to get.

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This isn't wholly accurate. The US has a rather extensive civilian marine sector including companies where their personnel stay on board ship for weeks on end. And yet I rarely hear of rapes done on some civilian ship.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Bob N said:

You could pretty much say that about anything you wish to discuss. :shrug:

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Sure but they don't affect the national security of this country.......If you want to make something a social experiment what Liberals who have never served like to do, make it on some other organization.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Kal'Stang said:

This isn't wholly accurate. The US has a rather extensive civilian marine sector including companies where their personnel stay on board ship for weeks on end. And yet I rarely hear of rapes done on some civilian ship.

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I can only speak about what I know about Navy ships. I was stationed on 6 of them during my Naval Career............Sorry

Navy Pride said:

I told all you "feel Good" Liberals a long time ago that women serving on Navy combatants at sea would never work....Its really the tip of the iceberg.



Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase - ABC News





NORFOLK, Va. September 11, 2013 (AP)

By BROCK VERGAKIS Associated Press




Associated Press



The number of sexual assaults reported to the Navy has grown by about 50 percent in the past year, which Navy officials said Wednesday is a sign that a growing number of sailors feel more comfortable reporting an assault and believe something will be done about it when they do.

The Navy said it is on pace to end the 2013 fiscal year later this month with about 1,100 reports of sexual assault. That's up from the 726 sexual assaults reported in the previous fiscal year

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Although I admire their heroism, I've never felt good about women in combat. I never imagined however the biggest threat to their safety would be their fellow American servicemen. Why any lady would want to join any branch of the military especially the US Military Academies in light of the horrific reports we see over and over again is a total mystery.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Is this thread about women on combat ships or is it a troll thread for liberal scum? I'm confused.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

I can only speak about what I know about Navy ships. I was stationed on 6 of them during my Naval Career............Sorry

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So you really don't know if there actually is a difference between Navy Ships and other civilian ships at seas in regards to rape cases.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

Sure but they don't affect the national security of this country.......

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Sir: you tell that to the people that manned the radar system at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941. I'm sorry but yes it does.

You tell that to the intelligence community that was warned repeatedly about the people - that were eventually trained to fly planes in to buildings - about them being heavily suspected in terrorists activities from various sources. I'm sorry but yes it does.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Kal'Stang said:

So you really don't know if there actually is a difference between Navy Ships and other civilian ships at seas in regards to rape cases.

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That is true..When I started this thread it was about the Navy and that was the link I provided. I don't know what goes on aboard civilian maritime ships. I guess you could find some info on that and start a thread if you like. My concern is the U.S. Navy and our national defense being hampered by social experimentation.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Bob N said:

Sir: you tell that to the people that manned the radar system at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941. I'm sorry but yes it does.

You tell that to the intelligence community that was warned repeatedly about the people - that were eventually trained to fly planes in to buildings - about them being heavily suspected in terrorists activities from various sources. I'm sorry but yes it does.

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I don't know who manned the radars in 1941 at Pearl but it was not female sailors although I would not have a problem with that.......

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

That is true..When I started this thread it was about the Navy and that was the link I provided. I don't know what goes on aboard civilian maritime ships. I guess you could find some info on that and start a thread if you like. My concern is the U.S. Navy and our national defense being hampered by social experimentation.

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You said that the difference between the civilian sector vs the Navy is that ....

The difference is my left wing friend that in the Navy ships spend a long time at sea. In the civilian community that is not the case...In the civilian community you can go home at 1600. At sea aboard a ship its 24/7. That is what I meant by the environment which you seem not to get.

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Yet when comparisons are made you admit you don't know that it actually is different. How can you argue something when you don't know the difference? Your statement may be correct on land. But the Navy does not work on land. It works on the sea. As such a valid comparison would be the civilian equivalent, civilian merchantships.

Now my question to you would be, if rapes happen less on civilian ships than Navy ships...what is the difference? It can't be the amount of time spent on ships as they are comparable.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Kal'Stang said:

You said that the difference between the civilian sector vs the Navy is that ....



Yet when comparisons are made you admit you don't know that it actually is different. How can you argue something when you don't know the difference? Your statement may be correct on land. But the Navy does not work on land. It works on the sea. As such a valid comparison would be the civilian equivalent, civilian merchantships.

