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On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long [W:29, 210]

Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

AGENT J said:
oh ****
wait a minute

i have a mustache
Hitler has a mustache

oh no, i must be Hitler!!!
Click to expand...

Heil Agent J!
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

AGENT J said:
i don't know what their agenda is or if they have an united agenda but why would anybody support pedophilia and child rape.
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Why would anybody support gay marriage? It's clear lots of gay people don't. Why should society change and take the risks that go with it for a relative handful of people who can live the life they want anyway?

But some people demand change. And they will in other areas too. Pandora's box has almost been fully opened and if it ever does we will witness the same thing, the same words, the same accusations, that have been made for gay marriage for people wanting to legitimize other lifestyles.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

CriticalThought said:
I get tired of the Association Fallacy.

1. NAMBLA is a homosexual organization.
2. NAMBLA wants to legalize adults having sex with minors.
3. Therefore, all homosexuals want to legalize adults having sex with minors.

That is the crux of the logic. Anyone who cannot see how that is fallacious or baiting is probably not worth trying to convince otherwise.
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You can not credit me with saying all homosexuals want to legalize adults having sex with minors. I just pointed to the connection of NAMBLA with homosexuality and the founder of the first gay rights movement had associations with NAMBLA.

I very much doubt that many straight people who support gay marriage are aware of that fact maybe it would matter to some and then again maybe not.

Nor do I believe there are many who understand the consequences of trampling the rights of conscience of those who can not support gay marriage in the name of stomping out discrimination. When political appointed federal judges can do that hello Houston we have a problem.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

ItAin'tFree said:
1.)Why would anybody support gay marriage?
2.) It's clear lots of gay people don't.
3.) Why should society change and take the risks that go with it for a relative handful of people who can live the life they want anyway?
4.)But some people demand change.
5.) And they will in other areas too.
6.) Pandora's box has almost been fully opened and if it ever does we will witness the same thing, the same words, the same accusations, that have been made for gay marriage for people wanting to legitimize other lifestyles.
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1.) people are weird they like thier fellow Americans having equal rights and not being discriminated again
2.) i saw a black nazi on jerry springer once too with a swastika tattoo so what, thats meaningless
3.) what risk lol why did we give minorities rights? women rights?
4.) no many people, not some want equality and to help end discrimination
5.) this is always true but thats meaningless true, rapist ant that to be legal, killers want that to be legal, child molesters want that legal. What does that have to do with equal rights for gays? nothing
6.) nope this is false unless of course you are talking about some other group that would be fighting for equal rights and end discrimination against them based on laws, rights and various constitutions.

any examples? i might support them too?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

vesper said:
You can not credit me with saying all homosexuals want to legalize adults having sex with minors. I just pointed to the connection of NAMBLA with homosexuality and the founder of the first gay rights movement had associations with NAMBLA.

1.)I very much doubt that many straight people who support gay marriage are aware of that fact maybe it would matter to some and then again maybe not.

2.)Nor do I believe there are many who understand the consequences of trampling the rights of conscience of those who can not support gay marriage in the name of stomping out discrimination. When political appointed federal judges can do that hello Houston we have a problem.
Click to expand...

1.)i was aware because somebody tried this failed argument and meaningless point before, it failed then also.
2.) no rights are being trampled in reality by granting equal rights and ending discrimination
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

ItAin'tFree said:
Why would anybody support gay marriage?
Click to expand...

Because it's the intelligent thing to do.

Gay marriage hurts nobody, and helps others.

There is no "pandora's box" regarding gay marriage.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

vesper said:
Nor do I believe there are many who understand the consequences of trampling the rights of conscience of those who can not support gay marriage in the name of stomping out discrimination. When political appointed federal judges can do that hello Houston we have a problem.
Click to expand...

What consequences?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

CaptainCourtesy said:
No, you are incorrect. The story about Sodom and Gommorah was about homosexual rape as I showed. As far as Leviticus, here is what those passages really meant:
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Various versions of Leviticus 18:22:
"Thou shalt not lie with the male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." 1599 Geneva Bible
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." American Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Amplified Bible
"You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice." Common English Bible
"You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Complete Jewish Bible
"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man." Contemporary English Version
"And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination." Darby Translation
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination." Douay Reims 1899 American Edition
"Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!" ERV
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version, Anglicized
"You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." EXB
"No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that." GNT
"You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable." HCSB
"Thou shalt not lie with males as with women; it is abomination." Jubilee 2000 Bible
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." King James Version
"And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing." Lexham English Bible
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." New American Standard Bible
"You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." New Century Version
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." New International Version
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing." New Life Version
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." New Living Translation
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." New Revised Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Revised Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable." World English Bible
"And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is]." Young's Literal Translation.

Personally? I think I'll go with a whole host of actual biblical scholars from the 15th century to today who have translated that verse re the above rather than entertain (though entertaining it certainly is) the "CaptainCourtesy" version of the bible.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

ItAin'tFree said:
Why would anybody support gay marriage? It's clear lots of gay people don't. Why should society change and take the risks that go with it for a relative handful of people who can live the life they want anyway?

