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Adopted girl says mother forced her to dig her own grave

I didn't say the current system was working well, but there are other options besides judging people and imposing fees.

OK, what is your solution? You were willing to read mine (even if you didn't agree) so I'll read yours with interest.
 
These sort of illegal arrangements need to be cracked down on. These children are at risk. If you read the whole Reuters report, you'll see a story about a boy being "re-homed" in another state with a pedophile.

If governments are going to have a say in who gets to adopt (which they do), they should be looking at these "under the table" adoptions. If these kids were adopted internationally (which many were), they were OKed by the Departments of State and Homeland Security. Yet once they get in the country, the government turns a blind eye.

I find it disturbing that someone who is pro-life seems to think that this is about small government. Do you even care about the kids' welfare, or are they on their own after birth?

Well, you certainly make a whole lot of assumption about me for asking a simple question don't you? Look, I can agree that if we are to allow government to say what, or who is ok to adopt in an international sense then the onus is on them to vet the prospective parent/parents fully to ensure that the child is going to a good home.

But in a limited sense I think that we should be focusing on American children first...This story is about a horribly unqualified parent torturing a child, and should face the harshest of penalties for her actions. Is it a perfect world? Hell no. But, 'government' is not always the answer to everything.
 
Well, you certainly make a whole lot of assumption about me for asking a simple question don't you? Look, I can agree that if we are to allow government to say what, or who is ok to adopt in an international sense then the onus is on them to vet the prospective parent/parents fully to ensure that the child is going to a good home.

But in a limited sense I think that we should be focusing on American children first...This story is about a horribly unqualified parent torturing a child, and should face the harshest of penalties for her actions. Is it a perfect world? Hell no. But, 'government' is not always the answer to everything.

It's a part of a whole investigation into "re-homing" which occurs under the radar, it's not one story about one kid. Even so, child safety is a place for the "government" to get involved.

And these are American children. According to the law, they become American citizens when the plane lands. It also is happening to children who were born and adopted within the US. By any measure, they are Americans.
 
Of course that's all you saw. It's all you wanted to see.

Your first thought was to blame Libbos and deflect to guns. If you had an actual point, now's your chance to clarify it.
 
It's a part of a whole investigation into "re-homing" which occurs under the radar, it's not one story about one kid. Even so, child safety is a place for the "government" to get involved.

And these are American children. According to the law, they become American citizens when the plane lands. It also is happening to children who were born and adopted within the US. By any measure, they are Americans.

State or Federal?
 
This is just one more reason supporting the assertion that the state has no place in regulating parents and children. Who is the state to tell this mother she can't abuse her kids as she see fits? This is just an intrusion intro privacy. I mean, we can deny kids healthcare but we can't make them dig their own graves? What's next? We can't bring them into religious cults that place their lives in danger? This is an affront to freedom of parenthood. Endangering my kids is a right damn it.
Crap, but creative.

You do pose a good question though - "who is the State to..." < Fill in the blank > ?

What makes the State a decent arbiter of.... anything? And why are some so totally enamored with the State's ability to "cure" issues like this one? Is the State a demonstrably good parent that it can dictate, let alone enforce what makes a "good parent?" What is the State's record as a parent? How many kids has the State had? What was their GPA in school?

I know who speaks for the State - politicians who we seem to eagerly listen to, and vote for, but whose own personal lives we conveniently and often embarrassingly ignore.

I know everyone here reading this would eagerly have the State into their home to "inspect" how they were doing with their kids, their chores, their... yes even their taxes. The State is so wonderful, we'd have them over for beer and brats, to listen to their wisdom, to sit at their compassionate feet. We'd shower them with laurels and rose petals. We'd confess our every sin to them, begging for forgiveness and restoration. We'd tell our friends about the State, how excited we are to have them visit us. We'd invite them over to meet the State so they too could be as blessed as we...

NOT.
 
So, should permits be required to have children? Including a background check? How about a $5K license fee (goes into the child's education or SS fund)?

It would end the tea party in a generation or two. Not a bad idea.
 
Crap, but creative.

You do pose a good question though - "who is the State to..." < Fill in the blank > ?

What makes the State a decent arbiter of.... anything? And why are some so totally enamored with the State's ability to "cure" issues like this one? Is the State a demonstrably good parent that it can dictate, let alone enforce what makes a "good parent?" What is the State's record as a parent? How many kids has the State had? What was their GPA in school?

I know who speaks for the State - politicians who we seem to eagerly listen to, and vote for, but whose own personal lives we conveniently and often embarrassingly ignore.

I know everyone here reading this would eagerly have the State into their home to "inspect" how they were doing with their kids, their chores, their... yes even their taxes. The State is so wonderful, we'd have them over for beer and brats, to listen to their wisdom, to sit at their compassionate feet. We'd shower them with laurels and rose petals. We'd confess our every sin to them, begging for forgiveness and restoration. We'd tell our friends about the State, how excited we are to have them visit us. We'd invite them over to meet the State so they too could be as blessed as we...