Now my question to you would be, if rapes happen less on civilian ships than Navy ships...what is the difference? It can't be the amount of time spent on ships as they are comparable.

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I was talking about the civilian sector in general where men and women work together...Of course there are exceptions to every rule my friend.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

I was talking about the civilian sector in general where men and women work together...Of course there are exceptions to every rule my friend.

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Well, if we're talking generally then you can't really narrow down to one specific reason. IE: on the ships for weeks on end. If you do then the results will just get distorted because you are narrowing down one thing while not narrowing down the other.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

I had a bunch more comments, but I'm going to leave it to just the problematic assumptions about the various genders.

Navy Pride said:

I blame anyone who is found guilty of unwanted sexual advances. What I m telling you but you don't want to hear it is before women served aboard combatants we never had this problem..

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Instead, rapist sailors just raped civilians. Yes, when rapists don't have victims to rape, they don't rape them. But what kind of backwards idea is it to coddle the rapists and punish the victims? Tell me, do you think that women would be less often the victims of rape if they were always escorted by a male keeper? You're suggesting limiting women's choices because men just can't help but rape them, right? Why not follow that line of thinking past the navy?

Navy Pride said:

She is not alone. In the Navy its zero tolerance...A female might not like a male and she accused him of sexual advances.....His career is finished.

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And you think that one gender over another is more inclined to falsely accuse someone of this? We keep coming back to you blaming problems on women as a whole, like tempting men and lying to men is just in their nature.

MarineTpartier said:

I think what he's saying, and I agree, is that the females should have never been put in a spot where they could be assaulted. Sure, it would still happen sometimes. But, if you notice, the more we integrate sexes, the more males and females work together, the more assaults occur. It's the nature of the beast. Just because it's the military doesn't mean we are impervious to things like this. We have bad apples just like the civilian world does.

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So, it's just in men's nature to rape? And you're okay with this? What else should we not let women do because men can't help themselves?

Just so we're clear, I'm pretty offended whenever someone contends that I, as a man, am just built to be rape-y. If you're okay with it, you should re-evaluate your view of yourself.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Kal'Stang said:

Well, if we're talking generally then you can't really narrow down to one specific reason. IE: on the ships for weeks on end. If you do then the results will just get distorted because you are narrowing down one thing while not narrowing down the other.

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726 sexual assaults in the Navy last year. a couple hundred more then the previous year...Those are the facts.
I truly believe that the only way you can solve this problem is to have one sex ships but that will never happen.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Paschendale said:

I had a bunch more comments, but I'm going to leave it to just the problematic assumptions about the various genders.



Instead, rapist sailors just raped civilians. Yes, when rapists don't have victims to rape, they don't rape them. But what kind of backwards idea is it to coddle the rapists and punish the victims? Tell me, do you think that women would be less often the victims of rape if they were always escorted by a male keeper? You're suggesting limiting women's choices because men just can't help but rape them, right? Why not follow that line of thinking past the navy?



And you think that one gender over another is more inclined to falsely accuse someone of this? We keep coming back to you blaming problems on women as a whole, like tempting men and lying to men is just in their nature.



So, it's just in men's nature to rape? And you're okay with this? What else should we not let women do because men can't help themselves?

Just so we're clear, I'm pretty offended whenever someone contends that I, as a man, am just built to be rape-y. If you're okay with it, you should re-evaluate your view of yourself.

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Man you are really out in left field. I see your a socialist but still there is no excuse for what you have stated.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

726 sexual assaults in the Navy last year. a couple hundred more then the previous year...Those are the facts.
I truly believe that the only way you can solve this problem is to have one sex ships but that will never happen.

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Well yeah, you could also put everyone in a bubble and then no crimes at all would ever happen. Some times you have to weigh the pro's and the con's. So...what are the pro's and the con's of having women on ships? We already have one con. So what would be a pro?

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Navy Pride said:

Man you are really out in left field. I see your a socialist but still there is no excuse for what you have stated.

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The nonsensical lean attacks aside, that men can't help but force themselves on women, and so women must be removed from the equation, is the central premise of your argument. I take a lot of offense at that. My gender doesn't make me a rapist. Why do you think it makes you one?