But some people demand change. And they will in other areas too. Pandora's box has almost been fully opened and if it ever does we will witness the same thing, the same words, the same accusations, that have been made for gay marriage for people wanting to legitimize other lifestyles.
Click to expand...
It's much more puzzling that people opposite SSM when it has no real effects on them.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

EdwinWillers said:
Various versions of Leviticus 18:22:
"Thou shalt not lie with the male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." 1599 Geneva Bible
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." American Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Amplified Bible
"You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice." Common English Bible
"You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Complete Jewish Bible
"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man." Contemporary English Version
"And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination." Darby Translation
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination." Douay Reims 1899 American Edition
"Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!" ERV
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." English Standard Version, Anglicized
"You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." EXB
"No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that." GNT
"You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable." HCSB
"Thou shalt not lie with males as with women; it is abomination." Jubilee 2000 Bible
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." King James Version
"And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing." Lexham English Bible
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." New American Standard Bible
"You must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin." New Century Version
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." New International Version
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing." New Life Version
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." New Living Translation
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." New Revised Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Revised Standard Version
"You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable." World English Bible
"And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is]." Young's Literal Translation.

Personally? I think I'll go with a whole host of actual biblical scholars from the 15th century to today who have translated that verse re the above rather than entertain (though entertaining it certainly is) the "CaptainCourtesy" version of the bible.
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What exactly has biblical horse excrement have to do with same-sex marriage in the USofA????
 
Dragonfly said:
Why is all your attention to homosexual=pedophilia based on male pedophilia?

What about the lesbians?

Why are you so sexist?

Don't you care about the little girls being sexually abused by older women????


Face it man.....you've lost all credibility in this fight. All of it.

The nation is heading towards equal marriage rights for gays.
And many of us are quite comfortable with that.

Even us straight people.
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Did you really read what you just posted?
Now I am discriminating against male pedophiles? Seriously?
No I don't think I have lost all credibility.
Though extreme examples, the goal was to make aware that LAWS can and do change things and open doors to things than have always been understood by the majority in our society to remain closed. There are consequences for changing the definition of marriage in this country.
 
vesper said:
Did you really read what you just posted?
Now I am discriminating against male pedophiles? Seriously?
No I don't think I have lost all credibility.
Though extreme examples, the goal was to make aware that LAWS can and do change things and open doors to things than have always been understood by the majority in our society to remain closed. There are consequences for changing the definition of marriage in this country.
Click to expand...

you keep repeating this failed line and yet have no examples, logic or facts that support you.

what consequence are you referring to?
 
vesper said:
Did you really read what you just posted?
Now I am discriminating against male pedophiles? Seriously?
No I don't think I have lost all credibility.
Though extreme examples, the goal was to make aware that LAWS can and do change things and open doors to things than have always been understood by the majority in our society to remain closed. There are consequences for changing the definition of marriage in this country.
Click to expand...

What consequences?
 
Jinx 1 2 3 agent j owes me a coke!
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

CriticalThought said:
Actually, the Bible provides the justification for defining sodomy the way it has been done. ANY sex outside of marriage and outside of the purpose of procreation is seen as unnatural and outside of the will of God.
Click to expand...
Actually, it doesn't. Neither does merely *saying* it does. There are a host of other sexual activities that describe behaviors other than specifically homosexual behavior at outside the will of God.

CriticalThought said:
That is why I don't give two craps when most folk try to reference the Bible in this respect.
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Contrary to what you might think, how you crap is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

CriticalThought said:
They generally are people who had plenty of premarital sex, or engaged in sex acts outside of vaginal sex, or committed adultery, or were divorced. etc.
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What does their behavior have to do with anything about anything?

CriticalThought said:
People like to interpret the Bible to suit their own prejudices and so the whole idea that the word "sodomite" is watered down is kind of ridiculous to me. Particularly since the Jewish interpretation of the story of Sodom has nothing to do with homosexuality but with inhospitality.
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You think the men of the city wanting to have sex with the two male visitors is merely an act of "inhospitality?"

CriticalThought said:
People are entitled to believe what they want but trying to reference the story of Sodom to dictate whether a scene of GANG RAPE is an example of homosexuality is kind of ridiculous in itself. I would think the RAPE might be more at issue but if people want to reference Leviticus to push their position I say go ahead but if you are wearing any polyester or eating any shell fish, you are kind of a hypocrite.
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Is it your contention that if the two men whom the men of the city were wanting to have sex had been agreeable to it that the men of the city would back off - i.e. that their only interest was in raping them?
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

Dragonfly said:
What exactly has biblical horse excrement have to do with same-sex marriage in the USofA????
Click to expand...

And your response to EdwinWillers because he chose to share his belief why he finds gay marriage wrong and you have no tolerance for that? Just like you and many posting in this thread had no tolerance for the Christian couple who in religious conscience couldn't provide a cake for a lesbian couple? And you wonder why there are number of people concerned that their rights to conscience will be taken from them? And that their argument is a stupid one? I think you have just given proof to all that there is a real concern with a number of folks like you so willing to trample others rights in order to get what you seek.
 