NOT.

The state seems to be doing a pretty good job at taking abused children away from overzealous conservatives and flower power commune liberals. I trust it more than I do the average nutbag that makes their kid dig their own grave.
 
mmmk, so what part of the Constitution covers that? Commerce clause?

You could say that. Though your sudden interest in "the Constitution" is fascinating. How about the same part of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to ban partial birth abortion? The same part that puts drug trafficking in the hands of the federal government.

Like it or not, these children are being trafficked across state lines for purposes that aren't in their best interest. Admit it - you are trying to find any excuse to allow this to continue. Why?
 
Crap, but creative.

You do pose a good question though - "who is the State to..." < Fill in the blank > ?

What makes the State a decent arbiter of.... anything? And why are some so totally enamored with the State's ability to "cure" issues like this one? Is the State a demonstrably good parent that it can dictate, let alone enforce what makes a "good parent?" What is the State's record as a parent? How many kids has the State had? What was their GPA in school?

I know who speaks for the State - politicians who we seem to eagerly listen to, and vote for, but whose own personal lives we conveniently and often embarrassingly ignore.

I know everyone here reading this would eagerly have the State into their home to "inspect" how they were doing with their kids, their chores, their... yes even their taxes. The State is so wonderful, we'd have them over for beer and brats, to listen to their wisdom, to sit at their compassionate feet. We'd shower them with laurels and rose petals. We'd confess our every sin to them, begging for forgiveness and restoration. We'd tell our friends about the State, how excited we are to have them visit us. We'd invite them over to meet the State so they too could be as blessed as we...

NOT.

So instead, we should just let people hand their children over to pedophiles?

What everyone is missing here is that it's not this "dig your own grave" incident. This is part of a large underground child trafficking network. Read the Reuters report this story came from.

In case anyone is actually interested: Reuters Investigates - The Child Exchange
 
And people wonder why I am against adoption and would abort before handing a child over to others to raise .....
 
So instead, we should just let people hand their children over to pedophiles?
I'm more surprised that unwanted children aren't more frequently being harvested for their organs.
 
This is probably even more common than we think.
 
Terrible. Yeah just "Wait here for a few months and we will be right back to get you."
 
The state seems to be doing a pretty good job at taking abused children away from overzealous conservatives and flower power commune liberals. I trust it more than I do the average nutbag that makes their kid dig their own grave.
Well, if your world consists of "flower power commune liberals," "overzealous conservatives," "average nutbags," and... the State, then perhaps that makes sense.
 
People do horrible things like to their own children. I am not sure there is anything that can be done. There will always be gaps.

I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. Problem is that even with background checks and other precautions, things like this still happen. You can't catch them all.
 
Crap, but creative.

You do pose a good question though - "who is the State to..." < Fill in the blank > ?

What makes the State a decent arbiter of.... anything? And why are some so totally enamored with the State's ability to "cure" issues like this one? Is the State a demonstrably good parent that it can dictate, let alone enforce what makes a "good parent?" What is the State's record as a parent? How many kids has the State had? What was their GPA in school?

I know who speaks for the State - politicians who we seem to eagerly listen to, and vote for, but whose own personal lives we conveniently and often embarrassingly ignore.

I know everyone here reading this would eagerly have the State into their home to "inspect" how they were doing with their kids, their chores, their... yes even their taxes. The State is so wonderful, we'd have them over for beer and brats, to listen to their wisdom, to sit at their compassionate feet. We'd shower them with laurels and rose petals. We'd confess our every sin to them, begging for forgiveness and restoration. We'd tell our friends about the State, how excited we are to have them visit us. We'd invite them over to meet the State so they too could be as blessed as we...

NOT.

Nah, we're far better off keeping the state out of all of this stuff, and if a few kids - or a hundred thousand - get killed or abused by their parents, hey them's the breaks. Wouldn't want them damned social workers trying to protect kids, would we?
 
You could say that. Though your sudden interest in "the Constitution" is fascinating. How about the same part of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to ban partial birth abortion? The same part that puts drug trafficking in the hands of the federal government.

Like it or not, these children are being trafficked across state lines for purposes that aren't in their best interest. Admit it - you are trying to find any excuse to allow this to continue. Why?

Always must take the extreme emotional tact, eh?
 
Nah, we're far better off keeping the state out of all of this stuff, and if a few kids - or a hundred thousand - get killed or abused by their parents, hey them's the breaks. Wouldn't want them damned social workers trying to protect kids, would we?
Now there's the attitude! :doh
 
Always must take the extreme emotional tact, eh?


It's an extremely emotional subject that's close to my heart. Kids adopted from other countries that have psychological problems as a result of that? That's a description of my family.
 
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