Navy Pride said:

726 sexual assaults in the Navy last year. a couple hundred more then the previous year...Those are the facts.
I truly believe that the only way you can solve this problem is to have one sex ships but that will never happen.

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Got that? You truly believe that there is no way for men and women to serve on a ship together without the men forcing themselves sexually on women. You are contending that sexual assaults are an intrinsic part of masculinity. Don't you get pissed off when feminists say that?

So seriously, stop being dismissive and answer the question. Do you really think that men cannot help themselves? Why do you think so little of our gender? And how do men not have the moral obligation to rise above that baser nature? Why should women be stripped of an opportunity and not men... all because men can't help themselves?

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Paschendale said:

So, it's just in men's nature to rape? And you're okay with this? What else should we not let women do because men can't help themselves?

Just so we're clear, I'm pretty offended whenever someone contends that I, as a man, am just built to be rape-y. If you're okay with it, you should re-evaluate your view of yourself.

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Yeah, it is in SOME men's nature to rape. You act as if I said all men rape all women. Read what I friggin said. I said the more women are around men, the more rapes will occur. It's inevitable. That's with anything in life. If you drive more, you're more apt to wreck. If you play sports, you're more apt to be injured. The more women are around men, the more likely it is that a woman will run across a man who will sexually assault her. It's the way the world works. And NOWHERE in my post did I say it was okay bro. If you can point it out, I'd love to see it. You just decided you didn't like what I said and tried to take it to an extreme because you really have no counterpoint or understanding of what I'm talking about.
The fact of the matter is that we can't predict what men will sexually assault women. We can't control that. The one thing we CAN CONTROL is the amount of time women spend time around men in confined/stressful/austere environments. When our leadership, civilian and military, decide they want to allow women to be in areas or MOS's that will make them be around men more often, they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. All men know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. We all know we'll go to jail for it. Yet some of us still do it. So really there's no other logical thing to do other than separate men and women in the military. Politicians and General officers have decided that equality is more important than safety. And here we are.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:

The fact of the matter is that we can't predict what men will sexually assault women. We can't control that. The one thing we CAN CONTROL is the amount of time women spend time around men in confined/stressful/austere environments. When our leadership, civilian and military, decide they want to allow women to be in areas or MOS's that will make them be around men more often, they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. All men know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. We all know we'll go to jail for it. Yet some of us still do it. So really there's no other logical thing to do other than separate men and women in the military. Politicians and General officers have decided that equality is more important than safety. And here we are.

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Except that, as it has been pointed out over and over again in this thread, a lot of it goes unreported. A lot of it goes unpunished. And that won't do. A lot of men don't know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. In fact, that there were no circumstances where it was okay is a relatively new concept. Remember, when you were born, it was legal for husbands to rape their wives in most states. So no, there is plenty logical to do besides segregate women out of opportunities that we reserve to men. You teach men not to freaking rape anyone.

Navy Pride said:

I told all you "feel Good" Liberals a long time ago that women serving on Navy combatants at sea would never work....Its really the tip of the iceberg.



Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase - ABC News





NORFOLK, Va. September 11, 2013 (AP)

By BROCK VERGAKIS Associated Press




Associated Press



The number of sexual assaults reported to the Navy has grown by about 50 percent in the past year, which Navy officials said Wednesday is a sign that a growing number of sailors feel more comfortable reporting an assault and believe something will be done about it when they do.

The Navy said it is on pace to end the 2013 fiscal year later this month with about 1,100 reports of sexual assault. That's up from the 726 sexual assaults reported in the previous fiscal year

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The big problem I have with this is that it is looked at as if it is a recent problem. The truth of the matter is that sexual assault and rape are actually WAY DOWN in the military. A few factors are driving the upward trend in numbers. One factor is the reporting system. The reporting system gives victims options they did not have before to report sexual assaults and rapes. Victims can remain anonymous until the investigation is completed and charges are filed. This was a much needed change.... However, while this was a positive change, the negative change is the expansion of the definition of sexual assault. Simply put, sexual assault is defined by the offended individual. Simply looking at a female the wrong way can be sexual assault in the military. The other negative aspect is that since reported sexual assaults and rapes have gone up due to the ease of reporting and not because there has been an actual increase in the number of sexual assaults and rapes, there has been a lot of alarmism and knee jerk reactions. This has allowed more frivilous and false claims lead to prosecution of innocent people. There has not been a counter ballance to this such as sever punishments for false reporting, nor has there been emphisis on investigating the credibility of the claim. In many cases, the credibility of the victim is not admissable in court.