AGENT J said:
you keep repeating this failed line and yet have no examples, logic or facts that support you.

what consequence are you referring to?
Click to expand...

Everything I post is a failed line according to you.
I'm done with your nonsense.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

vesper said:
And your response to EdwinWillers because he chose to share his belief why he finds gay marriage wrong and you have no tolerance for that? Just like you and many posting in this thread had no tolerance for the Christian couple who in religious conscience couldn't provide a cake for a lesbian couple? And you wonder why there are number of people concerned that their rights to conscience will be taken from them? And that their argument is a stupid one? I think you have just given proof to all that there is a real concern with a number of folks like you so willing to trample others rights in order to get what you seek.
Click to expand...


Maye they should not have gone into the wedding cake business or formed a private club to skirt the law?
 
vesper said:
Everything I post is a failed line according to you.
I'm done with your nonsense.
Click to expand...
thats what i thought you got nothing

nope just the ones you present here, nice deflection though

since you cant defend your statments you are free to run away in defeat, have a good evening
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

vesper said:
You can not credit me with saying all homosexuals want to legalize adults having sex with minors. I just pointed to the connection of NAMBLA with homosexuality and the founder of the first gay rights movement had associations with NAMBLA.

I very much doubt that many straight people who support gay marriage are aware of that fact maybe it would matter to some and then again maybe not.
Click to expand...

1. A founder of the gay rights movement was associated with NAMBLA.
2. The gay rights movement supports same sex marriage.
3. People don't like NAMBLA.
4. Therefore, people should not support the gay rights movement or same sex marriage.

That is still an association fallacy. Do you actually not see how it is illogical? That is like me saying, "Hitler called himself a Christian, and I think if most believers realized that Hitler was a Christian, nobody would want to be a Christian." That is pretty weak.

Nor do I believe there are many who understand the consequences of trampling the rights of conscience of those who can not support gay marriage in the name of stomping out discrimination. When political appointed federal judges can do that hello Houston we have a problem.
Click to expand...

There are still churches in the South that will not marry interracial couples. Conflict between religious views and social progress is always going to occur.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

CriticalThought said:
There are still churches in the South that will not marry interracial couples. Conflict between religious views and social progress is always going to occur.
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yep you are 100% right
hell there are churches everywhere that wont marry nonreligious people or people not religious enough by their standards

its a complete strawman and fear tactic to suggest churches will be forced to do marriages.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

EdwinWillers said:
Actually, it doesn't. Neither does merely *saying* it does. There are a host of other sexual activities that describe behaviors other than specifically homosexual behavior at outside the will of God.

Contrary to what you might think, how you crap is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What does their behavior have to do with anything about anything?

You think the men of the city wanting to have sex with the two male visitors is merely an act of "inhospitality?"

Is it your contention that if the two men whom the men of the city were wanting to have sex had been agreeable to it that the men of the city would back off - i.e. that their only interest was in raping them?
Click to expand...

I am going to agree to disagree with you on it. As I said, it is irrelevant to me since I don't consider the story or Leviticus to be a basis on how I would conduct myself or how I would expect others to conduct themselves. If that is the basis for your views, then I wish you well.

As far as my personal view on it. God was going to destroy the city of Sodom no matter what because he made that decision before the whole rapey incident occurred and Lot could not even find 10 righteous men in the city in however many days God gave him to do so. And if Lot, a man who offered his daughters for rape, is to be considered the standard of righteousness in this story...well I can't say I'm as inclined to care as much as you are. Define "sodomy" however you want. In the end, we all get to answer for ourselves.
 
Re: On gay marriage, America's house may not stay divided for long

AGENT J said:
1.) people are weird they like thier fellow Americans having equal rights and not being discriminated again
2.) i saw a black nazi on jerry springer once too with a swastika tattoo so what, thats meaningless
3.) what risk lol why did we give minorities rights? women rights?
4.) no many people, not some want equality and to help end discrimination
5.) this is always true but thats meaningless true, rapist ant that to be legal, killers want that to be legal, child molesters want that legal. What does that have to do with equal rights for gays? nothing
6.) nope this is false unless of course you are talking about some other group that would be fighting for equal rights and end discrimination against them based on laws, rights and various constitutions.

any examples? i might support them too?
Click to expand...

1. There is no "right" to get married. For anybody. But don't act like you don't mind discrimination, you already posted that some types of marriage you are against.
2. No it's very important. Some people like to pretend, such as you, that everybody is on board with this. People of all types are not.
3. Behavior is not a skin tone or gender.
4. You don't want equality, you already posted against some types of marriage.
5. Don't mind me if I'm not dumb enough to take your word for it. There's been groups out there for years pushing for things besides two adults getting married.
6. It's completely true. You are an example. You said you saw nothing wrong with multiple wife's or something close to it.
 
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