So all in all, this has been a negative thing for victims of real sexual assault and rape along with the protection of false accusations.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

MarineTpartier said:

Yeah, it is in SOME men's nature to rape. You act as if I said all men rape all women. Read what I friggin said. I said the more women are around men, the more rapes will occur. It's inevitable. That's with anything in life. If you drive more, you're more apt to wreck. If you play sports, you're more apt to be injured. The more women are around men, the more likely it is that a woman will run across a man who will sexually assault her. It's the way the world works. And NOWHERE in my post did I say it was okay bro. If you can point it out, I'd love to see it. You just decided you didn't like what I said and tried to take it to an extreme because you really have no counterpoint or understanding of what I'm talking about.
The fact of the matter is that we can't predict what men will sexually assault women. We can't control that. The one thing we CAN CONTROL is the amount of time women spend time around men in confined/stressful/austere environments. When our leadership, civilian and military, decide they want to allow women to be in areas or MOS's that will make them be around men more often, they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. All men know it's not okay to sexually assault a woman. We all know we'll go to jail for it. Yet some of us still do it. So really there's no other logical thing to do other than separate men and women in the military. Politicians and General officers have decided that equality is more important than safety. And here we are.

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Well since rapes happen each year in the U.S. and obviously men can't control themselves we should get rid of all women in the U.S. as well since men can't control themselves according to your logic.

I have never seen a bunch of apologetics to rapists as I have seen in this thread. I guess using your logic marines and navy have absolutely NO discipline.

now given what I've seen you are wrong and navy and marines DO have discipline but if you are saying they can't keep their hands off women and act professionally you are degrading the military.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

TheNextEra said:

Well since rapes happen each year in the U.S. and obviously men can't control themselves we should get rid of all women in the U.S. as well since men can't control themselves according to your logic.

I have never seen a bunch of apologetics to rapists as I have seen in this thread. I guess using your logic marines and navy have absolutely NO discipline.

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Rape apologists? What exactly do you define as a rape apologist. Certainly, there are victims of rape and there should be punishments handed out for the perpetrators if the evidence supports the charge. But today, the court system and society as a whole is creating an evironment where claims can be made and are held up regaurdless of the credibility of the claim. In any other case such as murder, theft, or any other crime, the strength of the evidence must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused committed the crime. In rape cases, many times a simple allegation is evidence enough to convict someone. Not sure if you have been watching the news, but recently there have been cases of men wrongly accused who have spent years in prison. The cases were based on testimony and accusation alone. And in many states, the credibility of the victim is not allowed to be questioned in court or used against the victim.

Navy Pride said:

I told all you "feel Good" Liberals a long time ago that women serving on Navy combatants at sea would never work....Its really the tip of the iceberg.



Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase - ABC News





NORFOLK, Va. September 11, 2013 (AP)

By BROCK VERGAKIS Associated Press




Associated Press



The number of sexual assaults reported to the Navy has grown by about 50 percent in the past year, which Navy officials said Wednesday is a sign that a growing number of sailors feel more comfortable reporting an assault and believe something will be done about it when they do.

The Navy said it is on pace to end the 2013 fiscal year later this month with about 1,100 reports of sexual assault. That's up from the 726 sexual assaults reported in the previous fiscal year

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Let me clear something up for you...

increase in "sexual assaults reported" =/= increase in sexual assaults

You've proven nothing. In the past reporting it was more likely to have you face retaliation than today.

Re: Official: Reports of Sex Assault in Navy Increase

Capster78 said:

Rape apologists? What exactly do you define as a rape apologist. Certainly, there are victims of rape and there should be punishments handed out for the perpetrators if the evidence supports the charge.

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Rape apologists are those blaming people putting women in the military for rapes instead of blaming the people who actually do the rapes.